[Scott G]

@Rick Alger 10903 wrote:

Haven’t agreed on an exact price, but I expect it will be between $120 and $130 per thousand. Marked wood. Thirty to forty logs to the thousand.

$3-4 a stick. How many logs hour/day cut & skid in spruce are you thinking you’ll be able to average to the landing? I’m spoiled on pine; lot of limbing on spruce but it’s light, can you make up for it by really loading up each turn?
-Scott

[Scott G]

I’ve had yak, and it tastes pretty good! Sounds like a win/win to me…

[Scott G]

Dimensional mills (the ones that are left) are swamped with beetle kill. 2 million acres and growing exponentially! We are going to lose 98% of all the mature lodgepole in the State. Ponderosa is starting to get hit hard at lower elevations as well, soo.. glut of material with minimal milling capacity and hammered market for dimensional lumber. That said, one of the local post mill operators ran into my dad at the bank the other day and wanted to know why no one was bringing him any product. Great little P&P mill he has, I use to be his major supplier. The material he needs is in the 5″-8″d range, much smaller than most of the material flooding the market. Some of the best money I ever made was working post patches. Guess I better get busy…

[Scott G]

Please give Mike & Cammy our condolences. It is great that you are going to have a mill set up. Hopefully you can get some sticks cranked out for them as they start their journey to rebuild.

[Scott G]

VII. A PACIFIC NORTHWEST US EXAMPLE

It is instructive to see how all the above issues play out in an actual example. For our example, we have chosen a 10MWe biomass CHP plant serving a sawmill and a
100MWe stand alone facility, both located in the state of Oregon. Oregon was chosen as it is the largest producer of forest products in the U.S. and has active state incentive programs to support the installation of renewable energy facilities.

A side-by-side comparison of the two facilities is as follows:

Item 10MWeCHP 100MWe Stand Alone

Plant Design: 900 psig/900ºF stoker 1500 psig/950ºF fluidized
grate boiler bed boiler
Wet cooling tower Air cooled condenser
Electrostatic precipitator Baghouse
Urea injection/NOx Selective catalytic reduction/NOx
Zero water discharge

Steam Customer: Sawmill None
50,000 lb/hr steam
load@100 psig sat.

Interconnection: to local 69KV serving to 115KV trunk nearby,
sawmill through existing upgrades to nearest
substation, no off site 115KV/230KV substation
upgrades required

Utilities: Water supplied by sawmill City water
Wastewater disposed by sawmill

Ash Disposal: Local farm land spreading Local landfill

Fuel: Mill residuals 86% Mill residuals 11.5%
(incl. fuel now burned, but Local urban wood 6.5%
not chips)
Local forest slash 14% Local forest slash 4%
(from mill logging operations) Regional forest waste 78%
(25 mile additional haul)

Incentives: Federal Prod.Tax Credit (PTC) Federal PTC
Oregon Bus. Energy Tax Credit Oregon BETC
(BETC) (50% income tax credit
capped at $20MM)
Federal Combined Heat & Power –
Tax Credit (7% of investment as ITC,
year 1)
Enterprise Zone Designation –
(5 yr. Property tax elimination)
USDA Rural Devel.Grant USDA Rural Devel.Grant
($500K) ($500K)

VIII. EXAMPLE RESULTS

In both cases, a financial model was run to
force via power revenue an unlevered after tax return of 12%. Surprisingly, the busbar power price required to yield this return was a full $10/MWH lower in the case of the 10MWe CHP plant, or 13% lower, than the 100 MWe plant. If the plants had been financed, the difference would likely have become larger for the following reasons:

1. The much greater fuel risk for the larger plant would lead to a higher percent equity requirement. In the case of the smaller plant, all of the fuel is supplied by, or under the control of the mill host. In addition, the mill has withheld its paper chips from the power plant because of more lucrative markets elsewhere, but could be diverted to the power plant in the event of weather emergencies or market downturns as further fuel security.
2. Many rural locations have socioeconomic conditions that lead to designation as part of the federal New Market Tax Credit (NMTC) program. This program gives tax credits to lenders willing to lend in low income areas, but require a sponsoring organization with a capital allocation. One Oregon entity has $40 million remaining on its allocation, more than enough to fund the debt on the 10MWe plant at below market rates, but only a small fraction of the debt on the 100MWe plant.

