Tractor? Or not?

[gwpoky]

I am posting this here because I trust and respect opinions the folks who post here. I am at a cross roads, I am either going to have to buy a tractor (which may mean selling one of my teams) or buy/build a power cart, of which is actually more expensive that the WD45 tractor I would most likely buy. I love my teams I love the work, but life has taken a turn and to continue working towards our farming goals I need to make a change. Environmental Sustainability is a big factor that keeps going though my head but I have to think about financial sustainability and the fact that there are only 24 hours in a day. If I owned all of my own land this would not be an issue, but being that I rent the balance of my land from a neighbor on shares (he uses tractors) I feel some tension building due to the pace and management practices we employ (I would like to cut and put up hay in waves of 7 to 10 acres at a time and he wants to take down all 30 and get it done, and I can see his point.) This issue is starting to keep me up at night. I would love to hear any input. Thank you for listening I appreciate all this community has to offer.

[Andy Carson]

I have several thoughts, George, if you are interested. Firstly, if you are happy with your animals and the progress you make, I would not get a tractor. It sounds to me that you would be getting a tractor to make your neighbor happy, which seems wrong to me. I have met many people that will never admit there is value in draft animal power (including some neighbors), and never fail to point out limitations. I have decided to agree to disagree with them. Most of the time, I can just walk away, but it sounds like you are stuck doing buisness with one. Perhaps there would be a way to change to nature of the arrangement? Perhaps your neighbor would be happy with a set number of bales per year or a set number of dollars per acre, which would give him no incentive to manage how you work the field. I understand these arrangements can be touchy, but I think this might be what I would propose. Perhaps the neighbor will go for it and it solves the problem… I think we both know that there are ways to get the work done with animal power, but sometimes it is hard and slow. I have always avoided owning a tractor because I feel I will go to it when there is alot of work to be done quickly or I am having some training issue. I feel that sometimes having an overwhelming amount of work that needs done at one time is a result of management mistakes on my part, and I need to suffer the consequences of those mistakes (rather than relying on a tractor to bail me out) so I don’t do it again. Likewise, I feel that having a tractor to “bail me out” of training issues will lead to animals that are less trained and less pleasureable to work with long term. I am sure everyone has different reasons why they farm, but working with animals and enjoying the quiet and peaceful solitude of nature is very important to me. I guess part of the answer to this question is what is important to you? If working with animals is very important, you might ask yourself “How does owning a tractor forward your goal of farming/working with animals?”

[J-L]

Tough spot George. I would ask myself one question; how much will you enjoy your farming with a tractor? If you can stand the thought of it then I guess going with the tractor would be okay. If not?
I’m kind of in the same spot. I have a lot of ground to cover for putting up my hay (nearly 300 acres), and it’s tough to try and do with horses and mules. I have been upgrading my equipment at every opportunity with an emphasis on my horses. I just did get a motor driven I&J mower to go with my JD4 and McD9 mowers. I know I can’t do it all with my teams at this time (have to bale and do some cutting with tractors), but can’t stand the thought of not using them as much as I can.
With a power cart and a 9′ swather or even a mower behind you can do a lot of work in a day.
I guess my vote is for you to stick with your ideology, get your power cart.

[near horse]

My question is regarding your agreement with your neighbor. If you are renting ground from him, what say does he have in how you farm it? In most cases, you are considered the operator – he, the owner. If you are paying cash rent, then his only concern is whether or not you make payment. IMO – he’s listening to too much jabber from his friends at the coffee shop/bar who chide him about your farming practices. We have plenty of “barstool farmers” here too – they rarely get dirty.

So, as I think others have said, go with what YOU REALLY feel called to do and not what someone else THINKS you should do. One added note – if you’re looking at a tractor that costs less than a power forecart costs, plan on spending even LESS time with your remaining team and more quality time with that tractor – it will eat your wallet and your time. Good luck with your decision but decide what’s best for you/your situation and goals, not someone else’s..

Sorry – I reread your post and see you do shares with your neighbor. How is that setup? He gets 1/3 and you 2/3 of the crop? Of the receipts? Who does the work etc …. ? If your landlord keeps giving you grief, I’d try for a cash rental agreement to quiet him down.

[Iron Rose]

George I can relate to what you are going through( been in your position before). Trouble is that there are only so many hours in the day. I run a mixed power operation and try to keep the emphasis on useing the teams, but like you I run a off farm business as well. If I could stay at home and and not have to earn living off the farm I

[Iron Rose]

Computor has a mind of its own tonight, will try later or you can give me a call and we can discuss your problems

Iron Rose
Dan Rasmussen
SE Mn

[gwpoky]

Thank you all for your comments, I know I have talked about this before on here, but it always becomes more pronounced when there is hay on the ground. My neighbor is a good person and I teach the farrier science short course with him at UWFR, I just want to make sure I am pulling my weight. Thanks again.

[blue80]

George, the new mowers can really lay down some hay. Just putting ours to consistent work this past week, rotating two teams every two hours for 11 hrs in the field I cut 20 acres on Tuesday using the I and j big cart and 9 ft. mower. So a weekend could lay down all your hay ready for raking and tractor baling….

