For possible sub group and phone number for Lancek

[lancek]

AHH! But this is what I have been talking about, the smaller machine along with the horses be it tractor or the machine that I showed would work wonders! Now makeing a horse drawn machine that can fill the shoes of both would be our opptemal goal and I dont see other than the gross load capacity of a horse drawn wagon why we couldnt achive this.
In my oppinion a horse drawen forwarder with a loader and maybe wheel assist would allow us to compeat with more logging frims and still pratice good resoritive forest pratices! This would allow us allso to accecpt more jobs because we would be able to compleat jobs quiker. I allso belive that a net work such as the draftwood ass. would allow us to market our wood products to the world. This past few months I have ben reserching ways of uitiliseing wood that is not generly accepted on the open market and allso ways of useing shorter log leagths so as to generate more marketable and higher priced material from each job and have come to the conclusion that it can be done! The biggest problem for foks to take us serious is that most feel that a small indavidual company can not produce enough to satisfy there needs or the distance from your yard to there opperation is to far so a coop of smaller compaines would be able to meet these demands and make everybody money!Lancek
Now I will post a picture of one of my jobs and in another thred I will explain how I made mony off this job!

[simon lenihan]

lancek,
It is possible to build a bigger horsedrawn forwarder, fit a crane capable of handling 4000lb and connect the hydraulics to drive motors in the back wheels to assist the horses. In order to do this everything would have to be built heavy duty and ultimately it would weigh alot more, you would need more horses to pull it and it would cost alot more fuel to run it. In big timber alot of markets want longer lengths, 24 to 30 feet which a forwarder cannot handle, i think we should be looking at developing methods of moving these larger lengths where maybe total suspension is the answer.
simon lenihan

[Carl Russell]

As much as I support and use the combo job, it is also important to point out that when we use machinery to compete with machinery we set our selves up to continuing to compete with machinery.

The long skid adds cost to the harvest. If we address that by employing machinery, then the access will always require machinery. If we look at this as an opportunity for the landowner to turn some of that cost into an invest by making long term capital improvements to roads and landings, then we can help to set the property up to be more approachable with animals.

The added cost of using a machine in a combo harvest leaves the site with the machine. The cost of building roads stays with the land into perpetuity, reducing skidding costs, and thereby increasing stumpage values. Road investment is also amortized over long periods of time, making the payback spread out over several harvests, and the value of the road will remain with the land, and will contribute to resale value.

This can not address every operation, but it is an example of the difference in forest management strategy that I see as crucial to the continued success of animal powered timber harvest. This way animals can continue to be a viable option on a property managed like this.

Roads are excellent avenues to increase landowner involvement in multiple uses, such as sugaring, fuelwood harvest, agri-forestry, etc., which is a great way to strengthen the connection between the forest managing operation and the LO. When a LO is excited about what is happening now, as well as what can happen in the future, then they make investment not only in the land, but in the relationship with whoever will be doing the work.

I know it isn’t always that simple. Just thought it would add to the discussion.

Carl

[Gabe Ayers]

Wow, this is another great thread woodsmen.

I will add a few thoughts. The integrated systems (machines and animals) should be used by all of us that are committed to animal powered extraction to increase our production, competitiveness, safety and efficiency at producing the products we can use to generate income to make a living at this work. There are specific applications of integrated systems that are usually defined by the topography, volume of wood, size and weight of wood, available from the sites we are working on.

There is definitely a need to design and manufacture horse drawn forwarders that will handle heavier hardwood species and lengths that allow marketing for maximum value. These machines could be designed to have the hydraulic motors to assist in pulling the load (Simon), as well as all load carrying wheeled braking to hold the loads back on downhill hauling. The flotation tires with grip treads on the drive and carrying wheels would be great. A device of this nature would be heavier and more for the animals to move in any condition, but this additional weight would not be beyond the capacity of most stout logging horses, oxen or mules. If one needed some more power, just add some work stock to the team or simply make smaller loads and more trips. We often have pulled our trucks into the job as the first effort for two teams and once loaded, out of the job as the last effort of the day.

This group could help with the development of such tools for our collective use, but it will not be affordable if we use the normal manufacturers that look for a high profit margin to take on a new line of equipment. We may have to research this among our membership.

