The future of the dairy cow??

[dlskidmore]

@Ixy 19436 wrote:

The answer to keeping cattle out year-round is very, very simple – move them every day.

Rotational grazing makes a lot of sense, and has so many benefits in increased yield, decreased parasite issues, better fat profiles in the meat… But in my area, there’s enough snow on the ground in winter, I think I’ll still have to put up winter feed. The haying problem is the big stickler in my designs for a low-equipment usage farm. Buying hay from a larger producer that can do it more efficiently than I can looks tempting, but leaves me reliant on outside inputs, which I’d like to wean myself off of over time.

[Stable-Man]

@dlskidmore 19447 wrote:

Part 4 there gets into one of my favorite agricultural topics: hedgerows. Although the hedgerow spotlighted appears to be a wildlife row rather than a stockproof one. There will definitely be a hedgerow experiment on my farm, to see if any plants native to this area can build as good a system as the English and Scottish hedgerows. I already have a small row planted in my little city place, but I doubt they will be mature enough to produce haws before we move.

The Amish believe that. It is the primary motivation for their restrictions on technology. That’s also why they allow generators and batteries, but not power lines. Dependence on the city over family and neighbors is discouraged.

It’s amazing the possibilities of the whole system, one of a few things in life that I am giddy to learn–and eventually try. Right now, unfortunately, except for composting and erosion control, it’s all in my head. It surprises me that more people my age aren’t interested at all. Surburban, city, and rural alike, seems like we’re still managing to draw even more of the dwindling numbers away.

As far as Amish, it’s one of a few things I appreciate about the little sect, also an excellent marketing strategy. Just the other day saw a commercial for Lancaster Co. and they’re the biggest draw, although when I drove through I didn’t see a single buggy.

To some extend, I see the point of housing cows in the winter. Soil microbial activity slows in areas with cold winters and the manure isn’t going to be as effective; therefore you bed it down over winter and let it compost, spread last year’s on the field in late spring or early fall, though that’s just what I’ve read.

[dlskidmore]

@Stable-Man 19419 wrote:

Don’t know if you’ve seen this but it’s a Documentary for the BBC about oil reliance and permaculture …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xShCEKL-mQ8

Another interesting concept here is using trees for forage. Does anyone here do that? What species work for that? Does it affect productivity or meat quality?

[Nat(wasIxy)]

@dlskidmore 19448 wrote:

Rotational grazing makes a lot of sense, and has so many benefits in increased yield, decreased parasite issues, better fat profiles in the meat… But in my area, there’s enough snow on the ground in winter, I think I’ll still have to put up winter feed. The haying problem is the big stickler in my designs for a low-equipment usage farm. Buying hay from a larger producer that can do it more efficiently than I can looks tempting, but leaves me reliant on outside inputs, which I’d like to wean myself off of over time.

Even with your weather conditions it would still be an improvement – your grazing season would extend, meaning you need less hay and making it by draft becomes more viable. I would question wether your neigbour is making hay more ‘efficiently’…perhaps he makes it cheaper, but how will that change as oil goes up? part of rotational grazing is haying though – you’re always going to have grass that gets away from them at certain times, if you stocked up to the point where the cattle were dealing with all the grass at peak times, you’d be overgrazing the rest of the time. Not cutting it means it just ‘goes over’ and is equally useless. Although, I think you’d be surprised at what cattle can deal with – we’ve had the hardest winter for a long time here and had snow on the ground for weeks, which is very unusual but the cattle (and sheep) grazed through it. We offered silage to the sheep as we have a favourite old ewe with no teeth who we wanted to help out, but they didn’t want it anyway!

As for housing and spreading manure – this is not as beneficial as we all may have thought, as we have become conditioned to think of pasture improvement as a case of applying single elements when in fact, it’s all about ratios and balance – adding the manure and straw in this manner is too high in some things, which inhibits the action of others – making grass unpalatable, and holding back soil fertility. If you really want the best from your pasture and to cut down on your work and inputs, you ahve to basically just leave it alone and let the soil get back to it’s own natural cycling – winter conditions are part of that. The way I see it is that cattle and grassland have evolved together for thousands upon thousands of years perfectly well without human intervention and we can’t possibly know better than that! We may think that doing X, Y or Z would improve it, but we always overlook some tiny detail that makes it unsustainable in the long term, and we’re always going to have to revert to the default system that nature devised….

