oversteering

[Tyler Fournier]

Hi,
I’m just learning to drive. We have an 8 year old Percheron mare, Coconut, and one thing I’m working on is driving in a straight line. Right now we tend to wander……a lot. To give an example, we’ll be strolling along in a straight line when she decides she’d like to head back towards her pasture area. So, she begins to wander in that direction (let’s say it’s to the right), I notice (probably too late), and I give left line pressure. She usually continues to wander, and I continue to increase left pressure. Eventually she is still wandering to the right with her head turned almost completely left in response to the left line pressure. Immediately thereafter she turns left, and before I know it she has done a 180. My goal was to steer her back to the left back onto our “straight line”, but now we’re headed back where we came from. This happens often, so I know to expect it, but even so I’m having trouble correcting it. She is definitely testing me and my inexperience, so I figure spinning her in a 180 is better than letting her wander where she wants. I do realize that ideally this is a “hands on the lines, develop the feel and anticipate” type of thing to learn, but was just wondering if anyone may have any pointers.
Thanks!
Tyler

[dehutch]

Hey Tyler,

I found even though I had riding experience, driving can be quite a bit different. It could be helpful to get some personal instruction if you haven’t had any. This could be at a driving clinic like the GMDHA has every year or with a mentor like Ted Russell from Sudbury. Steve Bowers book Farming with Horses has a section on single horse driving, harnessing etc. If I remember correctly your mare was advertised here on DAP and she was being used in a commercial operation, perhaps the seller could give you a hand as well.
Keeping the rein pressure right and ANTICIPATING what’s going to happen takes practice.

Feel free to send me a private message for more detail about the clinic, mentoring or other suggestions. I sent you a pm when you first posted awhile back.

[LStone]

Here is a quick tip that I found helped me with similar experiences. When you are driving, particularly from the ground it is easy for the horse to change directions on you. I learned that if I drove with a nice line pressure and kept the lines low so as to “bracket” the horse’s butt with the lines. This will help to increase line pressure in the opposite direction if it decides to change course on you. You should still anticipate but the action of the horse but will almost automatically initiate the corective action for you and you simply have to follow through with it.

[Carl Russell]

Tyler, it is interesting, I was thinking about letting you know about the GMDHA driving clinic. I was talking to Jean Cross, the organizer, yesterday and it made me think that you might find it worth your while…. now with this post it seems more important. Here is a link to the sign up on their website http://www.greenmountaindraft.org/

As far as the problem, the bracketing works great. I also wonder by your description, are you keeping pressure on both sides of the mouth? Even though the objective is to have little or no pressure ON the bit, you still need to have equal pressure on both sides.

I like to describe it as light as a feather and hard as a rock. There is a sweet spot between these two extremes. You have to be able to be soft as a reward, but you also have to be firm when the horse starts to put more pressure than you want.

A good exercise for driving straight is to visualize a rectangle, with your shoulders parallel to the bit as the short sides, and the reins as the long sides. Move that rectangle around in front of you, keeping all sides parallel. When you turn the horse, step in the opposite direction. In other words, don’t change pressure by pulling with one arm, step to the right which will change the orientation of your shoulders in relation to the bit, and the horse will have to change the position of its body, heading to the left, to realign itself with the bit, and your shoulders.

If the horse tries to turn her head without your direction, hold the rectangle firm, and she will have to go straight.

It is a little tricky to master at first, but try to make sure that every time you turn her, you step out of the current line first. After a while it will feel natural to both you and the horse.

Another good thing to remember is that if she is having a difficult time continuing straight, and continues to challenge you….. stop trying to make her go straight. you will only be teaching her how to disregard your direction if you turn it into a struggle to see how long she will walk straight. Drive her in figure 8’s, around in circles, back and forth, never in a straight line.

She needs to know that the lines are your way of communicationg with her… important messages. She should not learn that the reins are for you to attempt to restrict her. If she does, she will learn to fight them. Find some driving exercises where she HAS to follow your direction. Make sure to throw in Whoa(Stand), and Back too. Rather than using the lines to drive her, find ways to use the lines to communicate to her. Pressure for direction and correction, release for reward.

Carl

[Donn Hewes]

I will second what Carl said. Remember our driving system of lines is based on the basic premise that we can move their head and their body will follow were ever we point the head. As a result their head will telegraph wer they are about go. I will let a horse look at some thing to its left or right for about a 1/10 of a second then gently pointing it forward. Watch some of the experienced teamsters and their eyes are glued to the animal or teams head. They will be taking in everything else going on, but still be glued to to the head of the animals they are working.

[CharlyBonifaz]

don’t change pressure by pulling with one arm, step to the right which will change the orientation of your shoulders in relation to the bit, and the horse will have to change the position of its body

just to create a different picture but actually ending up with the same: over here we learn to begin a curve by releasing the pressure on the outer line, we give the horse the room it needs to turn….not pull on the inside; so if you step to the other side, you do just that, give the horse the room for its turn….

[Michael Colby]

Hey Tyler. All the advice above is great — and I hope most of it sounds familiar from our workshops. I’d be happy to continue to work with you and repeat my mantra: go slow and get help.

Coconut is a great horse and is doing what all horses do: testing you. But you need to develop the confidence necessary to give her confidence.