Roads

Most of the sites we work in already have clear evidence of roads and trails from previous extraction – for an experienced woodsman to observe. It is often a matter of clearing these old skid tails and opening them up for use in this harvest rotation. So in these case we have no need to build new roads, just use the ones already there. We find that in most cases these roads are designed quite well in relation to the landscape topography, because if they aren’t designed well, what used to be a road or skid trail would now be a gully or highly eroded area. Most of our landscape is mountainous or hilly to say the least and or predecessors were truly doing this for a living and the ability to work consistently meant they would put their roads on the backbone of the ridges so they drained well and water didn’t follow their disturbance down the hill and become so muddy that they couldn’t use them daily. It was just common sense for them because the had to keep working to eat, so they didn’t skid in the confluence or where the water naturally will run off.

The criticism of animal powered harvesting noted by most conventional foresters is often about the limited skid distances that we generally work (500 feet or less). This criticism is hard to reconcile with the reality of the forestland being now owned by more and more people in smaller and smaller tracts. This trend is amazing and will not stop anytime soon. These smaller tracts also have some of the best timber currently available and we are the niche harvesting system that can access it for several reasons.

I have written about this many times and probably somewhere on this site before. Here is a quick run down on the demographics or relationship between people and land ownership conditions.

In 1999 52% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 40 acres or less owned by private individuals.
In 2007 71% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 10 acres or less owned by private individuals.

So now – the dominant forested landscape condition is in smaller tracts that are not available to mechanized harvesting for two main reasons. First the landowner won’t allow it to be clear cut or high graded, second the mechanized operations can’t afford to move from site to site without taking all the timber available to pay the expense of moving big equipment around.

It should be noted that the collection of this data was not to support our approach, but to express concern that the sawmills (primary processors) would run out of material to keep the largest industry in the state running – if they didn’t find a way to access this raw material. I was alerted to the study by a rare forester that supports animal powered techniques. We use it often to defend our work to educate and develop more Biological Woodsmen.

Back to roads – roads are expensive to build and require machinery cost also.
On most smaller tracts they are not necessary and as mentioned are often already there, just grown over with regenerating forest species, all removable by hand with a chain saw. Roads and skid trail construction by mechanized operations in Va. are the number one source of “non source point pollution” in the form of sedimentation into the watershed. Roads are also the heavy disturbance that leads alien invasive botanical species into the inner forested conditions. Examples in our region are many, Japanese Ladder Grass, Garlic Mustard, Alanthus, Oriental bittersweet, honey suckle, multi-flora rose, Autumn Olive and on and on. So the point is that light disturbance is the best way to battle disturbance dependent species, now and in the future.

We usually only use machines to create landing areas and culverts to access an improved road. Upon completion of the restorative forestry harvest rotation the landings are seeded to be wildlife clearings. These plantings are with native species that provide seed for native birds and deer.

My point is that if you don’t have to build a road don’t build one, I suspect Carl agrees, but the fact is, that these considerations are always site specific and the best decisions are made by informed land managers. I agree that one of the great challenges is to get the landowner to connect with their resources and this is something HHFF works on by educating landowners about “Special Forest Products”, or the New Age Logger stuff Rick calls mushrooms, botanical products, herbs, roots, etc. The point here is that the better connected to the landscape the landowner is, the more valuable our services will be to them now and in the future.

Using smaller sized equipment often fits with what was done in the past. Most larger jobs (over 50 acres) we work on have haul roads already in place that were used with smaller trucks, 1-2 ton size single axle dual rear wheeled trucks that were loaded in the woods often from a pit dug that would allow the truck to be backed into the pit or against a bank and logs rolled onto the bed for hauling to the improved road or sawmill which was on site. These folks must have worked around weather conditions on what is called a seasonal basis. They only hauled when it was dry or frozen. There is much to be learned by what has been done in the past. Most logging in the Appalachians as late as 30 years ago was all on site processing or a sawmill on site that produced rough lumber to be sold into the furniture industry, usually locally or within 50 miles hauling distance. Those days are gone. We don’t have small furniture industries in every little southern town that will buy your lumber off the truck and write you a check on the spot. We have devolved our forest products systems to a system of brokers that are the proverbial middlemen that take your lumber on consignment and sell it to fabricators or kiln dry operators and then pay the producer at a later time rewarded by a reduced price when paid for in 60-90 days. Meanwhile the producer still has to pay their operating expenses until that lumber is paid for. So this system by it’s nature requires much more operating capital to even participate. It seems to have lead to centralized milling operations that supplies by small producers that haul their logs to them and take what they will give for the raw logs. All of this development in the forest products industry is related to cheap intensive energy (OIL), which ain’t going to ever be as cheap as it has been.

