any effective non chemical wormers

[jac]

Any ideas out there for a way to worm horses without Ivermectin.or similar? I plan to use my “hen tractor” in the horse paddocks and the residual wormer in the horse droppings are a concern..
John

[Joshua Kingsley]

I have been told by several older guys to use chewing Tabacco..
Joshua

[CharlyBonifaz]

and the residual wormer in the horse droppings are a concern..

can you shut in your horses for 2 days after deworming? after that your hens should be ok
next idea: may be ask your vet for a dewormer that contains the same stuff as dewormer for hens….
“other” dewormers still lack definite trials as to their efficiency
ps: is nicotin ok in hens?? 😮

[jac]

Why is it the simplest ideas are always the last ones I think of 😀 Sometimes I think I over complicate my life.. thank you for your replies on this…
John

[OldKat]

Still a valid question though, jac. Ivermectin WILL kill dung beetles, so I am looking for alternatives as well. Also, I am concerned because it seems like in our area the ONLY thing people are using is Ivermectin so I am concerned about resistance in the target parasites.

[jac]

I know what you mean OldKat.. Roundup and ivermectine and modern agriculture has it sorted…NOT !!. But it just goes to show how easy it is to get on that bandwagon and how hard it is to get off again. All these modern products seemed like a good idea but now the resistance issue is becoming apparant in all aspects of our lives..antibiotics is another… I hadnt given the humble dung beetle a thought in this.. just the earth worm. Would the collected droppings of 5 Clydes for 3 days with wormer present in my manure pile cause problems for the worm activity for example ? I have to admit im at the bottom of my curve to a sustainable life for my family and animals but even taking small steps opens up a multitude of questions at each step …
John

[CharlyBonifaz]

why not find out, if they have worms to begin with? couple or three samples of their droppings coming up negative and there is a chance they might be without or only with a little worm burden …over here current recommendations are to deworm aggressively, but only when there is a major worm burden
sidenote:
Streptomyces avermitilis is a groundorganism producing Avermectin/Doramectin (naturally); yes, it is still toxic for dungbeetles (dose! as always 😉 ); during summertime dung/soil mixtures will degrade half of their ivomec content within 2 weeks, during winter conditions it will take 3-9 months 🙁

[jac]

Hi Charlie.. been doing a worm count with our vet and have it down to twice a year but still with ivomec/dectamax. I had no idea it took so long to degrade in the soil. These issues might seem trivial but I think often of the long term residual build up of poison in both humans and animals.. I keep telling myself that the huge super markets could not operate without food addatives and preservatives because of the stupid distances they move food about.. Im drifting off the topic:D starting to rant again….
John

[Michel Boulay]

What did they do 40 years ago?? Somebody told me once that a slab of poplar nailed to the fence, the horse chewing the bark off of it will not have worms:confused: Is there any truth to all this or is it small talk?
Like you said Jac that residual build up in everything and everyone, how far can we go??

Mike

[mitchmaine]

hey john, i’ve been looking in the organic practices manual here and find 3 pages to do with manure and compost handling, with one mention of animal health care products not telling me much. the tube of ivem. has no list of inert ingrediants but i guess i can get a list somewhere? you brought up a thought i’d never had, and now it’s starting to trouble me. my sacred, honored manure and compost piles are looking like toxic waste dumps to me now. what’s worse is i trade milking chores with a dairy neighbor for cow manure (he likes massive amounts of chicken layer waste) and who knows whats in that? actually i do know. so my gold mine looks like a pile of ****. our chicks go out on pasture every day to do their rototilling, so…..keep us posted and i’ll try to do some digging (no pun intended) too. mitch

[sanhestar]

I tried several herbal wormers about 6-7 years back. Did a fecal exam before using the wormer, wormed the animals and retested them again 2 weeks later.

The only substance that showed an effect to drive the wormload to minimal resp. non-detectable was the homoeopathic remedy Abrotanum D3. Not sure if it’s available in the US.

Using it to be effective is rather time consuming, though. You have to give it 3 times daily for 10-14 days.

[J-L]

jac, we’ve been using something called Cattlactive this spring for a variety of things, mostly sickness in calves. It’s an herbal type of thing and my brother, who raises quarter horses, uses it as a horse wormer. You might visit their website for more info. Seems to work for us and people are surprised at it’s effectiveness as a horse wormer.

[clayfoot-sandyman]

I don’t have horses but cattle and sheep and have used with some success the remedies of Juliette de Bairacli Levy in her book ‘Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable’ – it’s an absolute classic first written in 1952, and still in print today.
She has 3 pages dedicated to worms in horses. Won’t go into all of it but will relate this bit which I’ve tried in a similar way (as a drench) on my sheep and cattle with success….
“For mild cases of worms in horses and foals, garlic treatment given morning and evening is generally sufficient. Merely add three to four grated roots of garlic [she means wild garlic, if unavailable substitute with 3 – 4 individual cloves] to a mash of bran and molasses, continuing the treatment for several weeks….”
The downside of herbal treatments….generally it ain’t ONE SHOT, you have to build their effectiveness up.
I was recently treating a ewe with mastitis with compresses made from Docks (atlast a use for Docks!). After a week of it I realised why everyone was so happy when the ‘quick-fix drugs’ came in! But equally we compromise the animals resilience and vitality by relying too heavily on the chemicals.

[jac]

It does seem that all the older methods were swept away with the quick fix convinence of the modern way. but now the down sides are being made more obvious with the residual poisons and parasitic resistance, which I think will cause problems before long.
John

[mitchmaine]

hey john, i was always a chewing tobacco wormer, it always worked well in plug form, and probably still does. when molly got ill this winter with some “critter”, i put the ivermectin to her, and it worked so well it killed every living organism in her, good or bad. i’m wondering about pro-biotics, or replacing the good bugs. i started giving her some yogurt in her grain and she likes it well enough, but don’t know how much to give or if it’s even doing her any good. any thought. thanks, mitch

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