Workers Comp

[Rick Alger]

I heard back from the Workers Comp guy. He said he discussed the issue of lower rates for animal powered loggers within his NH office and also by conference call with NCCI ( the company that administers Workers Comp in most states)

They were not opposed to establishing a separate rating class for animal powered loggers.

To do that they need data on actual cases of animal powered logger’s claims for lost wages and medical expenses.

Any suggestions on how to collect the data?

[Scott G]

Rick,
I know Canada keeps stats nationwide. Matter of fact I ran across a report on the web not too long ago re: a logger that got squashed in the bight between a tree and his horse; it was a fatality.

My guess is that the data may be skewed since we are such a small minority in the big picture and many horse loggers do not have insurance; therefore it would only be reported through the ER at the hospital or the Coroner’s office.

If you look at chainsaw incidents from ER reports they are never specific. Only division is between injury vs death and what body part was the unfortunate one. There is usually no clarification between professionals and homeowners unless work comp is involved.

You will need an accurate estimate of horse loggers in your State and then conduct some type of anonymous and non-biased survey. Talking to the folks in your local timber industry association would probably be a good start, even though that will undoubtedly be painful for you. I wouldn’t mention you are negotiating lower rates; just that you are looking for numbers.

[Rick Alger]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The guy I talked with was all for multi-state data. He is aware that the number of animal loggers is small. He is also aware that many of us run under the radar. And he is willing to admit that the current rates are very high.

What we need is a separate classification category.

He says he is willing to work with us on this problem, but right now there is no data to use to develop a separate category for animal powered loggers.

If we ever got to the point where there was sufficient data, the separate category would not be created by the state of NH. It would be created by the company that administers WC in 35 states, NCCI.

If a separate category was established, the rate might vary state-to-state, but it would be lower than the conventional logger rate in the respective state.

It will take years. I’m willing to put some time into this if there is any interest. If there is no interest, please let me know.

[Rick Alger]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The guy I talked with was all for multi-state data. He is aware that the number of animal loggers is small. He is also aware that many of us run under the radar. And he is willing to admit that the current rates are very high.

What we need is a separate classification category.

He says he is willing to work with us on this problem, but right now there is no data to use to develop a separate category for animal powered loggers.

If we ever got to the point where there was sufficient data, the separate category would not be created by the state of NH. It would be created by the company that administers WC in 35 states, NCCI.

If a separate category was established, the rate might vary state-to-state, but it would be lower than the conventional logger rate in the respective state.

It will take years. I’m willing to put some time into this if there is any interest. If there is no interest, please let me know.

[Rick Alger]

Thought I would summarize where we are on the topic of Workers Comp.

Most everyone posting on this thread has used the “independent contractor” status for people working at their site. Jim offered how they do it in Maine, and it seems to be the best model. Each individual gets a written waiver from the WC Board, and then they contract independently with the landowner.

The dicey part is covering interns, apprentices, and rookies. As Taylor said, when someone gets hurt the courts decide who is an employee and who is a contractor.

If the WC rates were reasonable, it would be simple enough to cover folks who weren’t at the contractor stage. Suggestions to bring the rates down include:

Lobbying efforts linked with large environmental groups

Joining forces with other niche business like blacksmiths etc.

Pooling across state lines to form a new category for animal powered
loggers.

All three of these ideas could work together. I’ve done some work on the pooling idea, and will be pursuing it further in April with an advocate in the NH Insurance Comission. We need a way to provide hard data to show that animal logging is safer than cable skidder logging. Scott is planning to help collect data. More input will be appreciated.

[Rick Alger]

Scott, Jason, Taylor, Lancek, Jim and others,

There is a person on the DAP board with 17 years experience as an insurance agent, Logger’s Wife. I’d like to get her involved in this thread. What do you guys think?

[Gabe Ayers]

Seems like a good idea to get any help available for this tuff nut to crack.

~

[Scott G]

I’m on board with that, Rick. I think bringing anyone in who is associated with business that directly affects draft powered forestry and could further our cause would be more than acceptable. There are a few folks from different professions/vocations that are critically involved before/during/after a logging operation.

I am begining to wonder if bringing the sub-forums onto the public site might be worthwhile. We might get some new & fresh input. It would also demonstrate that this effort is progressive and trying to get somewhere. If we could get the other sub-topics we discussed up & running that would be helpful as well.

-Scott

[Scott G]

Here is the incident I referred to. Looks as though it happened in ’89 and the man was very experienced. I would write it off as your basic horse wreck which most of us have walked (or limped) away from several times.

http://www2.worksafebc.com/i/posters/1989/fatal8902.html

-Scott

[Rick Alger]

Scott,

Thanks for digging this up. It’s not a common occurrence, but it does make you think about the advisability of insurance.

On a related note, can you think of a way to admit Logger’s Wife to this discussion?

[Scott G]

@Rick Alger 15199 wrote:

On a related note, can you think of a way to admit Logger’s Wife to this discussion?

…ask Carl to and he’ll take care of it.

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