Scoot runner thicknes; Includes discussion of Bridle Chains

[Mark Cowdrey]

Hi All,
I’m about to have scoot runners sawn and the plan I am following calls for 2-1/2″ thick. I wonder if a little thicker (3″?) might be better or just a waste of weight? The soles will be through bolted w 1/2″ rod.
I am also thinking that Ash, sugar maple or white oak would all be good species selections.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark

[mitchmaine]

hi mark,
over here, scoots were 3-4″ thick. the runners were usually spruce (light and strong). and the shoes to wear were usually beech pinned on with 1″ hardwood pins. the shoes wear fast enough and steel pins don’t so the steel pins would be dragging in the ground. the hardwood pins wear off at the same rate the beech shoes do. the shoes were also pinned on butt forward so it would wear smooth. kinda like dragging a deer out head first so his hair lays flat and don’t work against you.

mitch

[Carl Russell]

Mark 3″ runners are not too heavy, but they are only necessary if you are pinning the bunks on in the traditional way with 1″ steel pins that reach all the way up through the runner and through the bunk. If you weld the 4″ pin onto the bunk plates then you won’t need the extra wood, and 2 1/2 ” is entirely adequate, especially with 4×4 shoes.

I use ash runner and red maple shoes.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Mark, I wondered the same thing and opted for 3″ runners. I figured the extra weight was minmal. My whole scoot is made of ash, shoes included.

George

[Does’ Leap]

I am in the process of finishing construction on a scoot. I have been drawing from Les Barden’s plans (drawn up by Mark Cowdrey)and from an article in Small Farmer’s Journal. BTW, Mark, the plans you sent me are for a single horse, 10′, scoot. I talked to Les and he builds his team scoots 12′ long with the bunks 7′ apart. I will post some pictures when all is done.

During this process I have been firing questions at Carl, the most recent of which has to do with chaining down a load. I thought others would benefit from this exchange so I am moving it to the public forum (Carl, hope this is ok with you).

Here’s Carl’s explanation on chaining a load:

“George, I take a 15′ chain and lay in along the rear edge of the top of the front bunk, with ends hanging off each side.

At the points that would mark either side of the inner 1/3 of the bunk, I take each end and move them toward the front of the sled, at right angles to the bunk, and the middle section of the chain.

I wrap the chain from the front under the bunk, then back up behind the bunk. At this point I put the chain under the remaining middle section that is still laid along the bunk, in essence making an open double half hitch with the chain on the bunk.

In this way the load is held in toward the center of the bunk, and it is attached to only one bunk, allowing the runners to flex independent of each other and the load. I have a feeling this last part is particularly important on steep ground with frozen logs.

Carl“

Carl, does this explanation correspond with your diagram on your SJF Bobsled article for “chaining a single log with one chain”?http://www.draftanimalpower.com/misc.php?do=showattachments&t=1232

George

[Carl Russell]

Does’ Leap;23451 wrote:

……
Carl, does this explanation correspond with your diagram on your SJF Bobsled article for “chaining a single log with one chain”?http://www.draftanimalpower.com/misc.php?do=showattachments&t=1232

George

Yes it does. I just want to reiterate that if you are just moving a log or two with the scoot then chaining it on can be fairly relaxed. However, if like me, you want to freight those ponies then, especially in winter with frozen logs, it is important that you get a good firm binding on those logs.

The design that Les uses with chains from runner to runner will either limit the movement of the runners independent of each other, or will allow the logs to shift and move.

I have a fair number of loads on a scoot chained as I describe, and I feel that it is pretty much fail-safe. Nothing worse than a shifting load, or logs sliding off the back (or front) of your sled.

As far as the runner length…. below are a couple of pics that show my frustration with runners that were too short for hauling 16′ logs. In this case, going uphill along a slope, there was too little weight on the front of the sled and it was just a little too unstable….. but my chain didn’t come undone:D.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Carl, I am close to fully understanding this, but not quite. In your diagram, you have a loop to the left of the log with the 2 hooks – not sure about that. Also, I assume you use this system on multiple logs with a scoot and not your more elaborate chaining system when using the bob? Finally, do you bind the load with your two chain ends on top?

Thanks.

George

[Carl Russell]

The loop with the chains is an old way of binding logs. The long handled grab is used as a lever to pull chain through the slip hook, then the grab is hooked onto the tightest free link outside of the slip to prevent the chain from loosening again.

I do use the single log chain technique for multiple logs on my scoot. I pull the two end of the chain up over the load and put the binder to them.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Carl, I hauled my first 3 loads of firewood with the scoot yesterday using your chaining procedure. It worked perfectly, thank you. Next on the list is loading efficiently and bridle chains…….

George

[Carl Russell]

Does’ Leap;23510 wrote:

Carl, I hauled my first 3 loads of firewood with the scoot yesterday using your chaining procedure. It worked perfectly, thank you. Next on the list is loading efficiently and bridle chains…….

George

….. and pictures!!!!

[Does’ Leap]

The USB cable to my camera is MIA. I ordered another. As soon as I get it, I’ll upload some pics.

George

[mitchmaine]

mark,
hows that scoot coming? you gave me some courage here to rebuild my old scoot. i lent out the good one so i chopped up the other to get the irons and stake pockets back. i have an old set of runners i had cut out 12 years ago laying around. trying to figure if its worth it or have another pair cut. i have been yarding with our sap sled which works ok but not great. good luck with it.

mitch

[Anonymous]

Can a box be added to make one these scoots into a work sled. We don’t have any sleds like them in our area. I think they would work great in our rocks and cradle hills. ???

Tristan

[Rick Alger]

If you set a box on one bunk it should be okay. If you set it rigid across both bunks, it will fight against the scoot’s ability to slip and slide over the cradle knolls.

[Jim Ostergard]

I cut a piece of plywood to fit over both bunks and it goes out over the stake pockets. I cut out for the stakes and made some sideboards that fit into the pockets. Thus the whole box will move as the scoot moves. In the picture gallery there is at least one shot of me throwing wood into it. Look under J. It sure works good for getting fitted wood right from the stump to the wood shed and I have used it to haul gear way back into the woods then take it off and use the scoot.
Jim

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