Interest in educational webinars or videos

[Andy Carson]

No matter how we slice it, I think we are swimming upstream to some extent. The overwhelming trend in online discussion forums is that they are completely free, they contain people that nearly never meet, and they collect information instead of generating it. I think we have already bucked this trend to some extent, and I am not sure if what trends we will buck in the future. I think a lot depends on if we can “do” anything in the real world that is meaningful to a lot of people.

I am not convinced that overall visibility of the site is a problem. What evidence do you have that this is a problem? Google searches bring interested people here quickly. With over 3/4 of the population online and google being the dominant seacrh engine, this is a huge amount of visibility to me. I do not think that a low number of DAP.org members means interested people are not aware. The site always has a large number of people viewing forums, but only a small percentage of these becomes a DAP.com member and fewer yet are converted to donating DAP.org members. I think that this is demonstrably a problem, and is clear by looking at the numbers rather than simply speculating.

I think that if we want more people to join, we need to supply something meaningful to a large number of people. This something meaningful must be in addition to what is already provided or people will say “I already have this.” I do not believe that ONLY holding in person events in Vermont (the second least populated state in the USA) is going to provide that meaningful content to a large number of people. Online videos can be accessed by everyone and might provide that meaningful content to a lot of people who are distant. I do not think this is a “slamdunk” from the point of view of converting “lurkers” to members, but I think is might work. It would certainly work for me.

[Jim Ostergard]

This discussion has gotten me to think on a few of the ways I use and collect information. I really enjoy looking up various horse videos on you tube but some get frustrated by their selection when I enter a phrase. I find most of these interesting and will on a few occasions mark them so I can check them out again. On DAPnet I will often copy and paste a discussion into a document I then store and at some point print out to read and ponder. For that is a major benefit of belonging to the site. Now, I have access to a half hour video that shows logging hauling operations in Scandinavia from ground twitching up to use of a forwarding wagon. Over the years I have used it as a reference as each time I view it some idea on how to rig or build some gear presents itself. Maybe something like that made up as a trailer and then offer it as a perk for joining with maybe a bit extra to cover costs. Then we get something educational out there to all but for those interested they may be willing to ante up. Just some thoughts.

[near horse]

Great idea. I did try to participate in a webinar once and used up all my download for that day in pretty short order (200MB). I have watched the some of the Cornell small farming videos (including Donn’s place) — very well done and are on Youtube.

Jim – where is the Scandanavian video?

We probably should think about how to group/store/library these when we do it.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 37911 wrote:

I am not convinced that overall visibility of the site is a problem. What evidence do you have that this is a problem? Google searches bring interested people here quickly. With over 3/4 of the population online and google being the dominant seacrh engine, this is a huge amount of visibility to me. I do not think that a low number of DAP.org members means interested people are not aware. The site always has a large number of people viewing forums, but only a small percentage of these becomes a DAP.com member and fewer yet are converted to donating DAP.org members. I think that this is demonstrably a problem, and is clear by looking at the numbers rather than simply speculating.

I was referring more specifically to videos. There are many horse, ox, logging, etc videos on YouTube with many thousands of views. One of my videos has over 50000. When I look at the source of those views I see that more than 90% were directed to the video from related YouTube searches, not directed from DAPNet. Does this mean that there are 50000 folks really interested in what I am doing? Of course not. But I can also see that there are a certain fraction that watched it more than once, so they probably have a little more interest. So this tells me that there is more potential for using videos to bring new folks in than in expecting them to find DAPNet and then find the desired content.

It is also linked to the fact that folks don’t always type in the best key words, or that they discover new ideas and concepts that they were not aware of just through the process of looking around (at videos). I think YouTube is pretty good at matching content in that way.

This is different from the free-rider problem. If we want to stop the free-riders we will have to upgrade the web site to restrict access of certain content to supporting members. That brings on another set of problems. This is sort of like NPR. They have been trying to get over the free-rider hump since day one and I am quite certain the vast majority of listeners still do not support it financially. But like I said, that is a different problem.

