[sanhestar]

@Does’ Leap 23808 wrote:

Sabine:

Do your dogs herd? If so, what livestock and which breed performs better (Aussies or ES)?

George

Hello,

our dogs herd, we have goats and do brush clearing in the summer in addition to the goatpacking.

I can’t really make the difference depending on breed. We have one Aussie, bred from herding lines that has a lot of instinct to herd but is too soft to be trained and then we have the little English “girl”, who has not so much instinct but more will and self-confidence to get the job done.

[sanhestar]

yes, they are re-imported and they have similar ancestors than the “original” British herding dogs – all being within the collie family.

These dogs left England in the 18th century with immigrants and the first kennel club was established in the middle of the 19th century.

[sanhestar]

@Ixy 23775 wrote:

Waddya know…I’m english and have never even heard of an ‘english shepherd’!? 😀 Perhaps they should be called american shepherds lol

You have to be on the lookout – there are two ES breeders in England and the number of English Shepherds is on the rise. Coming back to the homeland.

@Robert MoonShadow: it’s the other way around. The Border Collie is a rather “young” herding breed, the breeding for a lot of “eye” started in the late 18hundreds, when trialing became a thing you could earn money with. Before there were the collie type herding dogs with loose eye. F.e. the Welsh Sheepdog is such an old race, went almost extinct when the Border Collie “hype” started back then.

Almost all of the older herding breeds work with lose eye, I know of only the kelpie (descendent from the BC) that works with that much “eye”, too.

[sanhestar]

Hello,

we have Aussies and one English Shepherd.

I would recommend the English because finding an Aussie breeder that breeds dogs that still have these old traits is not that easy and Aussies – from what I know – are more expensive than English.

For Aussies, which can be more stubborn than English – English being smarter and more manipulative, I would recommend:

Jamie Burns – Cutn’Loose Aussies
Terry Martin – Slash V – strong dogs, bred to herd cattle mostly
Pine Creek Aussies
Las Rocosa – Jean Hartnagle has much knowledge about the “old” Aussie and is also active in the English Shepherd community

For English Shepherds

Linda McCall – very easy going dogs
Mary Peaslee

There’s a good mailing list on yahoo called working english shepherds

ES pups seems to be less expensive but more Aussie breeders to testing of before breeding (hips, eyes, genetic defects) than ES breeders (from what I learned while looking for an ES).

ES have less hereditary problems than Aussies but they too can have HD, MDR1 defects and some of the eye defects that can be found in all of the collie related breeds.

What type of stock to you want to herd?

[sanhestar]

Hello,

I would keep in mind, that a donkey, like a horse, needs a partner (herd animal).

If you say “breeding mares” I assume you mean mules. From what I heard, not every donkey stud will serves horses.

[sanhestar]

these two are gorgeous.

[sanhestar]

Hello,

regarding wheels:

for the middle eastern region it seems that the Hyksos where the first to use the wheel and also horse-drawn carriages. That’s what made them a superior military power at around 4000 B.C.

The Egyptians who where much more advanced in terms of education, architecture, society at that time still used logs or sleds to move loads.

[sanhestar]

glad you’re back.

[sanhestar]

we use Australian and English Shepherd for working with the goats. Everything’s going so much smoother and less stressful for everyone with the dogs.

[sanhestar]

also, with every shot you give you add to the thiomersal (quicksilver) and aluminium load in the body (both heavy metals). Some animals react allergic/sensitive to other adjuvants (antibiotics or formaldehyd) in the vaccine or to the vaccine itself (being foreign protein).

Every shot also “chews up” the body’s reserves on vitamin C and make it more succeptible to common ailments.

And to look at it from a homoeopathic/holistic view: you introduce pathogens to the body by bypassing all of the body’s immune defense systems (starting with skin, then mucosa, then lymph nodes) and therefore hit the immune system “where it lives”.

[sanhestar]

same in goats, and thanks for the link. The word I was searching for was homozygous 🙂

[sanhestar]

and speaking of horn strength: our horned goats out of horned/polled breedings have strong horns like the ones out of horned/horned breedings.

I can see a difference, though, in horn strength regarding to castration age and general heritage. The bucks I left intact for breeding for two years have longer horns than the ones castrated at 5-6 months. And form, shape and thickness of horns can be traced through the ancestry of the goats.

[sanhestar]

Vicki,

I’m not sure on that but then I can only speak for goats.

In goats the polled gene is also dominant but if you cross a polled with a horned goat you will get a percentage horned animals because you can’t breed goats that are 100% polled in heritage (these would be hermaphrodites and sexless). For polled goats to be able to breed they need to be 50% polled and 50% horned in their DNA (wish I knew the correct phrase in English).

I know that hermaphrodism from polled x polled breedings are no issue in cattle but as there sure will be some polled cows with mixed DNA, getting a horned out of polled x horned breeding should be possible.

[sanhestar]

Hello,

I used to introdruce our horses to fresh grass after the winter in steps of 15 minutes every day until I reached two hours (day one – 15, day 2 – 30, etc.), then I would leave them out for 4 hours for several days, then 8 and then free range. The first weeks on free range I would offer some straw to add roughage in addition.

[sanhestar]

Hello,

no experience in sunflower seeds for horses to gain weight but they are used in goats to give more energy but not more protein.

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