DAPNET Forums Archive › Forums › Equipment Category › Equipment › Mower Eveners and Safety
- This topic has 14 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 3 months ago by Brad Johnson.
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- August 7, 2014 at 1:11 pm #83845Does’ LeapParticipant
Had a near wreck a few months back when mowing. Kristan was mowing first cut while I happened to be cutting downed branches the fell in to our meadow over the winter. One of the pins on the single tree sheared launching the single tree into the back of the horses legs. He jumped, turned inside out (no control with the lines), and stopped. Our other horse remained still. I was luckily there to help untangle things. I went back to the barn and replaced the evener with a heavy duty logging evener and we mowed for the rest of the day.
I am finally getting around to replacing all the pins/rivets on the eveners of both of my mowers. Below are some pictures of pins that came off the mower with the intact evener with maybe an 1/8″ of steel left. Also pictured is the wear on the bar that connects the single and double trees. I re-drilled all holes to accept 1/2″ bolts and nuts and welded the nuts to the bolts and replaced the flat bar connecting the single and double trees.
Stay safe!
George
August 9, 2014 at 6:05 am #83873Donn HewesKeymasterHi George, Thanks for that reminder. I have broken a few of those pins myself. I was not sure why you said there was no control with the lines, but the animals will certainly jump. Braking a wooden neck yoke, or tongue can be just as interesting. The worst thing about the pins is “out of sight – out of mind”. recently I have been buying evener for other mowers from master equipment. They are really nice folded steel (not heavy logging) and affordable. I think I have used about four on my own equipment this year!
August 9, 2014 at 3:51 pm #83874Does’ LeapParticipantYes Donn, out of sight out of mind. Been trying to get better about checking that sort of thing. I have also broken several poles and a neck yoke. Bottom line is that stuff brakes. However, the stakes are much higher when working with horses. Kristan had no control of lines b/c the horse who got whacked by the single tree turned inside out.
Stay safe.
George
PS Both pins in the above picture were equally worn. The angle is slightly off on the top pin.
August 9, 2014 at 6:21 pm #83875Donn HewesKeymasterHi George, The more I thought about it the more I can see how that would happen. I am glad it didn’t turn into a worse event. Folks often focus on how to prevent something from happening; turning inside out, a line breaks, and evener brakes, there are lots of ways to for our teams to get tangled or out of our hands. While working to prevent it from happening is important (like maintaining our eveners!) It is equally important to know how to handle these situations when they arise; because they will even with the best prevention. A quick quite move to the horses heads is what keeps us in control when the lines are no longer working. Congrats to Kristan for keeping it a non event.
August 9, 2014 at 6:42 pm #83876Mark CowdreyParticipantGeorge,
Thanks for bringing up an important issue. If the evener those pins came off is the style i think it is, where you have to hook the trace chain to the hook behind the single tree and then the hook pivots around (if that is close to clear), I never liked that kind, always found them awkward to hitch when using a neckyoke. I have been using one recently on a scoot (w/o pole) and I will check it.
As far as the turning inside out… I use a butt rope. Even on a pole. Not staying it would have prevented your horse going inside out but it is definitely another line of defense. I don’t know why it isn’t a standard part of the harness. I don’t find it inconvenient in the least. I burns me that they are not permitted at the fair obstacle course competitions and are actually referred to as “cheater straps”. It gives a legitimate safety feature a bad rap. Go figure.
MarkAugust 10, 2014 at 6:01 am #83877Donn HewesKeymasterHi Mark, One of the first things I thought of was a butt rope when George mentioned that. While I don’t use one regularly it sure seems funny that the fair would be against them. As Doc Hammill suggests you really need a butt rope that goes all the way around the horses from hames to hames, otherwise if you just take a short strap and connect the britchens together the horse may well have just pulled it’s harness off.
I don’t regularly use them, as I find working without them it is simply a matter of training the horses to move over without it. I would rather do that in the beginning than use the butt strap forever. While they aren’t a huge inconvenience they also don’t prepare horses for working in hitches of three, four or eight.
For me they have limited use as a safety tool because the only real hazard they prevent usually occurs while they are not hooked to anything and can be easily managed with teamster training. When horses begin to spread apart folks must understand that asking them to stop is not good enough. The act of moving forward will realign them for you, and trying to stand still or backing will just allow the spreading to continue.
Occasionally I will put one on a youngster if I am spending so much effort getting it to move over, that I can’t teach it anything else. Usually by working single long enough before going into a team, I can start most youngsters without it. Having said all that I have nothing against them. They can certainly be a useful tool and I will encourage folks to use them if it helps them stay on the right track.
When fairs make choices like that, they are not really focused on the long range goal of having folks successfully working these animals on new farms and forests.
August 10, 2014 at 8:36 am #83878Does’ LeapParticipantI regularly use a butt rope. I started with one that went from hame to hame per Doc’s recommendation but eventually started using one that connects via the inside britchen rings for convenience. The butt rope broke during this incident however, so I did not do much to help me. Had I been connected hame to hame it might have made a difference. What system do you used Mark?
