Timber Framing

[Gabe Ayers]

Although everyone may not have the skills to do timber framing, it is a traditional way to build long lasting strong structures. There seems to be many timber framers throughout the country and they may be located through the Timber Framers Guild on the web.

Since we have somewhat shifted to this market for the goods produced by our services and nobody else had posted anything on this section I figured it may be of interest to see the project we were involved in with StreamLine Timberworks and the Floyd Fest group.

Every piece that eventually went into this “front of the house” structure was from standing dead or dying trees and many were completely flat on the ground having blown over. Most were scarlet oak and still had plenty of sound wood to make these beams from.

This event is a local music festival that attracts thousands of visitors to our somewhat remote mountain community annually. It is an opportunity to showcase our services and goods to a large sector of the public. The organizers are always looking for a new angle on their event and “green” is the current buzz. It is the biggest event in our area of the year. We see it as a combination of music festival and eco-tourism. We have resisted invitations to do live demos on site and wagon rides as that is not what we are interested in and their is no financial reward for the effort. So we just plan to attend and share a booth with the timber framers to give the “green” spin on the “source differentiated identity” of their products coming from DRAFTWOOD “green certified” horse logged beams from restorative forestry.

Meanwhile back to the homesteading aspect of using this building technique for your home or barns. Attached is a picture of the frame that these guys threw up in an afternoon. More photos available if anyone is interested.
I have to say that for years we tried to work with these folks by supplying beams with the response being “you are to expensive”. Nowadays, with the search for green sourced materials our cost is less of an issue. Stick to your principles and wait for the market to come to you. We just sell the material harvested using our principles of restorative forestry, (and not used in the timber frame) into the conventional markets for whatever they will give us. This amounts to most of the volume actually and we are thankful for that market although economically marginal.

Maybe this will lead to a thread about locally produced building materials and other styles of building.

Since we didn’t get any comments on the you tube link posted on this event last time I will post it again for those will high speed connections to view it on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTRCONaBZe4&feature=channel_page

[goodcompanion]

Very nifty. I am always impressed by the work of really skilled framers.

I did about half of the frame on my house as a timber frame (everything except exterior and partition walls, which were stick built. I really enjoyed doing that work. Just as I am in awe of our forerunners who routinely plowed down more land in a day than I can manage in a week, I am in awe of those who routinely put up beautiful and enduring structures using only hand tools.

I made my frame out of local hemlock. Spitting wet and heavy as lead!

Since you mentioned timber frame economics, I’d like to add another note. I have two books on timber framing, both by Tedd Benson, in my library. The first I loved from the start. Written in 1978, it is brimming with idealistic back-to-the-lander fervor, with much wordage about the clarity and honesty of good work done by hand, and a strong message that by adhering to good design principles and doing much work yourself, a timber frame house need be no more expensive than a conventional one.

Benson’s next book on timber framing, written in the mid 90’s, depressed the hell out of me. Gone were the pen-and-ink and b + w photos of the original–this time it was nice and glossy, with many of the examples portrayed being (in my view) extremely lavish homes. Also gone is the back-to-the-lander sentiment, as well as any realistic expectation that someone who wants to live in a timber-framed house might have any real hands-on involvement in its construction.

The gist of the first book is, “here is how to build your timber frame house.” The gist of the second is, “here is an idea of the beautiful timber frame house that your timber frame contractor can build for you.” The intervening 15 years saw an upscaling of the framer’s art, coinciding with a general increase in new construction costs across the board.

I find the idea that beauty belongs only to the rich very depressing. This was part of the reason why I got out of timber/woodworking entirely and into farming instead. At least with farming, there is a possibility that someone with economic means similar to my own might buy my products. But timber frame houses are part of a world that belongs to my betters.

Which is bizarre. All this timber, all around us (at least here in Vermont) yet no feasible way to convert that timber into beautiful, durable, affordable housing.

[OldKat]

@Biological Woodsman 9582 wrote:

Although everyone may not have the skills to do timber framing, it is a traditional way to build long lasting strong structures. There seems to be many timber framers throughout the country and they may be located through the Timber Framers Guild on the web.

Since we have somewhat shifted to this market for the goods produced by our services and nobody else had posted anything on this section I figured it may be of interest to see the project we were involved in with StreamLine Timberworks and the Floyd Fest group.

Every piece that eventually went into this “front of the house” structure was from standing dead or dying trees and many were completely flat on the ground having blown over. Most were scarlet oak and still had plenty of sound wood to make these beams from.

