We have sweat under the collar!

[Carl Russell]

Quote:

Teaming
cooperation
Joint work toward a common end.
coaction, collaboration, teamwork

I think the term comes more from the activity you are undertaking, than the thing with which you are engaged in the activity with.

Carl

[Jean]

I had to let his driving harness out several holes both front and back this spring, so perhaps he will grow into the D-ring this year.

Jen, what do you have for a driving harness? I bought one for Kruiser, for his road cart (speed/death trap), but it is too small for him. I don’t think I can use his D-ring, because the traces will not hook to silly little thing that the driving harness would have. I think I will sell the cart at the auction, but would like to try it to make sure it is not for us. Who knows maybe I would enjoy having him pull me at warp speed down the road.

Anyway, I would love to see Peanut in his “driving harness”.

Oh, Kruiser and I had a good day on Saturday. I went out with him and my husband. I am not sure what I was more nervous about me doing something wrong with Kruiser, or him jumping out of the cart at the slightest sign of trouble. Needless to say I gabbed at Kruiser the whole time. At one point (we have this on video, which I don’t think I will share), I actually said to him “Haw” (we really did need to take a sharp left turn), but then I said to him “good haw”! Well no kidding lady, we are still on the trail, if it had not been a good haw, we would have been in the woods! I could not believe how much chattering I was doing when I listened to the video. What a powerful tool the video camera is.

Jean

[jen judkins]

@Jean 7513 wrote:

Jen, what do you have for a driving harness? I bought one for Kruiser, for his road cart (speed/death trap), but it is too small for him. I don’t think I can use his D-ring, because the traces will not hook to silly little thing that the driving harness would have.

Anyway, I would love to see Peanut in his “driving harness”.

Jean, This is a photo of Peanut in his driving harness from last fall when he was at Ted’s place. Last month I had to let the breaching out 2 holes and the breast collar a similar amount. Luckily it barely fit him when I bought it…slightly too big…I did that on purpose, knowing he would grow more. I got it at Running Brook Farm in Brownsville, VT. Nice people. Its Beta and a draft size….really nice. Don’t have their website handy, but you can google it. The harness was a good deal at 550.00 if memory serves.

@Jean 7513 wrote:

Oh, Kruiser and I had a good day on Saturday. I went out with him and my husband. I am not sure what I was more nervous about me doing something wrong with Kruiser, or him jumping out of the cart at the slightest sign of trouble. Needless to say I gabbed at Kruiser the whole time. At one point (we have this on video, which I don’t think I will share), I actually said to him “Haw” (we really did need to take a sharp left turn), but then I said to him “good haw”! Well no kidding lady, we are still on the trail, if it had not been a good haw, we would have been in the woods! I could not believe how much chattering I was doing when I listened to the video. What a powerful tool the video camera is.

That’s an interesting and good observation. I have a tendency to chatter as well when I’m riding…either to whoever I’m riding with or to my horse if I’m alone. It wasn’t clear to me how counter productive that was till I started driving Peanut. He’s triing to learn what words mean, after all and my chatter just dilutes the meaning of those few words I want him to pay attention to. So I now have a strict ‘no talk’ rule when driving…except for a short list of acceptable words I want Peanut to respond to,…’walk on, whoa, gee, haw, easy, back up, step up….good boy’. Once he has learned these words, I suppose adding some conversation would not be wrong and might be the next step in his training…learning to distinguish between random words that aren’t directed at him, from those that are.

Its definately a sort of meditation to avoid the use of unwanted noise.

[Plowboy]

Jen, you may want to check around some more before you buy next time. 550 sounds like alot for a Beta breast collar harness. A significant cost of draft size harness is the hames and there are none with a breast collar. I know there are significant differences in costs from the source and retail outlets. However you have to also be sure that you are comparing similar quality products. Beta, Nylon,and Bio are all cheaper than Leather. I know that our local guy makes top quality harness and sells it for almost half what Meader Supply retails their harness for wether it be Leather, Bio, Nylon or Beta. While Meader does have everything in stock the consumer pays the middle man alot of cash for the convenience. Please don’t take this the wrong way I just wanted to let you know that there are severe price differences across the board. I remember when we first got started we dog eared a meader catalog and bought some small stuff but we did some more looking before we bought the major stuff and found out we could do much better right here locally.