Donn, even though it did not help in this case, I do not agree that the only use is when they are not hooked to something. As my case illustrates, there are several equipment failures that can happen while hooked during which a butt rope might help – failure of the evener, single tree, trace chain, tug, among them. I have broken several wooden eveners before switching to all steel for example.
I am often reminded that b/c it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it can’t or won’t happen. The trick for me is identifying vulnerable aspects of my set up while getting on with the work at hand.
George
August 10, 2014 at 9:24 am #83879Mark CowdreyParticipantDonn,
Everyone’s situation & management style and program is different. I appreciate your even handed discussion of pros & cons.
I know from previous discussions that you use a variety of horses in a variety of configurations. I use a team almost exclusively, I leave my lines on the harness, I use each horse on the same side all the time. I also work alone pretty much all the time, I am 60, and there is usually no one else even on the property. Hence my belt and suspenders approach. Consequently it is no big deal for me to leave the butt rope on the near horses harness when not hitched and employ it regularly.George,
My setup is a bit of a hybrid. I never liked the connecting the inside britchen rings as when I saw it in use it seemed to be pulling at the harness in an awkward way, fanning the inside of the britchen away from the horse before pressure is applied. WHEN USING A D-RING HARNESS, connecting the hames means using a lot more line that seems pointless and in the way. The BR runs right by the outside britchen ring which is connected through the side strap, D-ring and short tug to the hame. So I run the BR from outside britchen ring to outside britchen ring. This works very well for me.A note on the fairs. The butt rope is not prohibited but a point deduction is taken.
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You must be logged in to view attached files.August 10, 2014 at 8:00 pm #83883Tender SolesParticipantI regularly use a butt rope too. I found that with our two horses with unknown training histories, and different amounts of training on our farm, that it is easier to prevent them from spreading too far out and create a potentially dangerous situation. I am not 60, but 30 and I am the teamster 95% of the time on our farm so I often work by myself with the team.
I think it’s a good safety mechanism. I also think Donn makes a good point in that you can train your horses to keep themselves aligned with each other without a butt rope. It’s a goal I would like to achieve in the future if I were to ever train younger horses.
Haven’t seen the outside to outside of britchen setup, but I like that better than running the rope on the inside. It does seem to put unnecessary strain on the harness that way.
August 10, 2014 at 8:24 pm #83885Brad JohnsonParticipantI am also a big fan of a butt rope, used everyday for work. Most of my time is spent in the woods, and I really like having the horses connected at the rear end. To be sure, it is useful safety measure, but I think it also improves the working efficient of most teams. When you are in the woods, in loose rigging, backing up over and over and over again during the course of a working day, every bit of time and hassle saved really adds up. I also leave it on when the horses are on the arch or bobsled, as it is just part of our routine together. I have had folks ask me why I bother using one, as my team backs up well and perhaps does not need the extra strap, but I continue to use it and always will. When I finally come up with my perfect team maybe I will abandon it, but I think that time is a long ways off. My horses are probable thinking it will be a long time before they have the perfect teamster as well!
-BradAugust 10, 2014 at 10:28 pm #83887dominiquer60ModeratorWe don’t use butt ropes, but I get why folks do use them. They would probably do some good when the bugs are bad and the horses start stomping and spread away from the pole while we are adjusting a cultivating sweep in the middle of the fall cabbage. Anything can happen when the unexpected happens, like breaking an evener and butt rope.
When training cattle, we use commands to set them in towards the pole or each other “put in” and to move away from the pole “put out” (commands may vary). With horses I don’t see a reason to teach them them “put out”, but “put in” is a great command to teach any horse in harness. It works best when horses work consistently as an off or near horse, as it means different directions to each animal depending on the side they work on. When they understand the command, it works great to keep them backing straight to a pole, sets them in when they get dangerously close to a row of young carrots, or when hitching and one swings their hind end out to get a better look at the guy shooting pigeons off the roof. It is less physical than the butt rope, but a handy command for a handy pair of horses or cattle.
I think that the “cheater rope” at fairs is shunned because of the reasons that Donn and Tendersoles have stated, a teamster can teach animals to stay together when backing, or to “put in” when a wandering hoof gets dangerously close to a traffic cone with a ball balanced on it (loss of points when a ball drops or a cone moves). At the fairs, the butt rope is seen as a lack of skill rather than needed for safety. These competitions are tests of teamster skills, the thought is if you can get around a tight but safe course with out the aid of a rope, you are likely to have better control of your animals in a real world farm/forest situation. I am not saying this to belittle anyone here, you are all good competent teamsters, this I know. Having competed in some of these fair classes, it does come down to splitting hairs. The person ground driving that backs their horses with no butt rope through a 90 degree turn without upsetting any cones, either has a good working relationship with their animals or is really lucky at that moment. Seconds count and cones touched are penalties, all time and penalties equal, it is <span style=”text-decoration:underline;”>perceived</span> that the teamster with the butt rope is less skilled that the one without. Again I am not trying to imply that anyone here lacks skills or should be unsafe. In the real world (outside of fenced arenas full of traffic cones), there are lots of other factors that go into using a butt rope, safety, training a green horse, efficiency, etc. Fair classes cannot duplicate the complexity of the situations that we find our selves in on a regular basis.
