The need for good working horses

[Carl Russell]

We keep getting contacted by folks looking for good medium sized work horses, that are level headed and workable. As we expand opportunities for people who want to have working animals, we need to develop a strong network of resources that can provide the kinds of animals that will contribute to positive development of the industry.

[Gabe Ayers]

Hello DAP people,

We are always getting the same request for good horses down in Virginia. Of course being breed specific in my own operation I tend to have more connections to Suffolk horses. I have been raising and working them for about thirty years now so I know where quite a few are. We keep two stallions on the farm and breed as many mares as we can find of any breed. We actually have many more crossbred horses working in the woods with our group of practitioners associated with Healing Harvest, than purebreds or registered horses.

Among our purebred gelding Suffolk horses I am somewhat proud to say that none of them are registered. I have never understood how someone that actually worked a horse would have the extra money to register a gelding. Seems like money wasted in a few of ways. The first being the cost of registration, second the cost of membership to the association that registers the horses and the third being any transfer fees for buying a horse from someone that has a registered one. I suspect there are folks that disagree for their own reasons.

This decision is easy as an economic choice for the utilitarian horse owner. It doesn’t necessarily support the association that registers horses, but I have to keep my membership fees paid to register my own fillies and keep up with the registered mares we serve with our stallions. So I feel like I pay my dues in that way and am not inclined to spend money on registering geldings. Some people will just call me tight with money, but it is easy again to be tight with something you don’t have enough of anyway.

Sharing how we can make more money while being sustainable is the gist and heart of this site to me. That is what I will try to contribute from our experience.

Back to the thread of finding good horses for good people. Part of the mission or our non-profit organization is to support the practitioners of restorative forestry with financial and technical assistance. So we definitely network with many folks to find horses for our practitioners and homes for horses.

It is amazing to me that as the years have gone by and that because I have a personal policy of buying any horse back that is sold off our farm, that I have actually owned many Suffolk horses several times. As long at the horse is not injured physically then we take/buy them back into our extended family, Someone in the group of fifty or so modern horse loggers always needs a horse and they find a useful home quickly.

Usually the inquiries we get from registered Suffolk people is for bred, broke, young mares. Sometimes with a size and color preference. Not allot of those around and if they are they are rightly relatively expensive. There are so few of these horses that it seems appropriate that they are valuable. Having a pair of registered mares is like having a franchise in the breed. But we find found that unless the people are really farming or logging with them, they don’t last to long. Having been in this business for so long (bought my first team in 1974) I have definitely seen allot of folks come and go. I am more interested in investing my own time in the ones I think will stay. It is the same with the horses. Staying on a load is more important than starting hard on a heavy load.

There is a contrast. The inquiries we get from practitioners are usually a search for a broke gelding of substantial size (1600+) that is ready to go to the woods tomorrow. They are not easy to find either. The same reason of if they have these characteristics they are usually already gainfully employed and not for sale. But for various reasons some horses always become available and we hear about them and try to put them with good owners when we can. Sometimes I get a percentage of the sale or a finders fee, but usually I just do it as part of our 501c3 non-profit public charity work and hope the organization is successful enough to pay me a small management fee on an annual basis.

Well, maybe this gives any visitors something to read. I am glad that Lisa and Carl are doing this, good for them and us again….

Please let me know if their is anything I can do to support this cyber networking. I will post this site address on our web site and my blog and we will see if we can grow a community of interest that can benefit all of us.

We have a tremendous amount of written information on our web site for anyone that is interested in these issues. I am sure I will be referring to them as time goes along on this new site….

DRAFT ANIMAL POWER….the “Carbon Positive” culture.

Stay tuned….share it with anyone interested.

Warm Salute,

Jason Rutledge, Biological Woodsman

http://healingharvestforestfoundation.org

[Plowboy]

Right now the market for horses is definately in favor of the buyer. While I don’t want to be negative the buyers aren’t always skilled enough to handle even well trained horses. All it takes is an error in judgement or lack of know how to ruin a good team. This is why I neglect to train horses for people even though the offers come in when they see how well our horses perform on the farm and in public. We also don’t have time to train folks formally in teamstership while we do take newcomers under our wing and help them along their way. A teamsters lifestyle is definately one of commitment and hard work to become proficient in the craft and be good caretakers of their stock and equipment.
All too often the romantic notion of living off the land appeals to people and then becomes too much physical work or a passing fad. The horses then get turned out in the back forty and become a burden more than a useful source of power.
Decent horses are readily available but real good horses still command a good price and rightfully so. Feed and training time is worth very little when a real good 3 yr old broke to all equipment will usually bring less than $2000. Even at $4000 for a team the seller is losing money making it economically impossible to flood the market with these excellent young horses.
Mostly as Jason said the good ones are already working and getting better by the day.
The best advice I can give is to first seek the training to learn how to handle a good team proficiently and then you can get by with whats available or what you can afford. I am an advocate of mentor training and listening to anyone that knows more than I do with open ears absorbing all information and then sort out the chaff so to speak.
When it comes down to buying a team buy the best trained available and they will teach you their limitations. Until the prices go up the “Work Horse” business of raising and training will remain stagnant. In the day and age of the declining dollar everything goes up except for agricultural products wether it be horses,beef, milk,produce or grain crops we are all slaves to the market.
If networking will help I am all for it. Occassionally I find good horses being sold for health or economic reasons or as I said earlier the passing of a fad. I would be glad to help anyone in my area of Central New York that is GENUINELY interested in the craft and I also am fortunate enough to still have a panel of old timers to help folks also.

[Carl Russell]

I totally agree that the teamsters have to come to the equation with the skills and commitment to make the horse be what they want. I also agree that it is not cost effective to produce a working horse in this market. I have no reason to sell a horse once they are working well anyway. The point I would like to make is that just because a horse weighs 1800 lbs and wears a #8 shoe doesn’t make it a work horse. The last time I looked for a horse to buy, I looked at thirty horses before I found the one I wanted. I was ashamed of the prices people wanted for horses that haven’t seen a harness in months. One fellow wanted $2500 for a 2 year old, and he was going on telling me what I was going to need to do to train him to lift his feet. I bought a 3 year-old with no harness experience for $1200. Because I knew that I could put in the time needed to get a good horse.
We need to raise the bar of expectations for people who are selling horses. This is not easy, but buyers should expect more from a horse seller. I’m not talking about the mysterious concept of trained to work, but just simply handled. I know from experience that most of us are buying the best horse we can find and busting our butts, using skills and guts to get the working horse we want. This is beautiful, it is the craft, but it also allows for horse after horse to be brought into the market with little or no handling. They breed ’em and feed ’em, and we buy them.There is no need of it, and as more people are interested in working horses, there needs to be a greater awareness among horse people of the level of expectation buyers should be bringing to the seller. Carl

[CRTreeDude]

Probably part of what you are dealing with is that horses are considered a luxury item up there. Therefore, if someone is selling, they are calculating in the cost of maintaince as well.

Here, the cost of maintaince generally isn’t considered. You only pay for the value of the animal – i.e. how well trained. And, since there is an abundance of horses, there isn’t much problem finding any.

What we have are very well trained horses that are trained to riding (as in work and transportation) and at times, hauling carts. I have yet to see a harness here – normally they just attach the cart to the saddle and a ride sits on the horse. It works pretty well really.

I am looking forward to building some real harness for a few of the animals. Who knows what revolution it might start down here.

[Author]

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