3. Both these plants might qualify for a USDA federal loan guarantee, which will again lower interest rates. These loan guarantees have a maximum amount of $10 million, making the guarantee of far greater significance to the smaller plant.

IX.CONCLUSION

One conclusion that cannot be reached from this analysis is that the smaller plant will always be cheaper, since there is a degree of uniqueness to the jurisdiction chosen (OR). Other identified states that have similar size or dollar capped programs, however, include MD, SC, NM and GA. Also, participation in some programs may lower the value of other incentives, though these interferences will likely be taken up by Congress in 2009 with the intent of eliminating them.

Perhaps a more logical conclusion is that there is a unique optimum size for biomass in each location, that uses data on fuel availability and costs, potential steam hosts and available incentives to arrive at the lowest required busbar power cost. Most biomass size versus cost studies done to date have failed to recognize this.

X. ROLE FOR UTILITIES GOING FORWARD

If the above thesis is correct; that there is a unique biomass solution in each location, the final question is what role does the electric utility play in this development. Developing small, optimized, unique, disbursed biomass resources that aggregate to a substantial resource would not seem to play to the strengths of most larger utilities. Utilities are good at planning and building large central stations identified in their Integrated Resource Plans, and have all of the experts to support such an activity. Attempting to utilize this same approach for a 10 MWe biomass plant with a variable steam customer and multiple fuel sources, would likely sink the project with overhead costs.

Perhaps a better approach is to issue well crafted “biomass only” requests for proposal (RFP’s) that match in time the utilities needs for new firm generation and/or additional renewable power and carbon offsets. A sophisticated evaluation matrix should be employed that is able to screen out proposals that can never be financed, utilize unproven technology or that rely on unidentified resources. The utility can then offer the contracts that will make the projects work.

It is important that biomass projects be developed across a broad spectrum. Developed correctly, biomass power can:

1. Bring large amounts of carbon neutral, or even carbon negative (if you consider the alternate fates of the fuel utilized) power on line to displace fossil fuels.

or investor owned and2. Provide a displacement of fossil fuels in industrial/institutional heating or cooling applications.

3. Bring “end of line” reliability and voltage support to multiple rural locations.

4. Provide a firm source of renewable power with an availability and capacity factor to rival any coal or nuclear plant.

5. Provide new investment, employment and markets for rural farms and forests that have long needed an economic boost.

XI. BIOGRAPHY

William H. Carlson holds a BS (1969) in Mechanical Engineering from California Polytechnic State University. For many years he operated biomass, coal and gas-fired power plants for cooperative utilities, as well as for a large independent power producer. In 2003, he opened his own consulting firm offering biomass power development and technical services, primarily to forest products firms and independent power producers. His firm is also associated with Wellons, Inc., a supplier of turnkey biomass power facilities located in Vancouver, Washington. He is also the former Chairman of the Biomass Power Association and serves on the Boards of the California Biomass Energy Alliance, Western Governor’s Association Biomass Task Force and 25 X 25.

[Scott G]

Sounds like a great outfit & operation you have, Sara. Welcome!

[Scott G]

Geoff,

Yes, pulling down with horse(s), skidder, winch, etc.. Just be careful when doing this, especially if you are on the ground. When the top of the hanger comes out of the crown of the tree it is hung up on, the butt you are choked to can often shoot forward a pretty good distance and really fast. This scenario is especially true when the ground is frozen hard.