George I am glad that your incident ended without injury. Your story is a great reminder for us to check equipment often and to not take it for granted, it can be easy to do when we get busy with life.
Erika
August 13, 2014 at 6:33 am #83892Ed ThayerParticipantGeorge,
Glad that no one was hurt. I have yet to have an evener break completely, but while cultivating this Spring a stamped metal evener folded itself in half startling one horse for a moment. Lets just say it was an interesting ride back to the barn.
It was completely my error by not inspecting the evener thoroughly before use. It looked fine on top, but the underside was completely pin holed with rust from the water sitting in the channel of the single tree when not in use.
I always use the but rope when hitched, it connects to the inner britchen ring like described by others here. I used the long rope from hame to hame initially but that seemed cumbersome for some reason. I do have a quick release snap on one side in case there is a need to disconnect it in an emergency. I am not sure why I continue to use it because our team is very good about stepping over the pole.
Ed
August 13, 2014 at 8:25 am #83893Donn HewesKeymasterHi George, Don’t get me wrong as I have never discouraged someone from using a trope. What I wanted to suggest was a balance between looking for ways to prevent each possible thing from happening, and a realization of how important it is to know what to do when something happens. It is skill and a quick, quiet response that leaves you in control of the animals. This is critical and can be hard to teach. I try to use every minor thing to demonstrate to beginning teamsters what they would need to do to regain control of their animals in a variety of situations. With out this I have seen them sit on the cart and marvel as lines get stuck, or what ever.
I have broken every piece of hitch equipment and harness we have talked about. Now I think I have greatly reduced these events by just what you started with. Recognition and maintenance of what was worn out. But I am also using so many carts, eveners, yokes and tongues, I am sure there is one out there right now that should be replaced soon. In breaking those things I have never felt a need for a butt rope to aid me in keeping animals under control. I think of the butt rope as helping the horses stay parallel. That is really different from a horse that jumps from a tongue that busts going down a hill. There is no easy solution to a team getting hit by something coming from behind them. Quick action to steer and stop would be your best chance. First best would be to prevent those things from breaking.
Again, nothing against butt ropes at all. I will use one for a few days in training a green animal. I encourage others to use them if they help them. They just aren’t a big safety tool for me. Time to go trim some feet. talk to you soon, Donn
August 13, 2014 at 10:51 am #83894Does’ LeapParticipantHey Donn:
As always, I appreciate the knowledge and experience you bring to these exchanges. I agree that safely managing horses comes down how we manage and respond to difficult situations. Confident, adept responses over a period of time create confidence in both teamster and horses alike that helps us all stay safe. It takes a lot of time behind the lines to develop this confidence and it is a never-ending journey. I applaud your work in teaching new teamsters.
I still would like to believe that a butt rope, especially with a set-up like Mark’s, might play a role in averting a wreck. In Kristan’s situation, the cutter bar got jammed immediately and I would have been difficult to step the horses forward (to prevent the inside-out situation) while one was attached to the mower and the other not. Luckily, the horses felt comfortable and confident enough to stop and wait rather than running. I also do not think a butt rope precludes training your horses to stay together and step over the pole smoothly as many have mentioned.
George
August 13, 2014 at 4:18 pm #83896Brad JohnsonParticipantGeorge, Donn, et al,
Great conversation here. I agree with George that in the described situation a butt rope might have been helpful, along with the good reaction of the teamster and corresponding reaction (or not) from the horses involved. I think that this chat over the butt ropes gets at a larger issue, which when do we utilize a particular tool with our horses that can help aid our relationship with and reaction to them when working? Further, I think it might be pointed out that the complaints aimed at such a tool might be countered with the fact that while in a pulling competition in a ring a butt rope is frowned upon, in a real world, everyday working situation the aim of the task is very different. I strive to get the job done as safely and as efficiently as possible, and if a butt rope helps me do that then I will use it. My goal is not to win some scoot competition around cones, it is be a productive and efficient teamster with my horses. That is not to say that I disagree with Donn and others over the point that a well trained team may not need the aid, but I find that particular “frowning” to be a little pointless. To take it a step further, I could train my team to walk the skid trail with wood in tow without using lines. However, I choose to use lines in the woods, as do most other teamsters, as that tool is useful for many reasons. In short, my decisions on these matters will be made based on the team I have and my skill with them, to be as safe and productive as possible. If those at the fair want to frown on that, let them frown!
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