Kevin

[gwpoky]

Kevin, I would love to get the I&J set up, but for 9 to 10K (forecart and mower) it is way out of my price range, I could buy a tractor and run it for years on that kind of money (I know money is not the only reason to do something, but we are running a business and have to take it into account). As much as I love working my horses my desire to farm is greater than my desire to farm with horse, but I am not sure I could bare to let one of my teams go, we will see.

[mitchmaine]

My dad bought a brand new ford 8n tractor the summer I was born. I still have that tractor. Although it is only worth about $1500 It is priceless in my book. it sat for years under a pile of horse blankets while I farmed and worked wood with my horses. This spring I drug it out of the bushes and a friend and I have started going through it. Wheel seals, top end, fuel and electrical systems, a 12 volt coil, and she runs pretty good for an old girl. Her paint is a little dull, but so is mine and I still fit into that spot that I wore in the seat. Anyway, it can still do work and I can find things to do with it. I used to worry a bit more about this question, tractor or not, but it doesn’t bother me so much anymore. The true question is probably do you farm to have horses, or do you use horses to farm, and that is of course a personal choice. My horses aren’t going anywhere yet, they are young and I will wear out before they do.
One thing I have discovered about myself is that if I haven’t hooked the horses in a while, bad weather or something, I start getting cranky and irritable. Penny notices, and says go hook your horses, and I do, and instantly feel better about the world. So they can be therapeutic.

[Robert MoonShadow]

I really like the way Andy stated it.
My question would be: Have you discussed this with your neighbor? I’m pretty outspoken, so my nature is to explain to him your concerns about ‘pulling your own weight’, while still maintaining your commitment to farming with horses. he might just see things your way, if it’s brought to his attention…if nothing else, it might help him to understand you better (always a good thing with neighbors, no?). And perhaps you can just rent/borrow a tractor to use during that one phase of farming (haying), if he insists on an ‘all-at-once’ approach.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Gpoky, Please don’t take offense, but I would not make this decision based on my neighbors thoughts on the usefulness of what I am doing. That is just me. There aren’t a lot of details in your post; but here are a few things I would consider. Perhaps they explain how and why I farm with horses. (I have an old tractor, 60’s?). I also have an off farm job – City Fire Department.
First, horses and horse power can be financially sustainable provided the scale is appropriate. That means the number of bales you can make equals the number you can need. The number of acres you want to plow and cultivate must equal what you can reasonable do. This is not meant to suggest that this is easy or it will work for everyone. Most all of us are making financial decisions today that are compromises. Where will we get health care? Day care? Education for our kids. All these things might make it hard to work with horses on a full time basis.

Environmental sustainability is great and I talk about that all the time, but truthfully that is not the first thing that motivates me to use horses. I all ways tell people working with horses is the funnest thing I have ever done. I have done a lot of fun things. When some one suggests how much quicker it would be to use a tractor on my farm, I tell them that is fine, go ahead. You will just have to do it without me because I will be off starting a horse powered farm some where. That usually quiets them for a while. Good luck and keep us posted. Donn

[jen judkins]

George, While I agree with all the comments made so far, I’d like to just add….owning a tractor is not that big a deal…karmically speaking. Like Mitch says, I work my horses because its important to my sanity and it always will be. But I have a thousand irons in the coals and sometimes getting something done in ‘x’ span of time is important to my sanity too:o.

I admire those who do it all with horses…serious admiration. I just don’t see how I could do that, the way my farm is set up. Maybe its a mental block, or a physical weakness (us girls have wimpy upper body strength) or maybe its because I owned a tractor before I owned my first draft horse, I’m not sure. But I run a small John Deere sparingingly. The big risk with a tractor, in my mind, is that when push comes to shove, and you are in a tight spot in regard to time, you will bypass the horses and put the key in the ignition. Happens to me a lot. Just last week, my nosey teamster neighbor caught me in the act of dragging my riding arena with the tractor. I’ll not live that down for some time.

[Baystatetom]

I don’t see a problem with hybrid systems. The same philosophy as was discussed in the Hybrid logging thread. Use each to its best advantage. And who says you have to buy a expensive tractor anyway? They can be rented or leased for short periods of time. You could rent one for a month and turn it back in at after your done with it.
~Tom

[near horse]

I don’t know where you’d rent a tractor around here. Might contract a neighbor to do the work with his tractor but most around here aren’t real keen on renting/loaning their equipment to others – too expensive to repair if there’s a “problem”.

And I will reiterate – inexpensive tractors are inexpensive for a reason. If you are willing to spend more of your time “bending wrenches” and looking for parts – great. But usually we’re looking for something to save time not take up more of it. So be aware that an old tractor can be less valuable than first anticipated.

I am not opposed to mixed power and in fact embrace it myself but I fell into the inexpensive tractor trap 2X – never again. It did help me some but it’s greatest contribution was to my blood pressure – went up 20 points.

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