This discussion could lead to the decentralized approach of on site processing or what is called value adding forest products. Maybe that will become a later thread as this group works to help each other make the most money for the best care of the forest. It all must be interdependent, interconnected and profitable for the ground level workers in order to create bottom up change. That is what HHFF has worked toward for over a decade and will contribute to this effort in any way possible.

Thanks for reading all these long post and please let me know what you think.

The DRAFTWOOD community “green” certified forest products approach will surly become a part of this discussion at some point and we look forward to sharing all of what we are doing.

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

Wow, this is another great thread woodsmen.

I will add a few thoughts. The integrated systems (machines and animals) should be used by all of us that are committed to animal powered extraction to increase our production, competitiveness, safety and efficiency at producing the products we can use to generate income to make a living at this work. There are specific applications of integrated systems that are usually defined by the topography, volume of wood, size and weight of wood, available from the sites we are working on.

There is definitely a need to design and manufacture horse drawn forwarders that will handle heavier hardwood species and lengths that allow marketing for maximum value. These machines could be designed to have the hydraulic motors to assist in pulling the load (Simon), as well as all load carrying wheeled braking to hold the loads back on downhill hauling. The flotation tires with grip treads on the drive and carrying wheels would be great. A device of this nature would be heavier and more for the animals to move in any condition, but this additional weight would not be beyond the capacity of most stout logging horses, oxen or mules. If one needed some more power, just add some work stock to the team or simply make smaller loads and more trips. We often have pulled our trucks into the job as the first effort for two teams and once loaded, out of the job as the last effort of the day.

This group could help with the development of such tools for our collective use, but it will not be affordable if we use the normal manufacturers that look for a high profit margin to take on a new line of equipment. We may have to research this among our membership.

Roads

Most of the sites we work in already have clear evidence of roads and trails from previous extraction – for an experienced woodsman to observe. It is often a matter of clearing these old skid tails and opening them up for use in this harvest rotation. So in these case we have no need to build new roads, just use the ones already there. We find that in most cases these roads are designed quite well in relation to the landscape topography, because if they aren’t designed well, what used to be a road or skid trail would now be a gully or highly eroded area. Most of our landscape is mountainous or hilly to say the least and or predecessors were truly doing this for a living and the ability to work consistently meant they would put their roads on the backbone of the ridges so they drained well and water didn’t follow their disturbance down the hill and become so muddy that they couldn’t use them daily. It was just common sense for them because the had to keep working to eat, so they didn’t skid in the confluence or where the water naturally will run off.

The criticism of animal powered harvesting noted by most conventional foresters is often about the limited skid distances that we generally work (500 feet or less). This criticism is hard to reconcile with the reality of the forestland being now owned by more and more people in smaller and smaller tracts. This trend is amazing and will not stop anytime soon. These smaller tracts also have some of the best timber currently available and we are the niche harvesting system that can access it for several reasons.

I have written about this many times and probably somewhere on this site before. Here is a quick run down on the demographics or relationship between people and land ownership conditions.

In 1999 52% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 40 acres or less owned by private individuals.
In 2007 71% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 10 acres or less owned by private individuals.

So now – the dominant forested landscape condition is in smaller tracts that are not available to mechanized harvesting for two main reasons. First the landowner won’t allow it to be clear cut or high graded, second the mechanized operations can’t afford to move from site to site without taking all the timber available to pay the expense of moving big equipment around.

It should be noted that the collection of this data was not to support our approach, but to express concern that the sawmills (primary processors) would run out of material to keep the largest industry in the state running – if they didn’t find a way to access this raw material. I was alerted to the study by a rare forester that supports animal powered techniques. We use it often to defend our work to educate and develop more Biological Woodsmen.

Back to roads – roads are expensive to build and require machinery cost also.
On most smaller tracts they are not necessary and as mentioned are often already there, just grown over with regenerating forest species, all removable by hand with a chain saw. Roads and skid trail construction by mechanized operations in Va. are the number one source of “non source point pollution” in the form of sedimentation into the watershed. Roads are also the heavy disturbance that leads alien invasive botanical species into the inner forested conditions. Examples in our region are many, Japanese Ladder Grass, Garlic Mustard, Alanthus, Oriental bittersweet, honey suckle, multi-flora rose, Autumn Olive and on and on. So the point is that light disturbance is the best way to battle disturbance dependent species, now and in the future.