You should know about the challenges involved in this process from witnessing my relationship with Coconut’s replacement, Marley. As you know, we began with broken halters and mountains of frustration but…we’ve come a long way. Much of it is simply having the experience of knowing that the challenges will be coming and how to break through them. And then, of course, also knowing that there will always be new challenges tomorrow.

You and Coconut have embarked on a difficult voyage: You’re a beginner and she’s alone. It’s not an impossible voyage but one that would be greatly helped by…well…help.

With this site, you’ve come to the right place. But you also need to keep seeking hands-on experience and the ability to witness the delicate — and hopefully elegant — dance between horse and horseman/woman.

[Tyler Fournier]

I should have mentioned that overall, I am off to a great start with Coconut, and that is thanks to Mike’s help. Considering I knew nothing about horses 3 months ago, let alone driving, the fact that I can harness Coconut and drive her through our field is quite an accomplishment in itself. So, thanks Mike, for an awesome horse and a willingness to help. I’m having lots of fun with the whole process.

Tyler

[Carl Russell]

Tyler Fournier;26579 wrote:

I should have mentioned that overall, I am off to a great start with Coconut, and that is thanks to Mike’s help. Considering I knew nothing about horses 3 months ago, let alone driving, the fact that I can harness Coconut and drive her through our field is quite an accomplishment in itself. So, thanks Mike, for an awesome horse and a willingness to help. I’m having lots of fun with the whole process.

Tyler

Tyler, thanks for that background.

One thing to try to wrap your brain around is how much you are actually consuming as you travel along this learning curve.

You have made huge strides. Try to take some time to appreciate that.

It can be really easy to get caught up in enthusiasm, and one can propel themselves further ahead than they are prepared for.

Rather than thinking that the mare is testing you, try to think of her asking you if this is what you really want her to do? Or maybe she is trying something because she is feeling a lack of direction from you. She is probably used to Michael giving her more guidance, and she may be just a bit confused by unintentional mixed messages from you.

That first stage that you have come through, harnessing etc., is very technical… this whatcha ma dingy goes here, that goes there….. To some degree driving can also be very technical, but there are also many subtle undertones that require more cerebral activity.

Trying to drive the horse straight is a perfect example. You may be thinking that you have an intention to drive her straight, but she may be picking up on uncertainty from you pertaining to “WHY” you are driving her straight.

I may be reading much more into this, but it has been going around in my mind since I read this post, so please bare with me as I explain it…. it may or not be valuable to you.

I like to plan out a series of exercises when going through this stage. Obviously, at this point I have so many work related enterprises that I just go out with my mind set on the task at hand and guide the horse through it.

However, I don’t think that it sounds like you are really at a place where you should be taking on significant work projects, so I would set up an exercise program that mimics a working situation.

You don’t need to pretend you are plowing or whatever, just set out into the field with blocks of wood to drive around. Set your sights on a tree in the hedgerow and drive toward it, to a predetermined location before YOU direct her to something else. Turn and walk parallel to the stonewall. Back her through the bar-way. Stop and stand for 5 minutes by the big rock, while adjusting some piece of her harness. Etc.

This may seem a bit mundane, but it is very hard to master direction and technical skills at the same time, so if you set up a course that requires very little thought on your part, then you can have the confidence to direct her through it. AND it won’t be as much about the technical aspects as it will be about her learning to follow your leadership.

It really doesn’t matter how simplistic your direction may seem to the aspiring horse-farmer, what matters is that you set an intention, and you helped her to follow your direction to complete it. Once the two of you find effective communication, then you can begin to master more complex tasks that require more thought from you. By then you will have the free space in your mind to undertake both tasks because the foundation for communication will be solidly in place.

As I said, I may be reading more into this than is correct, but I remember my own endeavor ( I picked up the lines, kissed at him, and he turned right around to face me:eek:), and I have witnessed several others going through the same thing.

There is a real tendency to avoid simple and try to challenge ourselves toward complicated. It is hard to be patient sometimes, and sometimes it is even harder to see the value in kindergarten exercises, but even the most experienced of us have to keep that stuff in our bag of tricks.

Be patient. Feel the reward for what you have accomplished. Keep it simple. Think about it as a conversation with a foreigner, and when you find a place where the communication is breaking down, go back to what you know you both can agree on.

Carl

[Tyler Fournier]

Great reinforcements. I don’t think you’ve read too much into anything, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s encouraging to read. I couldn’t agree more that I am in no position to consider hooking to anything, or doing any “real work”. That would be a recipe for disaster. I think the place for Coconut and I right now is an open field that’s familiar to us both. So, that’s the plan. The knowledge that Mike and you other folks here on DAP (and those Lynn Miller books didn’t hurt!) have shared with me has gotten me off to a great start, but I do realize that I need to be smart, and not “propel myself further ahead than I am prepared for”, as you wrote. In other words, I don’t plan to bring Coconut into the woods and hook her to a tree any time soon. My immediate goals are to cut out the mixed signals, and to spend lots of time and energy just understanding Coconut and what makes her tick. She is no doubt a great teacher. We’ll focus on what we can do, and when that’s second nature, we’ll move on. And, eventually, we’ll be driving in a straight line! Thanks for all the help, I’ll need plenty more.

Tyler

[Michael Colby]

Carl, I like your use of the “conversation” metaphor, especially from the angle of trying to move away from simply calling it “testing.” I like to think of it as a dance, since there is a whole lot more than verbal communication going on.

Tyler, it sounds like you’re well on your way. I’m confident you and Coconut will be dancing smoothly soon.

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