[dlskidmore]

@Ixy 19455 wrote:

Even with your weather conditions it would still be an improvement – your grazing season would extend, meaning you need less hay and making it by draft becomes more viable.

Yes of course. I didn’t mean to say the winter feed problem made rotational grazing less valuable, just that for those 3 months a year where grazing is difficult, it might not be enough on it’s own.

By efficiently, I should have said economically. The larger producer has bigger equipment and can churn out a few more hay bales at less additional cost to me having to buy all the equipment to churn out those few more hay bales myself. Even a sustainable farming operation has an initial investment in draft animals and equipment.

In an ideal world, the land we buy will have a neighbor with haying equipment, who will hay the overgrown fields for a percentage of the crop.

[jac]

Ixy what size paddocks do you use. We make 2 manure heaps and only spread when its been turned into compost basicly, that helps with the soil tying up nitrogen breaking down the straw material….
John
ps your parcel leaves today;)

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Thanks jac!!

Our fields are roughly 5 or ten acres apiece (lots of native hedgerows in between as shelter and we also sell the sloes and things from them), but they are cut into strips that will last them a day by electric fencing. It takes less than an hour a day to move them to a new strip and set out the next fence for the next day as they soon get used to the move.

I personally would love 1acre fields, all surrounded by edible hedges! But that is a way off for us and I think OHs tractor-loving brother would kill us for chopping things up so small lol.

We cut ten acres for hay and various patches that get too long, my intention is to use oxen for that but I’m waiting on my team to mature and get the machinery together etc. We also have a further 40 acres for spare grazing and growing lucerne and pig feed but due to complicated movement restrictions I might have to leave that to the tractors??

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Nitrogen isn’t the issue with compost – it’s potassium; too much potassium affects nutrient availability, making your pasture seem deficient, so you have to put X, Y or Z and more compost on it…we’d test the soil and only put compost on if it needed more potassium.

[jac]

I really need to read more !! I allwaz thot it was the nitrogen that got trapped as the straw broke down… strip grazing sounds like a plan to me, in a 5 acre field I take it the strips arent too wide so reducing the waste thru trampling…cool…
John

[Stable-Man]

@Ixy 19455 wrote:

If you really want the best from your pasture and to cut down on your work and inputs, you ahve to basically just leave it alone and let the soil get back to it’s own natural cycling – winter conditions are part of that. The way I see it is that cattle and grassland have evolved together for thousands upon thousands of years perfectly well without human intervention and we can’t possibly know better than that! We may think that doing X, Y or Z would improve it, but we always overlook some tiny detail that makes it unsustainable in the long term, and we’re always going to have to revert to the default system that nature devised….

This makes sense, but what do you do with the 2 months of bedding? Or are they fed out in the open?

[OldKat]

@jac 19461 wrote:

I really need to read more !! I allwaz thot it was the nitrogen that got trapped as the straw broke down… strip grazing sounds like a plan to me, in a 5 acre field I take it the strips arent too wide so reducing the waste thru trampling…cool…
John

John,

I think you and Ixy are actually talking about two different things. I think she is talking about using material that has been already been FULLY composted. It is possible for some composts to be high in potash (K), or potassium carbonate, depending what plant material or other organic (carbon containing) parent material was composted. It is NOT a given that ALL composts are high in potassium, but it clearly DOES happen.

I think what you are referring to is the fact that WHILE carbon containing materials are decomposing or composting a percentage, and usually a large percentage at that, of the available nitrogen (N) will bind or be chemically tied up with the materials that are decomposing. That IS a given and is the reason that you don’t want to apply fresh manure or other high N materials to a growing crop: be it a field crop, a garden or a pasture. You will be applying N, but while the carbon or fibrous part of the manure is decomposing it will tie up the N that is in the manure and if not enough is available it will tie up N that would usually be available from the soil to the plant(s). Likewise, applying straw or other fibrous materials in the form of a mulch cover is usually okay, but incorporating it in the soil and then planting into that mix is usually a no-no … unless you have copious quantities of N present to fed the crop and meet the composting requirements. Usually that is NOT cost effective. What Ixy is saying about keeping things in balance is very true.

