[Steven Q]

Hi Brad,
Yes, it’s not just you, I found prices significantly higher than 2 years ago, had a good load of Red Oak/Ash that I did well on. Hard Maple is very much in demand in these parts and it seems they are paying well.
The problem right now and how it was explained to me, is that so many people went out of business during the recession that it will take years for the related infastructure to recuperate. I don’t know about your area but I almost lost everything this winter with a couple loads of logs on the landing and couldn’t find a truck to get them to the mill to get the bills paid. Had to sell the logs to whatever mill could get a truck to pick them up, still did alright.
Looks like prices will be on the rise for the next while and until supply can meet demand there will be a premium.

That’s how it was explained to me and it makes some sense.
Steve

[Steven Q]

Have been cutting with a 576XP for 3+years, no issues. Replaced muffler as the bolts worked loose. And did have some cracking in the plastic, no fault of the saw, cutting partner dropped a tree on it. Would buy another one when needed.

[Steven Q]

I have worked in tight cedar like you are describing, although never worked on 3″ poles.

What we did, was use a single horse, cut the butt flush so that the tree would lean up in the opposite direction of the skid trail, hook the horse to pull it down, de-limb and buck to size. Would usually take half dozen or so skids than you could pretty much let the horse go solo just follow to un-hook and verbally correct.

Its not about falling them, just leaning them correctly, if you lean it in the wrong direction you’ll lose lots of time, when everything goes well it is very efficient. Would usually cut the next butt before skidding the previous one out.

It was quite enjoyable working a single in the cedar and I look forward to doing again.

Steve

[Steven Q]

Jl,

One of the drawbacks to pure Bio-diesel is that it gels in the cold temperatures, to make it work they mix it with conventional diesel, usually 80% conventional to 20%bio around here.

If I had access to fryer grease I could use that instead of growing crop seed, but I don’t, not that I have looked for any, but I figure that it is pretty sought after these days, as there must be some value to it.

[Steven Q]

Thanks Ben, Andy,

Definitely worth more research as to how quantities to make it viable, I would like to think that it could be used in the tractor/forwarder, but the gelling issue in the winter would make that less possible unless mixed with conventional diesel.

That said, using the biodiesel in other areas to make it worthwhile doing would be very possible, vehicles in the summer, heating oil, power a sawmill, firewood processor etc..

I guess just the point of being completely independent of outside fossil fuels, while increasing the efficiency of a horse drawn operation is the key to me.

Steve

[Steven Q]

So with that in mind, I’d say we might be onto something bigger here, biodiesel powered forecarts and farm oriented processing systems. I think there is an opportunity here to be efficient, yet independent of the petro chemical companies.

The processing doesn’t seem to expensive, you can buy a ready made processor for a pretty penny or build one for much cheaper, I have some engineering friends, I actually contacted one months ago to see what she thought about the idea, but never really followed through with pitching it to her, thought maybe it was a bit too big of process to make sense, but if that small an area could produce that much bio-diesel, it is very feasible.

Still having a bit of trouble picturing the inputs, basically the footprint of a very small house, could produce enough biodiesel to run a forecart to bale 100 bales. got it .

I guess it’s a go, will have to get a diesel powered forecart, plant some crops, build a processor, produce the biodiesel.

When did driving a team get so complicated?

[Steven Q]

Andy,

Thanks you very much for that explanation, makes a lot more sense to me now. If you had been in my mind while I read that you would have seen the light bulbs go on! Now you have done it, another tool to put on the list to get. Just in the process of picking up a New Holland 477. 7′ haybine, I think that would work pretty well behind a powered forecart. I still might look at the HD ground drive forecart to see if that would be up to the task.

Don, I know what you mean, I used mixed power in the woodlot in the winters, horses to skid, tractor and forwarding trailer to get to the landing. I’d way rather just use the horses, but the types of cuts(80% firewood) I do depend on production and being as efficient as possible. If the other option were to cut down the volume coming out and do a more high grade type cut, I wouldn’t be doing it at all.

Steve

 

[Steven Q]

Thanks Nearhorse,

Good to know that the waste product is not really a waste product and that would help offset the cost of growing etc. Any infrastructure investment would have to be seen as a long term investment to be paid by the use of limiting off farm fuels. As well the waste meal could also reduce off farm feed etc.

Still not clear on the volume of raw seed that would be required to produce bio-diesel and have not been able to find that information, I realize it would depend entirely on the type and quality of the seed being used, but there has to be a range or rough estimate.

In regards to powered forecarts, I have not always seen the point, I mean if you are running on fossil fuels, and don’t have religious limitations, why not just use a tractor? I though you could produce those fuels on farm, it in my mind makes the scenario a bit more logical.

3000lb/35%=1050lbs of oil? Is the math that simple? I guess refining the oil would reduce the final product as well? Like I said I am no rocket scientist.