This event is a local music festival that attracts thousands of visitors to our somewhat remote mountain community annually. It is an opportunity to showcase our services and goods to a large sector of the public. The organizers are always looking for a new angle on their event and “green” is the current buzz. It is the biggest event in our area of the year. We see it as a combination of music festival and eco-tourism. We have resisted invitations to do live demos on site and wagon rides as that is not what we are interested in and their is no financial reward for the effort. So we just plan to attend and share a booth with the timber framers to give the “green” spin on the “source differentiated identity” of their products coming from DRAFTWOOD “green certified” horse logged beams from restorative forestry.

Meanwhile back to the homesteading aspect of using this building technique for your home or barns. Attached is a picture of the frame that these guys threw up in an afternoon. More photos available if anyone is interested.
I have to say that for years we tried to work with these folks by supplying beams with the response being “you are to expensive”. Nowadays, with the search for green sourced materials our cost is less of an issue. Stick to your principles and wait for the market to come to you. We just sell the material harvested using our principles of restorative forestry, (and not used in the timber frame) into the conventional markets for whatever they will give us. This amounts to most of the volume actually and we are thankful for that market although economically marginal.

Maybe this will lead to a thread about locally produced building materials and other styles of building.

Since we didn’t get any comments on the you tube link posted on this event last time I will post it again for those will high speed connections to view it on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTRCONaBZe4&feature=channel_page

… but I must be having a “duh” moment here. Jason, what is meant by the term “front of the house” structure? :confused:

BTW: Very nice work.

[OldKat]

@goodcompanion 9591 wrote:

Very nifty. I am always impressed by the work of really skilled framers.

I did about half of the frame on my house as a timber frame (everything except exterior and partition walls, which were stick built. I really enjoyed doing that work. Just as I am in awe of our forerunners who routinely plowed down more land in a day than I can manage in a week, I am in awe of those who routinely put up beautiful and enduring structures using only hand tools.

I made my frame out of local hemlock. Spitting wet and heavy as lead!

Since you mentioned timber frame economics, I’d like to add another note. I have two books on timber framing, both by Tedd Benson, in my library. The first I loved from the start. Written in 1978, it is brimming with idealistic back-to-the-lander fervor, with much wordage about the clarity and honesty of good work done by hand, and a strong message that by adhering to good design principles and doing much work yourself, a timber frame house need be no more expensive than a conventional one.

Benson’s next book on timber framing, written in the mid 90’s, depressed the hell out of me. Gone were the pen-and-ink and b + w photos of the original–this time it was nice and glossy, with many of the examples portrayed being (in my view) extremely lavish homes. Also gone is the back-to-the-lander sentiment, as well as any realistic expectation that someone who wants to live in a timber-framed house might have any real hands-on involvement in its construction.

The gist of the first book is, “here is how to build your timber frame house.” The gist of the second is, “here is an idea of the beautiful timber frame house that your timber frame contractor can build for you.” The intervening 15 years saw an upscaling of the framer’s art, coinciding with a general increase in new construction costs across the board.

I find the idea that beauty belongs only to the rich very depressing. This was part of the reason why I got out of timber/woodworking entirely and into farming instead. At least with farming, there is a possibility that someone with economic means similar to my own might buy my products. But timber frame houses are part of a world that belongs to my betters.

Which is bizarre. All this timber, all around us (at least here in Vermont) yet no feasible way to convert that timber into beautiful, durable, affordable housing.

Erik, I know what you mean and I don’t disagree with what you are saying in anyway. I know several people, including a brother-in-law that have gone into specialty woodworking, cabinet making, door and sash work, creative design etc, etc with the idea that they could bring beauty and an artistic approach to living spaces of common people. Without fail the comments from the consuming public went something like this; “I love your (cabinets, windows, whatever) and I would really like to include them in my home, BUT I can buy them so much cheaper at Lowe’s, Home Depot, Sutherland’s, McCoy’s, etc, etc.

You know, and I know, that what they are doing is like comparing apples to basketballs. Still it is very difficult for the average person to appreciate what goes into a custom made product.

I am not that way, because about 25 years ago we gutted a then 65 year old home and replaced virtually everything; plumbing, wiring, bathrooms, kitchen, the whole deal. We insulated up to the limits of what a structure that old can be insulated. We used double insulated windows where possible. I built the cabinets myself and did most of all of the other work myself as well. We could have easily had a custom built home constructed on that site for way less money than we spent on rescuing what was there. The only upside is that we started a trend in our neighborhood and virtually all of the older homes in the area have since undergone extensive makeovers that have kept them from meeting the wrecking ball. Our reward for all of this industry? Our taxes have increased almost 4-fold in the last 20 years! Now we almost can’t afford to live there anymore! When we retire we will no doubt have to move to another area because the taxes have gotten so high. Sad.

