Too Much Land?

[Matthew Schofield]

Can anyone give me any insight on land? How much land is too much land, and what is too small? I am beginning my search, but other than hard facts from books, newspapers, etc., I do not know what look for. All of it depends on what you want to do (I would like a small family farm, a couple draft horses, dairy cow, goats, chickens, field for haying, pasture) but how do you all go about it? This is all very new to me and all the help I can get is most appreciated. One can only get so much from reading on their own.

[Carl Russell]

Sorry but I haven’t got the resources in front of me to give you the author’s name, but the book “Ten Acres Enough” does an excellent job of laying out a small diversified land-base such as you describe. Lynn Miller has long championed that title, and I have heard he is undertaking a reprint. That is just the tip of the ice-burg of your question, but perhaps a good place to start. Carl

[Patrick]

Some of it has to do with individual preference, what exactly you plan to do with it, and how self reliant you wish to be. I’ll tell you my experience.

When I started out with 35 acres, 8 years ago, I thought that it would be more than I could ever use. It still is, in some ways, but if I were to do it over again, I’d change a few things. My land is about 10 acres cleared, old pasture, 1 acre house and lawn, landscaped, and the remainder is wooded. Without any equipment, fences or animals to start out with, to keep the pasture in check, at first I’d wondered if I’d bitten off more than I could chew. Part of that was my over eagerness to establish gardens, both vegetable and ornamental, which were more than my time and equipment would allow to care for, and they soon got ahead of me. As I’ve slowly been making improvements, I’m now wishing that I’d held out for a property which had more pasture and less wood. I’ll never use the amount of firewood in 24 acres, but then I don’t heat primarily with wood either. We do have some beautiful walking paths through our forest, and although they don’t bring any monetary value to us, or help turn livestock into meat, you can’t put a price on how much pleasure we receive from them. If I were to do it over, I’d go for at least a similar amount, but try to find something that was at least half clear and half wooded. I don’t think that there is a maximum amount. I would buy whatever I could afford, looking for a property that is set up in such a way to be able to rent out extra pasture for hay or livestock, or wooded land with good timber that could be logged and sold, until I had a use for it myself.

[Kristin]

Matthew-

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with the comment about marketing in northern new york. Our members are a big ecclectic mix of professionals, retirees, blue collar workers, and lots of young families. We’ve had a waiting list for a year and a half. In our experience, the market is out there now. And there is more land than qualified farmers in our part of the world; there are even people willing to have you farm their land for free. We leased our place for free, including buildings and equipment, for four years before buying part of it. The landowner got ag property tax exemption, stopped having to pay someone to hay it for him, and we increased the value of it for him by being here and working it. It was a good deal for everyone.

I think you have to be creative when looking for a place to start out on. It’s not a matter of just scanning the real estate listings, unless you have a big fat trust fund, in which case you should ignore everything I’m saying. Stay away from debt, even in the form of a mortgage, until you gain experience and know what you truly love. That’ll sharpen the focus of your search and set your budget. Does size matter? Of course, but only to a certain extent. We have a friend who is building a farming business in Vermont with no land at all, borrowing barn space and pasture for his two milk cows, raising chickens and baking bread in his friend’s parents’ back yard. He’s saving money, and meanwhile he’s gaining skills and experience, seeing all sorts of farms and farmers, figuring out who/what to market (to), and building important relationships and friendships. He’s living rent free and pocketing all his farmer’s market profit to buy the right piece of land when it comes along. I thought that seemed a pretty smart way to go about it.

all best,
Kristin

[goodcompanion]

What is a good size farm for you depends on your talents and inclinations. Do you see yourself as a homesteader, focussing primarily on self-sufficiency while earning your cash otherwise, or as a farmer aiming to make your living from one product or several?

If farming for market, which field of endeavor appeals to you most? Meats? Dairy products? Vegetables? Grains and staple crops? Or you could treat timber as a market product, as Carl does, and market your own timber and the prowess of your team and your own forestry skills. Rare is the person who can excel simultaneously in all areas of farming and forestry.

Which brings me to another point. Do you envision working mostly on your own or will you depend on hired help of some kind? If so, how much help? One person or several?

Every piece of land will lead you in certain directions. Ideas you bring to it from elsewhere may not take root. Still, it’s worth keeping in mind your own interests and character and trying to match that with available land.

Personally I believe the surrounding community is also a major factor. This is your support system, your social network, and your market. It’s never too early to contemplate the basic unadorned math of farming.

Another thing worth mentioning is that there is a huge amount that one can lease for free or nearly free, at least in my neighborhood. Get yourself a functional base of operations and a feel for the neighborhood, and you may be able to do everything you like on borrowed land. For instance I was recently offered a free lease of a 20 acre cornfield across the road from me, because the landowner prefers my management to that of the industrial-scale dairyman who leased it up to this point. There are limitations, of course, but it’s cheap and you can refine your skills and approach to help you make a better purchase once you have some years and savings under your belt.

Erik

[Plowboy]

Buy as much as you can afford. Good land is getting developed and the prices are rising. If you think you’ve bought too much you can always sell some off as the value goes up. There are alot of variables as to what you are planning to do and the fertility and rainfall in the area you are looking. I have to disagree with the person that wrote the book. Ten Acres is not enough at least for me. I have 60 and plan to try and buy more from a neighbor if I can afford it.

[Kristin]

Hi Bret –
Beer and porn are hard to compete against, true enough. We are in Essex, NY, south of Plattsburgh. I’m sorry if my post was irritating. All I meant was that our members come from all income levels and types of jobs, and that while we’ve had plenty of difficulties in our five years here, marketing hasn’t been one of them.

But speaking of Northern New York, there’s a NOFA-sponsored CSA roundtable happening in Malone on Saturday, March 1. I won’t be there but Mark will, and Elizabeth Henderson is speaking. Anyone else from here going to be there?

all best,
Kristin

[goodcompanion]

@Kristin 981 wrote:

Beer and porn are hard to compete against, true enough.

This has to be a good candidate for the DAP “statements easily taken out of context” contest.

[Author]

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