What Carl mentioned about felling the other tree is an option as well. I wasn’t going to mention it as a method as it is extremely dangerous, that said, I do it from time to time. Remember that as you’re putting the felling cut on that tree more often than not the hanger is directly above your head and as soon as the second tree starts to go it comes down fast! If you are not extremely heads up and have a damn good escape route you are in serious jeopardy of being post driven; end of story…

[Scott G]

Pull it down with a choker by the butt or walk it down with a saw. Jason’s last segment on RH did a good demo on pulling down a hanger.

[Scott G]

Forgot to mention doubling up and stacking, definitely. Another option that I forgot to mention are rifled wedges. They are really handy for stacking as they don’t go sideways and the technique is the same as Carl mentioned for doubles; pound one and then the other. The only issue I’ve had with them is that they are almost too soft. Those might be your cold weather option, Rick. As far as getting them locally it is tough to get anything other than the hard, brittle ones peddled by the saw manufacturer’s. Go with Madsen’s or Bailey’s and they’ll have them to your doorstep in a jiffy.

What Jason mentioned that the small ones can be harder than the large ones can definitely be true. I can side bore down to 8″d and have a hinge & latch to work with and side wedge but less than that and tall with a back lean can be problematic. Something that I have found that works fairly well is what we refer to as a quarter cut. Face cut, come in from the back as in a traditional cut to your hinge width but only make the initial backcut in half of the backside. You can then place a small wedge in that kerf, set it, then go to the other side and CAREFULLY cut the other quarter, give the wedge a couple of good smacks and you’re in business. If I could figure out how to put a sketch on this thread it would be a lot easier to understand.

As far as timber jacks, felling levers, and other gee whiz devices I have no need or desire to haul that much luggage into the woods. Just more unecessary, expensive things for me to lose. If it can’t hang on my wedge pouch belt it is a hinderance. A felling axe for thumping wedges or a sledge back at the truck if I know I’m going to have to get really serious is all I need. If it is really a problem tree with bad potential if something goes wrong (i.e. power line, building, etc..) I’ll throw on the spikes and harness and put a tip line in the crown. I’ve also used a poorman’s Silvey tree jack (a.k.a. bottle jack) for serious back leaners that are in the huge category.

Take care,
Scott

[Scott G]

Rick,

I got one a several years ago to try out for post & pole material and I don’t like them. The Scandanavians’ like them. Smaller material they are cumbersome and larger material you lose the added compression advantage as you have when your tapping wedges. I wouldn’t even come close to trusting a felling lever on a fairly large stem.

There are definitely good wedges and poor wedges. The hard, brittle plastic ones (usually red) that are marketed, i.e. by Stihl and others I hate. They have a real tendency to spit out when you’re driving them. My favorite wedges by far are Black Bear and those with steel heads and a shallow insert. Softer plastic that works better, especially in cold weather and you can lift the world by being able to pound on the steel cap. The insert is shallow enough so that you don’t rock your chain. You could get these from either Madsen’s or Bailey’s.

Take care,
Scott

[Scott G]

Yeah Joel, waking up and hearing nothin’ but quiet is not a good thing when you’re packing. I’ve definitely had to go hunting horses many a morning even with the best laid plans. Guess that’s why they called us wranglers…..

[Scott G]

Coming in late on this one, but my thoughts for what they are worth. Having horses trained to come when you call is a standard that needs to be achieved. If they know they are going to experience a reward during initial training it is pretty easy if they are not showing a dominant attitude over you. In my background, a majority of which was backcountry use, having a difficult to catch string was not an option. Would usuallly picket out one dominant riding horse, hang a bell on the dominant mare (hence the term “bell mare”) and turn them loose. Now when I say backcountry I mean it. Some camps I worked were ~30miles from the nearest trail head; chasing down your horses was not an attractive option in the middle of a million acres without a fence in site. So at a minimum, being able to approach a horse without you getting nothing but a spectacular view of the south end isn’t much fun…