[Andy Carson]

I am discussing the two issues (free riders and video) together because I see video as the enhanced content that might only be accessible to members that have paid something to support the video content. Videos are expensive and time consuming and will bring a sincere need for additional money.

You can look at the viewership of your videos a couple of ways, Tim. I agree that if the idea was to get as many people as possible to see the video, simply posting on YouTube would be the way to go. 50,000 views is a lot! But even if 5% came from DAP.com, that’s 2500 views. That’s a huge number for our small organization. With this large of a pool, each individual wouldn’t have to pay much to pay for the video production costs. That’s the idea.

[gwpoky]

Would be very interested, great idea.

[Jim Ostergard]

Geoff,
Sorry to say the video is not for the public at this time. A friend of mine in Sweden made it (or sourced the pieces) and I am hopeful I can get enough information from him so it could be shared in some way to the advantage of DAPnet.

[Billy Anderson]

Being green to working horses for draft i have spent hours reading older posts on here, which i came across via google. Then after meeting john (Jac) and speaking to simon Lenihan, I realised that being from overseas i can still get involved in this community and became a member. Along with the reading and watching videos via youtube i am slowly piecing info together but video posted are vague and miss detail and trying to visualize descriptions of posts can go a bit over my head unless backed with a picture.
There is a shortage of horsemen local to me experienced in working the land with horses, so the forum has been a godsend for information and help. I think this idea you have suggested would be great. Information at hand you could go back to time and time again for help and re-freshing the memeory

[fogish]

Just an idea here, more bang for your buck as far as videos: Make videos that cover threads with high post and view counts. We know there is interest in those areas and for a lot of people being able to read it and then having the chance to see it put into practice in a video would help immensely. Sometimes you get confused by the description or there is not enough info to make the connection or leap. As a personal example I was searching for info on D-Ring harness and came across one that Donn Hewes had started where he was converting old harness into D-Ring, it covered parts, sizing, attachment and fitting. The photos in the thread are gone now, but I would pay to see a video that contained the information involved in that process.

[Carl Russell]

This website already has the capacity to restrict viewers that don’t meet certain criteria. No upgrade needed. You could start a DAPNet members only category right now…..

I caution against the idea that creating something special will automatically mean more likelihood for increased membership and associated income. Membership, like sponsorship and donations, needs to be cultivated. Making videos may require more sponsorship than it could generate in membership dues anyway.

I think that there is a lot that can be done right now to get more people to join DAPNet, just by being more direct and clear about the value of what is being made available currently.

I also think that as Rick pointed out the quality control issue brings up a few points for me. One is how many topics are we going to be able to claim expertise in, and if by so doing, do we alienate folks who have good stuff to offer. Also if we make a concerted effort to sort through the currently available content, on You Tube for example, and have a clear dedicated area where these links are available on DAP.com, then not only do we provide the service of sorting and cataloging, but we also can enhance our value to the presenters by expanding their exposure to a targeted audience.

As Tim says the interaction around important topics is what is valuable to us, so maybe the first productions could be of panel discussions with noted presenters and an audience asking questions about a topic that they all have experience with. Jason Rutledge put out such a video a few years back featuring himself, Wendell Berry, and Troy Firth. I found it to be pretty interesting.

I’m with Geoff about the webinars. While I like the idea, our bandwidth just can’t support it, so I am much more attracted to written discussion, or traveling to an event in person.

One of the values of the web in my mind is the ability to tie together a series of resources that exist independently simply by linking to their whereabouts. I was dreaming of creating an indexed library on DAP.org that would link photos of events with presenters and equipment depicted, to articles, websites, videos, and other related links. Someone could see a picture of Jay Bailey on a Forest Manufacturing log cart with Suffolk horses, and they would be able to follow links to Fair Winds Farm, or to the library to see an article written about him or someone in his family, or they could watch a video of the FM log cart being used during a NEAPFD……..the possibilities are endless really….. and currently available to DAPNet administrators/BOD.

There is a lot of information out there in our network right now that could be drawn together, saving folks a lot of time searching. That was the germ that sprouted into NEAPFD and DAPNet……….