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;7514 wrote:

……. I suppose adding some conversation would not be wrong and might be the next step in his training…learning to distinguish between random words that aren’t directed at him, from those that are.
……

I just wonder what benefit there would be to the horse. I am a firm believer in limiting myself to command. There is no doubt that a horse can be so sensitive to the driver’s voice that every time they speak the horse reacts, and that can be distracting if you want to stop and talk to your neighbor, but chatting with the horse while working is pretty unproductive, and un-necessary at best.

When working there is plenty of opportunity to speak the commands when they are needed. The exercise is to interrupt the cultural habit of speaking to “explain” yourself, and just being quiet, like the horse you are working with. Speaking too much can just tip the horse off to your anxiety level, and basically is a human habit that serves little purpose when working with a horse.

That is not to say that a statement of satisfaction is not appropriate, as the horse will pick up the intonation, and demeanor.

This may also be too basic, and I apologize if it is, but it seems to go along with what I wrote above. The horse is not learning the meaning of your words, he is learning to respond to your guidance that accompanies the words. We use words to denote, and alert the horse to the subtleties of the direction/guidance that we are giving. Horses can learn to respond completely to voice commands when they are conditioned to paying attention to voice for direction. The confusion comes when we use our voice for things other than commands.

Chatting while riding is a common habit, and less distracting and troublesome because of the rider’s communication through seat.

One man’s perspective, Carl

[jen judkins]

@Carl Russell 7527 wrote:

I just wonder what benefit there would be to the horse. I am a firm believer in limiting myself to command. There is no doubt that a horse can be so sensitive to the driver’s voice that every time they speak the horse reacts, and that can be distracting if you want to stop and talk to your neighbor, but chatting with the horse while working is pretty unproductive, and un-necessary at best.

Carl, I didn’t mean adding ‘chatter’ to the horse.:p I agree that this is counter productive and dilutes communication. I meant stopping to speak to a neighbor or to some other person nearby. Its hard to believe there is a situation where you wouldn’t at least occasionally need to speak words that should mean nothing to your horse.

[jen judkins]

@Plowboy 7519 wrote:

Jen, you may want to check around some more before you buy next time.

Will do. It does sometimes seem like you need a magic password to get info about local harness makers, though. I noticed you didn’t mention yours:p. The few times I’ve asked for local info, I get a mumble something like ‘Oh, We use so and so (first name only) over in somewhere’…no offer of a phone or address. Maybe I’m being paranoid:o

[Donn Hewes]

Couple more thoughts along the same lines as those above. Even in turning you don’t always need gee and haw. Generally, if is an “normal” turn, like going down the lane or out in a field I just turn with out saying anything. When a sharp turn is needed or one that is not what you would ordinarily expect it can be useful to give them a heads up verbally. You didn’t mention words for passing to the left or right with out going forward. I use them far more than gee and haw.

When you mentioned conversation I assumed you meant because there was someone there to talk to. In my experience horses and mules will quickly adapt to us talking to someone else while we drive. Here is the problem. Talking to someone else can easily become a distraction, and successful driving is all about paying attention constantly. Eventually you will become comfortable enough and skilled enough to pay attention to the driving and have a conversation at the same time, but it is not as easy as it sounds. Got to to go on a call.

[jen judkins]

@Donn Hewes 7530 wrote:

Generally, if is an “normal” turn, like going down the lane or out in a field I just turn with out saying anything. When a sharp turn is needed or one that is not what you would ordinarily expect it can be useful to give them a heads up verbally. You didn’t mention words for passing to the left or right with out going forward. I use them far more than gee and haw.

Donn, I use gee and haw for a side step with little or no forward motion, as in a tight turn. I don’t use those cues for regular turns, as you point out. Do you have other cues for side-stepping right and left (perhaps useful in backing up)? I’m not in a position to add more words to Peanut’s vocabulary just yet…need to learn the ones we have first.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Jen, i think peanut looked great the other day by the way. Nice and relaxed, nose into the barn. Perfect.

I started to type when I came back from the call but the computer timed me out. I use “come Gee” and “come Haw”. i usually use the horses name that is on the side I am going to. with a team of Andy and Kelly I would say “Andy come haw” or “Kelly come gee”, but I know this is one of the commands that a lot of different people use slightly different commands for. I only use a side pass when I have tongue or shafts. I really force my self to make a clear distinction between a tight turn and a side pass.

