Puzzled by this behavior

[Ed Thayer]

Ozzie and I have been working together in the forecart for 2 months now and for the most part he has been doing great.

We have been pulling small logs and he seems fine with it. Also been dragging our 8′ by 6′ chain harrow to break up manure from the winter.

What has me baffled is when I back him up to a log or the harrow and get him to where I need him to stand while I hitch to the cart, he begins prancing. For lack of a better word, he like steps in place and becomes very antsy. I tell him woa and he continues to prance and really wants to go. Once under way if I tell him to woa he will stop in his tracks and not move until told to.

He never does this while we are under way and I tell him to woa, it is only when we back to something.

Could this behavior be a result of pulling at fairs or in competition? I have been practicing backing and not actually hooking him while trying to calm him and only letting him go forward on command when he will stand still for a couple of minutes.

Any other ideas will be graetly appreciated.

Ed

[OldKat]

I don’t have an answer, but just curious; what WAS his background before you got him?

[Ed Thayer]

He was an Amish work horse and was purchased from the New Holland PA Auction.

[OldKat]

@highway 8287 wrote:

He was an Amish work horse and was purchased from the New Holland PA Auction.

… but I have a guess as to what it MIGHT be, but I am going to PM it you. Then we will wait and see what Carl, Donn, Plowboy, Jason or some of the other true teamsters say. I just want to see how close I am on target before stating publicly what I think the cause might be, heavy on the “might”.

[jen judkins]

Ed, I’ll bet he did some pulling competitions. What you describe is typical for marginally trained horses used for pulling. He is anticipating the load and the clink of the hitch. When he realizes its not there, he comes back to you. Like any pattern, I suspect with repetition, he’ll get the idea that he isn’t being hitched to something too heavy for him to handle and he will settle.

OldKat…what were you thinking? I’m curious…

[Plowboy]

Highway, Just because he came through the New Holland Sale doesn’t mean he was an Amish horse. He could have been a pulling horse or owned by a rough handler that expected him to fly into the load and if he didn’t he may have been punished for it. As long as he doesn’t do anything real bad keep working him gently and possibly he might settle down. Good Luck

[Rod44]

Sounds like a pulling horse waiting for the clank of the hook on the clevis.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Ed, It is possible that the horse’s history tells part of the story of why he is acting the way he is. I think it is equally possible that a young horse, or a green horse with limited experience, will pick this up on their own. He is a little excited about what is about to happen. It is very easy for them to pick up a pattern like “every time we come over here and turn around we get a different log”. The fact that he stands calmly when you stop in the middle of a pull but not while you are hooking up, suggests to me that he is anticipating the next “thing” to pull.

Don’t let his anxiety make you rush to hook up. Change your routine; when you back up to a log, get off and walk up to his head. Check his harness. Is he calm and relaxed now? If you stop the cart but don’t get out right away will he relax? By all means keep hooking him to logs, but with each evolution keep looking for a little chance for him to demonstrate his ability to do it better than the time before.

[Ed Thayer]

@Donn Hewes 8320 wrote:

Hi Ed, It is possible that the horse’s history tells part of the story of why he is acting the way he is. I think it is equally possible that a young horse, or a green horse with limited experience, will pick this up on their own. He is a little excited about what is about to happen. It is very easy for them to pick up a pattern like “every time we come over here and turn around we get a different log”. The fact that he stands calmly when you stop in the middle of a pull but not while you are hooking up, suggests to me that he is anticipating the next “thing” to pull.

Don’t let his anxiety make you rush to hook up. Change your routine; when you back up to a log, get off and walk up to his head. Check his harness. Is he calm and relaxed now? If you stop the cart but don’t get out right away will he relax? By all means keep hooking him to logs, but with each evolution keep looking for a little chance for him to demonstrate his ability to do it better than the time before.

We were unsure just how old he was. Beth thought about 12 and the vet last month said it was a preety good guess. If in fact he is 12 than maybe he has been doing this for a while.

It is not unmanageable, however my fear is he may try to walk off before I am ready. Safety is my greatest concern. Again, once under way and asked to woa he will do it instantly and stand as long as needed.

I will try all these suggestions and see how he does. He is a great horse and seems genuinly eager to please and work. I hope I can figure it out.

He appears to learn quick, the first time I hitched him to the forecart, he was very nervous. Repeated hitches and patience payed off. Now i can bring the forecart right up to him as one would expect, and he is fine with it.

Thanks for the help all,

Ed

[Donn Hewes]

The log is just like the first time you hitched him the cart. Give him a little time and he will figure it out. I hope you are keeping the lines in your hand while hooking the log? or someone is. Donn

[Carl Russell]

I don’t think it is related to be trained as a puller.

As Donn says he is just showing anxiety as he has developed expectations associated with the weight. I have had horses that have only worked with me start acting like that.

It may be as simple as he is getting so used to your routine that he is leading himself to second-guess you. Try taking him into the working setting, and going through the motions without hitching him, until he just turns around and stands quietly.

This may be one of those typical experiences where a horse will demonstrate his anxiety as a way to derail the order that is set up by the teamster. Don’t let the behavior derail you, but mix up your routine so that he will not be able to second-guess you, and will look to you for guidance.

He may have done a lot of work, but it all may have been a lot of walking with a relatively light load, on wheels etc., and the dragging of the logs is going to require a bit more exposure before he is comfortable.

Carl

[Ed Thayer]

@Donn Hewes 8329 wrote:

The log is just like the first time you hitched him the cart. Give him a little time and he will figure it out. I hope you are keeping the lines in your hand while hooking the log? or someone is. Donn

Yes I am, i have a long set of lines and I take them with me when i get of the cart. I let them set on the seat within easy reach when i am hooking.

If he persists in “prancing” when i go to hook and am still on the cart is it appropriate to yank the lines and try to get my point across?

If he really is testing me, what is the proper response from me?

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Ed, Yes Ed, in a way he is testing you. The way pass the test is to not let it have a big effect on you. You can adjust your routine, go a little slower, stop a few times with out hooking to anything, all the while he thinks you are ignoring this anxiety. Actually you are paying attention and aware of how he is responding to what you are doing. There isn’t any signal that I use with the lines for a horse that won’t stand still. Others might do it a little different. Donn

[Ed Thayer]

Hello all,

I ground drove Oz before I put him in the cart yesterday and he did a good job. I walked him to my log pile and let him look and sniff it for a while. Then I cicled and backed him in to the pile. He did get excited but for the most part stood when told to. I would then KISS to him and relaease him and he did not lunge forward. We would take a few steps and repeat the excersise.

Then I hooked him to the cart and did the same thing up the street at the other log pile and he seemed fine. I think I will continue with this as it appears to be working.

I have noticed he extends his neck out alot when under way or standing. Could this be from a collar that is to tight on the sides of the neck? We are using a collar pad and 26″ collar. I measured the neck before I bought the collar with a framing square and thought I had the right dimension. How tight should it fit on the sides?

Ed

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Ed, Glad he is settling in. It just takes time. As far as the collar goes. I have found my collars with pads can fit a little closer than what you usually see in collars with out pads. The test I use for a collar that is too tight at the sides is; when the collar is full on the shoulders ( like for work) try to lift it from the bottom with one hand. It should slide up and away from the shoulder without any drag. Drag like the friction of the compressed neck is holding it back. It should lift freely.

If there is enough room to breath at the bottom it is probably a good fit. Many horses carry there heads differently; up, down, extended or not. Talk to you soon, Donn

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