We usually only use machines to create landing areas and culverts to access an improved road. Upon completion of the restorative forestry harvest rotation the landings are seeded to be wildlife clearings. These plantings are with native species that provide seed for native birds and deer.

My point is that if you don’t have to build a road don’t build one, I suspect Carl agrees, but the fact is, that these considerations are always site specific and the best decisions are made by informed land managers. I agree that one of the great challenges is to get the landowner to connect with their resources and this is something HHFF works on by educating landowners about “Special Forest Products”, or the New Age Logger stuff Rick calls mushrooms, botanical products, herbs, roots, etc. The point here is that the better connected to the landscape the landowner is, the more valuable our services will be to them now and in the future.

Using smaller sized equipment often fits with what was done in the past. Most larger jobs (over 50 acres) we work on have haul roads already in place that were used with smaller trucks, 1-2 ton size single axle dual rear wheeled trucks that were loaded in the woods often from a pit dug that would allow the truck to be backed into the pit or against a bank and logs rolled onto the bed for hauling to the improved road or sawmill which was on site. These folks must have worked around weather conditions on what is called a seasonal basis. They only hauled when it was dry or frozen. There is much to be learned by what has been done in the past. Most logging in the Appalachians as late as 30 years ago was all on site processing or a sawmill on site that produced rough lumber to be sold into the furniture industry, usually locally or within 50 miles hauling distance. Those days are gone. We don’t have small furniture industries in every little southern town that will buy your lumber off the truck and write you a check on the spot. We have devolved our forest products systems to a system of brokers that are the proverbial middlemen that take your lumber on consignment and sell it to fabricators or kiln dry operators and then pay the producer at a later time rewarded by a reduced price when paid for in 60-90 days. Meanwhile the producer still has to pay their operating expenses until that lumber is paid for. So this system by it’s nature requires much more operating capital to even participate. It seems to have lead to centralized milling operations that supplies by small producers that haul their logs to them and take what they will give for the raw logs. All of this development in the forest products industry is related to cheap intensive energy (OIL), which ain’t going to ever be as cheap as it has been.

This discussion could lead to the decentralized approach of on site processing or what is called value adding forest products. Maybe that will become a later thread as this group works to help each other make the most money for the best care of the forest. It all must be interdependent, interconnected and profitable for the ground level workers in order to create bottom up change. That is what HHFF has worked toward for over a decade and will contribute to this effort in any way possible.

Thanks for reading all these long post and please let me know what you think.

The DRAFTWOOD community “green” certified forest products approach will surly become a part of this discussion at some point and we look forward to sharing all of what we are doing.

Sincerely,

[lancek]

As I had stated before I would explain what I had done with the wood on the seven acre track! We started off with a over growen strip mining pit that they had extracted coal from , the ridges were full of mature trees and the coal seams full of new generation trees! The stand was primainly white oak and red oak. We removed the older trees wich had a lot of stump rot down to a 16″ dbh all though that is a little smaller than I usaly like to go it had to be done because of the stump rot! We prossesed the venner logs form these trees and the no 1 logs to a log buyer that was shipping them over seas! The total value of this material was 3500.00 ruffly 1.75 per foot average we then proceded to mill the rest of the lumber into board and the cants went to rail road ties The crooked and smaller trees along with most of the tops were produced into flooring stile and rail material and squares by just flitch sawing and gang ripping to size! All total we uittilised 83% of the timber we took down!
Now this opperation was one of those that the stars alind on and everything went perfect. The markets were there and the most inportant part was the land owner was willing to wait for his mony untill everything was said and done But he was rewarded for his waiting by realizeing a 247% increase in proffits to the amount of money that he was offered for it standing by a so called forester! as jason has writen here many times before and related in his last therd that a value added approch will increase proffits and by banding together as an orgainisation we can show that we are not some sort of fly by night opperation and that we are a stable ennity that can be trusted! And you dont have to have a whole lot of equipment to do this you just need to find the local people with the proper equipment and share the welth because by kocking out the middleman as much as possable you will have enough extra money in the mix to pay some one else a nice poffit to do the work for you and not have the tax or employ headaches!
This will also prove to the land owner that inprovments on roads and other enhaceing efforts will be worth while in the end even on larger tracts!
And jason that was what I was getting at that by devloping a horse drawn forwarder form inside our orgginisation would allow us to sell it to our practicaners and then open it up to the public as a money generating tool for the orginisation Lancek

[Gabe Ayers]

Maybe LanceK Tim will start manufacturing heavy duty horse drawn forwarders…. I would like to have one…

Great story, just exactly what we all could do with a little planning and market development.