Carl

[fogish]

In my first statement I didn’t mean to say that we should block video posts from individual members, we should keep those coming, they add a lot. When I mentioned the DAPNet stamp of approval I meant it covering videos that may or may not be directly sponsored or made by DAPNet. Just something that has been reviewed by and the content has been approved, DAPNet stands behind the information contained in the video. At the NEAPFD is DAPNet vouching for presenters or just saying “Here is a group of people with information”? Carl you do make a very good point, something like this could take us down the path of “We know best” and possibly cut down on the number of submissions to the site.

A way to have a panel with a discussion including people asking questions is using a live broadcasting service which includes a live text chat. UStream.tv and Justin.tv provide this service, I have a lead on few others that may provide the same . My wife and I use this for a 24 hour foaling camera and we put on small educational classes 2 times a week during this time. Viewers can ask us questions in the chat which we then answer and interact with them. The limitation is all the people on camera have to be in the same place and the video is broadcast to anyone in the world, I have to look at the situation regarding the service’s display of advertisements as well. It is nice in that you use only one internet connection to upload the video and it can also be recorded for those who missed the live broadcast. The viewer and chat can also be embedded on the DAP.com site so that they don’t have to leave to go anywhere else to view it.

What other options would you like for a webinar, what do you envision or think of when you say webinar? I may be able to find something simple that would work for us.

[Carl Russell]

@fogish 37927 wrote:

….. At the NEAPFD is DAPNet vouching for presenters or just saying “Here is a group of people with information”? ……

Never vouched for anybody. It was all about connecting people to choose and decide for themselves. We did preliminary research, to verify some level of competence, but let the attendees determine validity. That’s why we held so many panels. It really never was about content, just connections…… you folks built the content once the connections were facilitated.

I think it would be pretty cool if I could just step out and harness my horses to answer a question about the D-ring. I mean I know I can do that now, and I do to some extent, but it could be a pretty interesting interface to have a mix of text based discussion with video replay……

We can already do that to some degree, by linking or inserting pics or vids, but having a category set up so that someone could tell that the thread was more interactive could be important.

Maybe we should go through an existing thread looking for opportunities where video demonstration or discussion could enhance it, then make those clips and insert them. It seems like it could be hard to have these always in real time, like a webinar, because sometimes it’s days or weeks before a motivating post, or question, comes along………

Carl

[Tim Harrigan]

That is a good idea. I think videos are a great addition and an under-used resource on DAPNet, but they have limitations. If we can identify the right balance we would really have an effective process in place.

[Carl Russell]

Tim and Andy, are either, or both, of you administrators on this site yet? I know that administrators can edit any posts, and that would include inserting pictures and video. We may be able to modify some our current threads using existing You Tube vids to experiment….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I realize that DAP.com doesn’t have any current sponsor, but if this site were to generate more income to offset the time of administration, an Administrator could monitor a thread and when needed contact a poster to see if they have, or know of, pics or vids that could help them speak to the topic. By using Admin status larger files could be uploaded, or videos could be made on demand, or links to other online resources could be shared as the thread develops……Once modified such threads could be put in their own category.

In this case the Administrator would be more like an editor of a magazine than a housekeeper. It would require more time, hence compensation, but it could make this site much more interactive, in real time, and therefore more vital, and again more likely to be supported financially by folks who find it valuable…..

Like public radio this site can be supported more by sponsorship and donations rather than by membership.

I would be inclined to keep this site free to the public, not restricting access to any content. Rather restrict to paying DAPNet members only things like profile signatures, or advertising (if it ever get to that), or increased capacity for uploading pics and attachments. And there could be a category highlighting links or services etc offered by DAPNet members only, clearly viewable by everyone, but only accessible for posting by those who are paying members. No one uses it now, but this site has a blog area, this could be limited to DAPNet members only.

In other words, grow the content on this site, and make it available to as many folks as possible, but limit the ability to use the connectivity of this site to DAPNet members only. It would require some overview from Admin, but most of what I described above can be done easily in the admin panel by creating filters for certain user groups…

Just mind running wild….:eek:

Carl

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