While I know what goes into it, most people are so far removed from any craftsmanship that their only frame of reference is what can be bought out of a big box store. If their only criteria is money, the craftsman loses NEARLY everytime unless the prospective customer has deep pockets or is somehow motivated beyond the financial aspect.

[goodcompanion]

@OldKat 9596 wrote:

I am not that way, because about 25 years ago we gutted a then 65 year old home and replaced virtually everything; plumbing, wiring, bathrooms, kitchen, the whole deal. We insulated up to the limits of what a structure that old can be insulated. We used double insulated windows where possible. I built the cabinets myself and did most of all of the other work myself as well. We could have easily had a custom built home constructed on that site for way less money than we spent on rescuing what was there. The only upside is that we started a trend in our neighborhood and virtually all of the older homes in the area have since undergone extensive makeovers that have kept them from meeting the wrecking ball. Our reward for all of this industry? Our taxes have increased almost 4-fold in the last 20 years! Now we almost can’t afford to live there anymore! When we retire we will no doubt have to move to another area because the taxes have gotten so high. Sad.

Right on. I also did a comprehensive renovation to a 1860’s house in town, that would otherwise have been bulldozed. Sold it to buy a farm!

My taxes would be crushing in my current location were it not for Vermont’s progressive income-based tax-rebate laws. I can farm wheat and cows and bake bread and easily pay what the state thinks is my fair share. Hope this lasts…

[Carl Russell]

I have attached a few pics of the house we built. Every stick in the house cane to the site with horse power right from my own wood land. I hand cut every joint. I chose log and post and beam purely for functionality. There is in my mind very little reason to build a stick frame structure. Far too restrictive from the very beginning.

I built the entire frame before I made commitments to style and placement for any windows, doors, and interior walls. And as far as cost, using only my own materials, obviously costs were lower than if I had purchased it, but in terms of lumber utilization and structural integrity for the amount of lumber used, P&B is superior.

Also with my octagon P&B was far better way to tie the structure together.

Oh yeah, there is definitely an aesthetic value as well, and the listers charge my more because I live in a log home, never mind that I designed and built the whole thing myself, and there is very little about this home that would attract the normal home buyer.

And. we have a Wood Mizer LT15 that we bought for the house project. It was paid for just with the house, and I use it regularly for more current work. Just sawed out a small P&B for the White River Partnership, 12 X 16 to be raffled off for a fund raiser.

Carl

[Gabe Ayers]

Old Kat,

“Front of the House” is hip speak or music jargon for the little shed the people that run the sound system set up to make the adjustments to the musical, audio and light show portion of the entertainment.

The promoters talk about this in the you tube piece posted. I am still waiting to see what this amounts to for the continuation of the business that our work ends up being as a living wage income producer.

The “Meet the Farmer TV” channel seems pretty cool and features some interesting folks doing good things in the countryside.

Right now (for work around hay making) we keep switching back and forth from the Stream Line Timber Works site and custom harvesting pieces for their needs and the Crooked River Farm

(http://www.crookedriver.wordpress.com/)

project doing the same. It is always interesting to harvest material for a cut list within the restrictions of worst first single tree selection and the principles of restorative forestry. It is never fast, in fact is much slower and requires good planning and some reasonable lead time to get the material out, processed and supplied to the builders.

We are trying to do exactly what Carl did, which is provide home builders the option of using material from their own land while preserving and restoring the forested eco-system throughout the process. Of course this approach isn’t as personal as what Carl did by doing all the work himself, but it does give our culture a place in the economy of this rural setting. Everybody isn’t as talented, dedicated, determined or tough as Carl Russell.

Thanks for asking.

[ngcmcn]

Hey Jason, hows the sound in that little stage. I’ve always been told when it comes to sound that “wood is good.” Most of out little fiddle stages round here are hemlock and metal roofing.

Who’s Floyd?

Neal Maine Mandolin

[Gabe Ayers]

Neal,

The little stage is where the sound people set up their boards and stuff to adjust the sound coming out of the big stage, which I will try to attach a photo of. So it is just a place for the sound people to work in and not play music out of. The big stage is mostly white pine. The big Hill Holler Stage can be seen in the background of the attachment below.

I think nothing is as good as wood for many purposes and acoustics are another example. This Floyd Fest deal is mostly about electronic amplification of musical instruments and very little to do with actual acoustics. The main reason for the stages is to showcase the craftsmanship and local businesses that make these structures, particularly as a choice for home building.