According to the USDA there is $30 of finished product in every $1.00 of raw hardwood log value. Our aim is to capture as much of that $29 that we can and share it fairly with our LO and community value adding support system.
Keep more of the money in the community were the resources are extracted from and create a constituency for the best care of the source – forests.
This is ‘treeroots’ community sustainable development and common sense.

[Rick Alger]

Well done Lancek. Good of you to share.

[Carl Russell]

Reading Jason’s post about roads made me realize that there is a potential difficulty in all forest management. Most loggers and foresters are not landowners. When considering the construction of access roads it is important to understand the forest from the stand point of the landowner. As loggers, or even foresters, we are typically interested in making the job functional and affordable so that we can complete the necessary work. Per the current discussion this often comes down to possibly purchasing equipment that we can add to our asset list, that will allow us to take on certain types of work.

The part of the equation that is of interest to me as a forest land owner (which I am) is the cost to me that the harvesting operation requires to remove my timber. Other than stem quality, the primary cost that affects stumpage value is harvesting access. In the case of animal powered timber harvesting, that is often reflected in actual added financial burden that is subtracted from the mill value of timber, and therefore affecting stumpage. In mechanized operations it is often reflected in impact caused by large all-terrain vehicles traveling all over the land. It is also reflected in the silviculture, harvesting higher volumes per acre to make each trip more cost effective.

(This touches on one of the most misinformed understandings of low-impact forestry. The more often the woods are worked in, with light thinnings, the less actual impact there is. Light regular harvests allow wildlife to continue their travel, breeding, and feeding habits, and they cause less direct damage to soils, and allow for constant review and maintenance. Conversely treating the forest heavily and leaving it for 25+ years before re-entry is extremely disruptive and impactive.)

As a forest land owner every dollar that is spent on harvesting my timber is money that I want for my own. In many typical situations this leads to operators providing inferior harvesting services. But when considering ways to reduce logging costs, access roads are extremely valuable and cost effective. By access roads I am not referring to skid roads and dirt track truck roads where a skidder is needed to haul in the truck, and two to haul them out. I am talking about solid gravel based, crowned, ditched and culverted, 4 season roads.

There is no doubt that these roads are costly, but as I stated before, these costs are spread out over many years, and they are an asset that I can attribute to the improvement of my forest land. Log trucks will not charge me the extra $25/MBF to drive 3/4 mile into my woods that a harvesting system will. So right off the top I have gained $25/MBF on all the timber accessed by that road.

I have also developed a system that allows me to use draft animals, or even small equipment, providing me with autonomy so that the value of my timber is not dependant on the services of someone who has made the investment in equipment that I have no use for. Also these roads can be used by me or anyone that I choose, for a wide variety of uses including on-site milling, recreation, fuelwood cutting, etc., which also put the expense into broader categories than just timber harvest.

Draft animal powered forestry in my mind must be about more than skidding logs with horses. I see real change coming from stewardship and land-use ethics. Landowners who get an animal powered logging job today facilitated by equipment, can just as easily decide to have machinery to do the entire job in the future. However, landowners who are educated to understand the limitations of draft animals, and undertake the types of investments like access roads, will be providing future owners and future operators with the advantages that will not only make the harvesting more affordable and functional, it will also ensure higher stumpage values.

As a forestland owner, forester, and a horse logger, most of my business has really been about educating landowners about how to manage their property to facilitate the use of draft animals. Many of my clients in fact do a lot of the work on their own land. Several of them with draft animals.

In the long run, just focusing on training and outfitting animal-powered timber harvesters will not be enough. We need to realize that landowners are the key to sustainable land-use. True, many landowners are clueless, and probably will never get it, but good work on these lands has limited longterm value without buy-in from the ones who control the resource through ownership.