[jac]

Thats what I was on about OldKat.. thanks for clearing it up.. but the 2 manure piles I have.. one being filled and one sealed up when the horses go out and not spread on my fields till a year later was the “compost” I refered to.. Perhaps I should get more stuff analised..soil,grass,manure ect.. this web site rocks !!!!thanks again…
John

[OldKat]

@Ixy 19459 wrote:

Thanks jac!!

Our fields are roughly 5 or ten acres apiece (lots of native hedgerows in between as shelter and we also sell the sloes and things from them), but they are cut into strips that will last them a day by electric fencing. It takes less than an hour a day to move them to a new strip and set out the next fence for the next day as they soon get used to the move.

I personally would love 1acre fields, all surrounded by edible hedges! But that is a way off for us and I think OHs tractor-loving brother would kill us for chopping things up so small lol.

We cut ten acres for hay and various patches that get too long, my intention is to use oxen for that but I’m waiting on my team to mature and get the machinery together etc. We also have a further 40 acres for spare grazing and growing lucerne and pig feed but due to complicated movement restrictions I might have to leave that to the tractors??

John,

Not sure what the costs would be to get it shipped to your side of the pond, but The Stockman Grass Farmer magazine has been on a kick of promoting just the sort of grazing practices that Ixy is advocating for about 25 or 30 years. Really good, hands on type of advice from successful graziers all over the world (but mainly US, Canada & South America) …stuff that really works in all sorts of climates and all sorts of soils.

The problem is if you start reading it you will get so fired up that you can hardly keep from implementing all of the strategies and practices at one time! I have been attempting to fully move that direction for the last 5 or 6 years, but have been hampered by the fact that my cattle are 20 miles away from where I live and we have been in severe drought for much of the growing season for 7 of the last 10 years, and 4 of the last 6 years (BUT SO FAR NOT THIS YEAR!!!!). I can tell you that what I have implemented so far has yielded dramatically improved results, others report the same. What Ixy is relating has been proven to be possible all around the world.

If I hadn’t been using rotational grazing the 100 year drought last year would have no doubt shut down my little cattle herd. As it was I had to cull down to less than half of my normal herd size and buy hay from 500 miles away. If I hadn’t had a good stand of grass going into it I would have been forced to sell out 100%; of this I am sure.

Another plus is that these concepts are cost effective, in fact WAY more cost effective than most of the “traditional” grazing practices. Many people are getting to the point that they can sharply reduce their dependence on hay, silage or temporary pastures and study after study has shown that relying on those expensive inputs are what is keeping most stock producers from being profitable.

Some of their stuff is online, but quite frankly I never go to that site. I enjoy reading the magazine in my easy chair over cup of java. Try typing this in your browser: http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/

[jac]

Thanks for that link OldKat.. for some reason Britain seems to be totally stuck with the traditional ways, or least it is round our way. If these more sustainable practices were used the big guys like monsanto might not have such a grip..Im going to check this out, we are very small scale but with 5 Clydes and soon to be house cow and Cates sheep we need to move into another way of doing this..
Jeez you guys must be having it hard with drought, we moan about the rain over here but i cant start to imagine what it must be like to have a field of stock and no water ..
John

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Some people are stuck in the past, but amongst others the mood is changing – we’ve agreed to show a small group of interested farmers around our place in August. The guy who’s organised it has just started mobstocking (that’s what you call this) and says if it wasn’t for this, he’d be right out of grass this year.

Same for us I think – everyone else is very worried about the lack of rain and run out of grass already – we still have a surplus! the re-growth rate is slightly worrying, maybe we will have to house slightly longer this year? We’re still ahead though so it’s all good!

[Author]

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