Incidentally the back of the little “front of the house” will have a mural of the horses logging to promote the source of the material. A local artist came and searched our photos for something to base the mural from. I hope to have a photo of that painting from photos to share before the actual event in July.

Floyd is just a little county and the name of the county seat in this little place in southwestern Virginia, about 20 miles from Roanoke on the north and one county away from the North Carolina on the south. I came here as a high school kid riding down the Blue Ridge Parkway many years ago. The BRP is the county line on the east and it is along the crest of the Blue Ridge. It is a high plateau with very little industrial development because of the geographic isolation of the place. We are getting our share of McMansions though. The primary way people made their living was farming and forestry, but nowadays most people compute to Roanoke and Blacksburg for employment. The land is reasonable fertile (acidic), the rainfall adequate and the wind is relentless. I returned to the area in the early seventies to homestead and have bought one little place after another until I got the place we are on now. Land used to be cheap, not any more….10K an acre is common… it is about 85% forested, which provides us lots of work in the woods. After being on the cover of the Mother Earth News back in 87 I have felt a responsibility to not advertise this place as some kind of eco-topia. It is not, nor do I think there is such a place anywhere. It is just another place on earth that provides enough natural resources for a working person to survive with a little luck.

We are quite isolated as far as other animal powered practitioners go and have only a few other folks that work animals at all and none of them are actually physical neighbors. There are only a couple of Biological Woodsmen here and neither one apprenticed with me, but with another one of our practitioners. They both do work Suffolk horses.

Thanks for asking. Keep playing music or listening to it live anywhere you can. We will have some of the local folks and practitioners playing music on our upcoming segments in the series on Modern Horse Logging on the Rural Heritage Show on RFD-TV. We just worked on editing the third in the series yesterday. It will actually have some of the acoustic rock we play in the background of some of the segments. I will post the actual air times when I find out.

[Anonymous]

thanks for the helpful information ..

______________
log home builders

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Brian,

Great Website! Have you folks been able to source any material from animal powered practitioners – horse, mule and oxen loggers to be exact?

We find this sourcing method does have a certain appeal with some consumers. If a “source differentiated identity” is part of how the product is defined as desirable, then the more different the sourcing is the more desirable it may be to some customers. It is particularly appealing when the material may be sourced from the home site itself.

There used to be some great horse loggers in BC, including Rob Borsato and others. In fact at one time the Canadian government was supporting the training and displayed a clear preference for this technique.

Thanks for posting here and continued good luck with your good work out there.

Salute,

[blue80]

QUOTE from the first thread, “Maybe this will lead to a thread about locally produced building materials and other styles of building.”

After many years of apprenticing for others and then becoming self employed, we have adapted our construction methods over the years to deal directly with the very issues we were problem solving/remediating on many jobs. Some of those being rot, poor efficiency, safety, fire attenuancy, healthy indoor air quality.
So while I love working with wood, I started having real problems remediating rot with more organic materials. I began having conflicts when installing a $15,000 stair/handrail package on a home that costs a fortune to heat and cool. Living through 3 hurricanes in Florida made us aware of the opportunity costs lost in a community when structures are decimated. Like seeing firemen literally crying when their firehouse was demolished on their rescue equipment limiting their ability to respond to hurricane survivors.
So carpentry in fact being problem solving, we started looking at alternative building options, including upgraded stick frame, timberframe, SIPS, straw bale, rammed earth to name a few. We have settled on ICF’s, Insulating Concrete Forms as being the most proactive that we can find. When I say proactive, I mean that it has to be affordable for the working person, promote a healthy indoor environment, sustainable- through longevity, durability, and low maintenance- readily available and versatile for many different applications. So we use EPS (ahem, yes, petroleum based) and concrete (ahem, yes, high CO2 emmisions to create portland cement) to create viable structures. I believe that using these elements in an application which has no expiration date is still very responsible. (I rarely use the “green” word as there are so many greeniacs these days and its now so watered down, like organic…)
I encourage consumers to use as much “aesthetic” lumber as possible, leave the structure to inorganics. By following this method, one can now make use of beams that have excellent aesthetic value but little structural value.
For instance a home we assisted with in Jackson Hole this spring will look like a timberframe in all aspects, but the shell of the home is actually superinsulated concrete;ICF. Reportedly, the GC said that the timber package was largely paid for in savings by being able to use non structural beams and timbers…
It feels great to build schools that heat and cool 7 times cheaper than with concrete block, while providing a safer and healthier environment for children.
It feels great to work with the horses in our ICF shop while the Wyoming wind is howling outside too…
It feels great to build structures that may be gutted and remodeled countless times as they have done in Europe with their inorganice buildings. Our homes, should we choose to live in them long term, now become heirlooms, instead of money pits after 40 years.