I just realized I can drive a fire engine to a fire and carry on a conversation and eat a sandwich at the same time; but I have been doing that a few days a week for twenty years. Wish I had been driving horses the whole time. In contrast I know that if I am talking to anyone while harnessing I NEED to double check everything. Just too easy to miss something while talking or teaching. Keep up the good work. Donn

[Ed Thayer]

Peanut is a great looking Belgian.

I thought the forward traces were too long as well. The girth strap looked a little far back. You did the smart thing buying a harness a little to big. That allows the room for adjustment you spoke about.

Les Barden told me a couple of weeks ago that the forward trace need not be longer than 22″ and 19″ was more desirable. The reason I asked was I had purchased a used D-Ring harness that was like new and I was unsure about the proper fit. He was very helpfull and aproachable

I actually purchased his video on the D-ring harness that he and Tim Huppe made and would be more than happy to share it with you if you would like. I am always looking for an excuse to take a ride and talk work horse:D

Our farrier came today and put shoes on Ozzie. Said his feet looked good but thought he might have a mild case of thrush. So I will be treating that for the forseeable future. My pasture is a total mess this spring. I can’t wait till things dry out.

Ed

[near horse]

Hey all,

I was gone all weekend to a horse & mule plowing event in central WA state and my horses – Red and Ranger – got some serious sweat under the collar and lots of other places mostly harrowing plowed ground – plowed soil was pretty soft and dusty (even while it was sleeting and raining – they only had 5 in of rain last year – total). Really was a blast w/ somewhere around 30 to 40 animals (mules and horses) on hand. Everything from a team of Haflingers on a harrow to 8 up mules on a 2btm plow. We were trying to work up 20 acres and, of course, the weather got wicked – windy 20 -40 mph w/ some sleet and drizzle and in the 30’s. Yikes but still great fun.

Red/Ranger and I were on a forecart and hooked up to 2 sections of spike tooth harrow (it is doable on pasture) and made 2 rounds when it became apparent it was too much. The harrow “tool bar” was just dredging its way through the soil (you could only see the adjustment levers on the harrow). R&R pulled like champs and put on quite a bit of sweat in those 2 passes – and they were long rounds. We switched to a single section of harrow and life got quite a bit better for all involved. WE ended up working all afternoon on Sat and about 4 hrs on Sun AM – Finish up w/ a 4 hr drive home

A few other notes, questions, comments on the event –
1) how do you overnight your team at these type of events? Tied up to trailer? Picket line? Small, temp paddock (poly or panels)? In trailer?
2) Does that change with weather conditions?
3) After a day of work and sweat and then rain wind and cold – do you blanket?
4) ever hear of wiping down shoulders w/ a “brine solution” (just salt water to toughen them up early in the season? Just something I saw.

Also, as many of you have mentioned already, you sure see a lot of different “styles” of horsemanship – it surely helps one define what type of teamster they want to be.

Hope I can make it to one of the plowing events that are scheduled over the next 2 or 3 weeks. There won’t be much activity here at my place because it snowed a few more inches while I was gone.

I’ll try and post some pictures if my computer will be my friend.

[jen judkins]

@highway 7548 wrote:

I actually purchased his video on the D-ring harness that he and Tim Huppe made and would be more than happy to share it with you if you would like. I am always looking for an excuse to take a ride and talk work horse:D

That would be awesome, Ed! I would love it! We’re pretty close…just up route 10 from you on the Grantham side of Springfield.

[near horse]

“can be distracting if you want to stop and talk to your neighbor, but chatting with the horse while working is pretty unproductive, and un-necessary at best.”

Carl – I agree that yapping at your horses CAN be distracting but if talking to your horses gets you out working them then it’s not so unproductive – might bore the horse but certainly produces “sweat under the collar” if that’s what it takes to get you out there enjoying being with your animals. If working your horses becomes too rule-laden to enjoy it, you’re not likely to want to go out and work them and that’s not good for anybody.

[Jean]

Wanted to clear up that it was me that talked about chatting too much to my horse, not Jen.

I appreciate all the responses and it has clarified my thoughts on the chatting. Keep it to a minimum! I thought I was a quiet person, but I think that Kruiser would disagree with me.

Near Horse, I hear you about if that is what it takes to get me out there working him, then it is better than nothing. I think that I am reassuring him, but in reality I am reassuring myself.

Jean

[Author]

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