Steve

 

[Steven Q]

Eli,

On your setting up a still and running your forecart on a homebrew, have you ever considered Bio-diesel, I have considered it, but that is about as far as I got to thinking about it. Seems at first like a good idea, all the fuel needed could be produced on farm etc.. if you ever ran short of bio diesel you could run regular diesel.

The things I don’t know in regards to feasibility are what volume of crops to produce biodiesel would be necessary, I mean if all you could grow would be rapeseed to produce biodiesel to run your forecart, that would be a bit ridiculous, but if you could grow a section of rapeseed to produce enough biodiesel to run you forecart everything you need it for than it is worth looking into.

I am not a chemist, but have been told that producing biodiesel is not rocket science and very doable.

Steve

[Steven Q]

I learned the trade in a mixed use situation, so that is what I have come to understand. Forwarding trails, twitch to a landing with the team, forwarding take it to a main landing. I find it very efficient and able to move quite a lot of wood, while staying on the forwarding trail reduces impact.

Was at the harness shop last week, talking to the Amish fellow about my operation, as I recently acquire a small forwarding trailer to increase what I can do, he laughed and said I was cheating. I guess in some respect yes, but without being able to make it worthwhile, I can’t be doing it for nothing. My two cuts have been mostly firewood, with some sawlogs coming out. So volume is what is paying, Still relatively new to this, been working at it for 3-4 years, small steps ahead.

I was able to buy the trailer outright, if I had to make payments there is no way I would have moved ahead with it, I figured it was a long term investment, enabling me towards the point that I could go full-time seasonally. Currently I am mostly going on the weekend, luckily the two contracts I have been able to get are right across the road from my farm, again I got pretty lucky on those.

I already had a small 4wd tractor 50hp and that lil bugger will pull a decent load as long as it can get it’s traction, will be upgrading chains next year though, trailer holds about 2 cords @ 16 foot logs and has a 14’boom, that can lift some decent logs. I am a one man operation mostly, really speeds up production having a second man running it, although it is new enough that the few times I have had a second man out, slowed me down as I was getting him familiar with the machine and my personal ethics on using in the woodlots.

Hopefully the time will come that I need to upgrade to a full on forwarder, but I think with the tractor(multi use), trailer and my team, we are on the right path. Weather or not some see it as cheating is beyond my control. For what I need it works.

[Steven Q]

Depending on wether you are working on a job, or working on training. If I were working on a job, I wouldn’t be asking them to back that far, it would take a bit too much time as you can see.

Rather, I would drive them until their noses were over top of the hitching point on the log, ask them to haw or gee around, hitch them and go. Understanding you are in the training point as well, there would be a pretty good pause between the hitching and going. My one mare loves working, I’ll drive her to the log, spin her around and we don’t go anywhere until she is calm and relaxed. She gets fired up and I’d way rather her stay in her head.

I also start my horses on ridiculously small logs, just to build their confidence, as well to understand how they are going to take larger loads. The logs in your video look like pretty good sized logs, probably bucked as short as you can without ruining them, maybe you could try hooking to different sized loads, so they get the idea that not every load is going to a heavy load.

Just a couple thoughts, be safe. Be overly generous with your praise as well.
Steve

[Steven Q]

I had a lot of Hickory in the harvest I was working on over the winter, was able to find a catering company that will buy a lot, for smoking pork. Didn’t make a lot more than firewood prices, but saved labor on splitting it. Also found that mushroom growers are looking for Oak logs in 3ft lengths, up to about 8 inches in diameter, again sold for firewood prices but saved labor.

I have been looking at doing my own mushrooms, seems like a small investment of time and money, but could yield decent returns. Selling chipped hickory would be good as well, but I am not currently set up for any kind of retail, would be ok if I found a place that would display and sell on consignment.

[Steven Q]

Has anyone looked at Lowline Angus? Looks like a good idea on smaller acreage.
http://www.canadianlowline.com/beef.html

[Steven Q]

Thanks for the suggestions, I will keep those in mind for the future, I will have to put a $3500. spreader onto the wants list, near the top of the needs list is a spreader within budget which is pitiful right now.

Basically, I see two options, spreader 1 is the Cockshut, the seller had some reservations regarding the apron strength and cow manure. Priced at $300.00, could be a steal or it could be junk. The owner said he still uses it,but has two.

The second being a McCormick, it is at a dealer and has been for awhile so should be negotiable, the starting price was $1600.00, it is down to $975.00, not sure how much lower it could go.

Has anyone got any insights on these spreaders? Will likely invest in a good spreader in the next couple years or so, just things are tight right now.

Thanks again for you insight.
Steve

[Steven Q]

Depends on what you have planned, I was starting out GREEN, bought the Draft Horse Handbook and Training Teamsters/Training Horses books and found them to be very informative. Would not say they are enough to go it alone, but coupled with a good mentor or two they have definitely helped along the way. I am not exactly a book guy, but will go to them as a reference from time to time as well.

Steve

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