As always, we just encourage the consumer to review their building options as they would a big screen tv or a truck, and make a best decision for themselves.
Enough of my shameless self promotion, believe it or not, I’m actually on this forum to learn so I can get out of construction!
And in my defense I am not trying to sell you anything, we are a 90% labor only company, which makes this “technology” available to the working class. Thanks again Henry Ford! Am I allowed to say that on a horse forum???

Kevin

[Gabe Ayers]

Kevin,

I am not sure how you will get out of construction and into the woods working real horses if you don’t want to use wood in every appropriate application possible?

I suppose it comes back to the old statement about wood being our renewable resource. I believe this – if it is sourced from restorative forestry techniques.

There are many examples of timber frame structures that are hundreds of years old. There are environmentally safe ways to preserve this wood. I also am not sure what the indoor pollution you are referring to as it relates to wood either? We use and recommend a non-toxic water based polymer finish on our floors and beams.

Yep, I drive a Ford to work every day too.

If I had my wish, I would drive my animals to the neighborhood woodlots and back to the barn every day. Unfortunately we haven’t managed to access every piece of woodland in our community, yet – but we are working on it. Every piece of forest that we do get to work on by a roadside adds to the understanding that animal powered forestry is real, available and a viable option. Every clear cut is a landscape scale advertisement for the contrary.

One of the biggest problems in our area is absentee landowners that pretty much manage by neglect or doing nothing, besides posting it with No Hunting signs, so the tall tree rats (whitetail deer) can proliferate beyond sustainable numbers. They often are the know it all types that Carl mentions and therefore are the least likely clients for our services. Our farm is sadly surrounded by such a landowner. The problem in this case is that these folks have no vision, no direct heirs (children) and when they pass it is a very likely outcome that some distant relative will cash it in to the highest bidder that will probably be a developer…usually preceded by a timber sale at the highest bid which will be a large sawmill that hires conventional foresters and conventional harvesting, meaning clear cut… I didn’t just figure this all out, I have simply observed it, all to often.

I understand that the forests doesn’t need us and that in 500 years the forests may completely restore itself. But we need the forests and the forest products available without destroying the ecosystem a forest is.
Our work is definitely an alternative to conventional forest products sourcing methods. The intent of restorative forestry is to correct bad practices of the past, while addressing human needs for forest products in the present.

It is not easy work, but it is good work if you can get it and do it. It is easier than trying to convince the public that clear cutting is a good thing, glad that isn’t my job, although it was pretty much the thrust of a forestry education during my time in college… What we all actually do speaks louder than our words, written or spoken.

[Jim Ostergard]

I live in a small timber framed cape that was built around 1840. Still got bark on the half-sawed floor timbers. Lets of work added or replaced in that time for sure. Summer kitchen now our bedroom, old indoor-outhouse the closet but it still goes and the homes healing spirit is felt by most who visit.
That said the old blacksmith shop I use as a hovel is falling down and I will use concrete to get the stalls under ground 3/4 the way around and hopefully have funds for Jason Glick to to a timber frame on top with pine I harvested with Rusty.
I drive an old Ford to the jobs also. Use the ’62 Mack to stack wood. All this only for perspective.
Interesting thread and a great Thanksgiving for all this and more.
jimbojim

[Carl Russell]

I can appreciate the comments by Kevin about longevity and affordability, but I have a slightly different twist on that.

I find wood, round log and timber frame to be my most preferred method of structural construction from the stand point of accessibility. I did use concrete in my foundation, and I had to buy that, but 75-90% of my home, barn, sugar house, and wood shed are made from material that I grew on my land, harvested with horses and cattle, sawed myself on my WM, and put together with my own design and skills.

I realize that my lifestyle is uncommon these days, but 100 years ago it was state of the art, and I believe that in 100 years it will be again.

Designing and building a structure with accessible materials, and utilizing skills allows, and perhaps requires, one to be prepared for the eventual repairs and upkeep. This is also a part of the past that has been throw away in modern culture.

I happen to loathe the thought of working to earn money to pay someone else to do the work that I require to survive. It just doesn’t make sense to me. On the same hand I am intrigued by the challenge to respond personally to my families needs, maintaining all manner of systems within our home, including septic, water, electrical, and structural, not to mention food, warmth, and motive power.

Seeing structural construction as only a component of our livelihood, it only makes sense to me to use material that is easily available, with methods and techniques that are relatively simple to master, and supported by a land-based lifestyle where the management of the forest resource not only delivers the necessary material but also many ecological and cultural benefits besides.

Carl

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