Conversely, if we also see that there can be significant progress made by helping landowners to implement stratigies that can help them begin to use draft animals, and to actually do the work in their own woods, we will support our intiative through cultural example. I realize that there is a need to help non-landowning draft animal powered timber harvesters, but my true obcession is in changing land-use and stewardship patterns by educating landowners to do the work them selves.

This is not a treatise against forwarders (horse-drawn or otherwise), or equipment in general, it is just an advancement of what I consider to be a serious component to the discussion. As many have pointed out before, it usually comes down to dollars. If we do as the masses do, and work out short term fixes that avoid large improvement costs, then we also avoid discussions of long term returns on the value of those investments.

Having access that facilitates low-impact harvest also supports many other activities such as non-commercial Timber Stand Improvement. By making it more affordable to harvest lower volumes per acre, then the low grade products don’t have to be taken(tail with the hide) to increase production. Residual stocking is higher, and crop tree release can be performed in a much more surgical manner. These types of activities also increase average stumpage per acre.

Seeing the land as a landowner does, with an eye toward true income versus expenses, will be the key to a sustainable effort. People may want horses on their land, or they may not, depending on current cultural preferences, but if they are taught to endorse the type of forestry and land management that not only facilitates animal use, but also highlights the value of such methods, and can see the true longterm finacial benefits, then they will embrace them into perpetuity.

I agree that land ownership patterns are leaning toward smaller lots where these access issues are not as much concern. I do not build roads like this on every lot. On the other hand I have skidded logs on sleds as far as a half mile downhill, and as far as 1500 feet uphill on snow. I see the investment in equipment as problematic. One way or the other it will affect my operation, by adding cost.

The other part of the equation is that if the landowner bares the cost of the access, then I don’t have to create a capital heavy enterprise that at some point will compromise the way I work. By limiting myself to horses and oxen, using sleds and carts, I perpetuate limitations that translate into the type of timber harvest that I can afford to operate, and that I want to partake in. It is only limited by how well I educate the people I work for. When I need better access I don’t have to buy, or hire, a big piece of equipment, I just get the landowner to build a road.

Carl

[simon lenihan]

Carl,
over here when the forest owner builds new roads we the horseloggers seem to lose out. We lose out because the advantage of difficult acess is now lost, the forest is now open to all harvesting systems. Trees that probably should not be cut are now cut to build a new road, it creates a wind tunnel resulting in alot of windblow. One of the reasons foresters are slow in using horseloggers is all down to extraction distances, they are slow to use our services if the distance exceeds 200 meters. This is why wheeled equipment was developed in scandinavia during the early 80s so as to keep pace with the advent of modern machinery. It was not the ideal solution but it did keep horselogging ticking over in these countries and it also opened up new work as with this new equipment it meant longer extraction distances could be covered. The finnish forestry divison did a time and motion study of the horse drawn forwarder that we use on a site outside helsinki, tree species was birch, average extraction distance was 465 meters, daily production 65 cubic meters. No roads were built, it was a complete selection thinning, 20 to 25% more trees would have to be taken had it been done by machines, where ever a skid cart and team of horses can get through so can these horse drawn forwarders. i personaly think that we should be looking at methods of not only extracting with horse drawn forwarders but also of using other wheeled equipment to move longer and heavier lengths from the forest
simon lenihan

[TaylorJohnson]

One of my post I put up on the first page of this thread is missing ?

These are good discussions we are having on here. Every one is making good points and I think that is a point in its self. There are certain things that will be adjusted for each region/ area we are working in. We are all going to be dealing with people with different incomes and budgets for these projects. Also each area will have there own attitudes about what we do. The more we can bounce ideas off of each other the better it is . We have the best product on the market by far and these discussions are going to help us all bring this product / service to the public. The more they know about use the more they will want use. Taylor Johnson

[Gabe Ayers]

DAPFI –

Here is a cut copy paste of an email exchange with Jason Cruse the Kiwi Horselogger in New Zealand.