As far as whips, I seldom carry them as they are a royal pain to keep with you. The exception, as I mentioned on a previous thread, is for training and reinforcement. Whip is a misnomer as I NEVER beat them with it. If things are going badly one quick, brisk tap is usually all it takes. More often it is used for a poke to obtain pressure to get things moving in the direction I want to go. All of that said, I would have to respectfully disagree with Carl, at least for most of the horses I’ve worked with. If a short whip, quirt, or switch has been used with that animal before, they know what it is. Regardless if it is tucked through my belt loop and into my back pocket where they can see it slightly over my shoulder, or I cut an aspen or willow switch if things aren’t going well. They know that I have it and I receive a whole new level of attention, even without that switch/quirt/whip touching them. The response I give them always suits the situation depending on their behavior. From just having it to poking for pressure to a light tap to a not so light tap. But as I said, I rarely even have one with me as for 98% of the issues don’t require it.

Take care,
Scott

[Scott G]

Jason,
In this world where all emphasis by so many is put on quarterly returns; one has to take this with a grain of salt. As Will Rogers said of investment in land “they aren’t making any more of it” the same could be said for forests. This economic downturn will eventually change, one way or another, and demand will once again return. Our human population will continue to grow exponentially, wether we like it or not, and demand for natural resources will soar. Sound forest management, both ecologically and otherwise, will become paramount. Wood products will become more scarce and demand will soar as well as value. My biggest concern is that forested ecosystems remain intact, fragmentation is kept in check, and that the shifting paradigm of global awareness prevails. We will probably all be fertilizer by the time we get there, but forest products will become valued for what they are truly worth.

My thoughts…..

Scott

[Scott G]

Ronnie,
The link below is all I have. Maybe Simon or a member of the BHL can weigh in since this picture came from the Brits
Take care,
Scott
http://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/website/fcpiclib.nsf/Images/68DEB4C3223CF4798025731500742FFE?OpenDocument

[Scott G]

In case this gets buried on the Sustainable Forestry category. Make note of e-mailing me directly to get the file due to the inability to post an .xls here

“Fellow Draft Animal Powered Forestry Practioners,

This is an update on the progress of the formative focus group’s collaborative process to launch our new effort. It has been decided to:

-Start with a networking/newsletter effort both in e-copy & hard copy form to reach out to fellow practitioners on an International basis. The end goal, however, is an established organization.

-Be all inclusive for all types of draft animal extraction (horse, mule, oxen, etc..)

-Develop an extensive contact list from which can work from and network with.

At the present we are narrowing down our 1)Name, 2)Mission Statement, & 3) Primary Goals.

Once we have developed & implemented our formative process we will open the effort to all. As always, however, comments, suggestions and insight are welcome.

Next task, we need to start developing our contact list. This will be a contact list that will allow us to start pulling together all of our fellow draft powered forestry practitioners, wherever they may be. In the absence of being able to attach an .xls file to this thread, please contact me at horselogger@gmail.com to obtain it. I will then do an automatic reply with the file attached. Please enter the required information following the example of my listing in the first row. When you are finished, e-mail the completed form to me at horselogger@gmail.com with the file extension changed slightly for ease of file organization on my end. For example, change the file name from to something that includes your initials .

Please enter information for every draft powered forestry practitioner you know, contact them to have them add to the list folks they know. E-mail is a priority if they have it as that is the most efficient way of distributing initial information. Mailing address is important as well. Please do not enter incomplete addresses as they do us no good. For International folks please include a complete post address that I could put in the mail and it would find you. For those furry critters (I know 2!) that only crawl out of the woods on rare occassions and use a general delivery at a post office that will work. The take home idea is that whatever we put in the mail will find them. We are not collecting phone numbers at this time for privacy concerns but will forward that option to listed members at a later date. For those of you that do not have computers that support Microsoft Excel send the info in a format that will work for you. The less info I receive in other formats is that much less that I have to re-enter by hand, however.

Thanks for everyone’s help, this effort will be what we make of it and depends on everyone’s support & input.

Take care,
Scott
__________________
Scott Golden
TimberHorse Forestry
Bellvue, Colorado
horselogger@gmail.com “

[Author]

Posts