The point in posting is that the development of markets for services and goods can be differentiated through defining what you are doing yourself. There are currently no other interest groups that will help us folks, so enjoy being on your own… it presents the independence that we all crave and may make the most of, yet share with others, in this case down on the opposite side of the globe, outreach indeed. For the good of the forests….. I will

cut, copy, paste of my email thread with Jason Cruse “Kiwi Horselogger” below:

Thanks mate the draughtwoods going good logged 1 log cabin i will send you some photos when i get round to taking some.I have a sawmill who specializes in supplying timber for eco houses who will take care of saw milling and marketing the timber i need to concentrate on logging for now.Draughtwood with be a product name for anyone selling low impact timber in NZ.My company will be called draft works. i have had so much positive feed back its overwhelming hope to be full time in the new year.We have just finished a heath and safety plan for horse logging in NZ which is quite a mission over here OSH or occupational health and safety are very strict and there has been no professional horse loggers here for a long time.But all done now next big job starts on the 28th of December and that is western red cedar for department of conservation they let someone have a go with a skidder 3 years ago and they made a hell of a mess so we will so perfect opportunity to promote what we are all about.Any way mate thanks again
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 3:26 AM, Jason Rutledge wrote:

I don’t know the contact for that company either, I just heard about the hydraulic drive wheels system recently. Post something on http://www.draftanimalpower.com web site and see if someone knows.

I think Peach Lane Harness Shop in Pa. will ship to you. They don’t have interenet, but a phone number. They do make D-Ring and are exculsively nylon.

I would ask both questions on DAP.

Good to hear from you mate, how is the DRAUGHTWOOD product development project going?

Salute,

Jason Rutledge

---

Original Message

---

From: jason cruse
To: Jason Rutledge
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: down under thunder

Hello Jason hope all is well with you and your family i was just wondering if you had some web addresses for horse drawn fowarders iv tried to find m&s jumentum but have been unsuccessful i like the sound of them because of the drive motors on the rear wheels.I thought you may know someone who has one.I am in the process of building the log arch i down loaded off your web site i need it for my next job have about a 300 mtr pull.also i was wondering if you could advise on a good harness maker that would send harness to NZ i have some leather harness but was after some nylon gear probaly a d ring set.Thanks again mate for your time

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 11:27 AM, jason cruse wrote:

Sure mate sounds good. Jason Cruse 42 brett road rd3 rotorua New Zealand post code 3073

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Jason Rutledge wrote:

Jason,

Could you send me a regular mailing address so we can put you on the International Animal Powered Forestry Associations mailing list, if you are interested.

Jason Rutledge

jason cruse wrote:

Hello Jason i was thinking about what you said about naming our product and was wondering if you would mind if i called it NZ DRAUGHTWOOD.If i could use what you are doing over there as a guideline for what I’m doing here it would be a huge advantage but i wouldn’t do it without your approval.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Jason Rutledge > wrote:

Jason,

Make up a name for your product that defines it as being from
horse logging and sell your services based on that superior
sourcing method. You may see what we do with the DRAFTWOOD brand
at: http://www.draftwood.com <http://www.draftwood.com/>

Glad you are working mate.

Jason Rutledge
http://healingharvestforestfoundation.org
<http://healingharvestforestfoundation.org/>

jason cruse wrote:

Hey Jason how are ya mate just thought i’d let you know I’m
logging douglas fir at the moment for a log cabin that will be
the ranger station in the new yogi bear movie. the guy who is
building it from NZ log homes contacted me as he thinks horse
drawn logs will work in well with his methods
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:38 PM, jason cruse

>>

wrote:

Yea i knew i should have used the sled but it would have
taken me
20 minutes to go and get it and i was short on time and I’m an
impatient son of a bitch.The bit i use came with the Samson
logging harness i found over here but i will look into a
level bit
probably be good investment that was not the first fence
destroying episode Ive had with that horse but man can he pull
logs.I have contacted Rien a couple of times and hope to
catch up
with him at some time he would be priceless in reinforcing my
ramblings about modern horse logging with the forest company’s
over here as i don’t have professor in front of my name.He
sounds
like a good man and i look forward meeting him thank again for
your advice.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Jason Rutledge

>> wrote:

Well, if they have legs they will run….. especially
if they
haven’t worked for a while and another prey animal displays
fear and flight. It just makes sense for any prey animal to
run away when another prey animal does the same. I am
glad you
guys are not hurt and that you have plenty of work in
front of
you.

Maybe next time you can put a sled or something behind the
horse that is going out for the first work in a while.
I don’t
like free rolling stock, it is to easy to run away
with. Are
you using a level bit on your horses? We only use that
bit and
adjust it according to the response to the bit. Some don’t
need much leverage and others have to have a serious
signal in
their mouth to slow down or stop.

Did you ever get in touch with the professor Rien
Visser over
there?

Good to hear from you mate, stay in touch.

Jason Rutledge

[Author]

Posts