[Gabe Ayers]

The style of horses being just tall may be changing. I was at the National Shire Show in England and the Grand Champion was a shorter stouter looking horse than what I expected. Maybe that was just a choice by those particular judges, one of which was a Suffolk person. But just the fact that a reasonable height horse was presented was worth noting and that it won was remarkable.

I think the longer coupling came from the attempt to get the Suffolk taller. I think the top line is important regardless of the comparative coupling. We have several stout Suffolk horses in the US that are longer backed and have stood up to a lifetime of heavy work in the woods.

The English will have to fully accept importations eventually, they are running out of genes in the old country to continue the breed without new blood. These associations and societies are a bit full of themselves on both sides of the pond.

Some believe that the survival of all the draft breeds will eventually be based upon their ability to work. The hybrids do have hybrid vigor. But you can’t get that without purebreds, so we need all of them to have our best opportunities to produce serviceable, durable, tractable working animals.

Both the horses Simon posted photos of are substantial animals, weighing in the ton range. He would know what they look like across the U.K. since we saw over 160 during the 12 days touring under his guidance. He does have his favorite Suffolk Punches too, just ask him…

[Gabe Ayers]

What is CPL?

I heard there were a few Suffolk Punch horses in Scotland, not many but some. Plenty for sale in England and a few in Ireland.

Maybe if you cross them, you will be doing what was done many years ago by breeders that made that choice for their own reasons. We found the Suffolk horses to be cheap enough in the U.K. that one could be bought for a reasonable price.

~

[Gabe Ayers]

Here is a testimonial from a fellow in New Zealand – Jason Cruse

Seems awfully appropriate to this thread….just one guys experience…

Hey Jason hope you and your family are well.I have just finished my first contract with the department of conservation logging 200 tonne of western red cedar from regenerating native.This job went real well my last day i had an open day and let people including local media photographers come and watch had alot of positive feed back.Logging douglas fir at the present for another NZ DRAFTWOOD log home this one is for an eco sub division so should lead to further work.Start a contract next week 1500 tonne of chestnut this should keep me out of trouble for a while.Anyway mate I’m keeping busy and spreading the word while making a dollar LIVING THE DREAM.Thanks again

~

[Gabe Ayers]

Jason-
I spoke with Joshua, and it sounds as though his mare is not the right fit for me. He will likely be in touch with you.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

That sounds better, let her stay in the region. There could be a good stallion for her to be bred to around NE.

~

[Gabe Ayers]

Joshua-
She sounds worth me taking a look. How much are you hoping to get for her? I am in Randolph Center and could come up sometime soon for a look.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

Matthew,

There are on easy answers to your question or dream.

Healing Harvest Forest Foundation was granted public charity status based upon the understanding that the work we were doing, promoting and educating the public about the benefits of – were not profitable to the level of making a living in the modern world with all the costs you mention. Yet this work is for the “public good”.

If being and living in a sustainable way was easy, everyone would already be doing it.

Some suggestions that are factors of some of the more successful practitioners are obvious. We don’t have all the answers and struggle to survive every day, week, season and year.

Live in a part of the country where the land prices are not off the scale of anyone being able to afford it from living on it and the resources of the surrounding community. This may limit ones ability for the spouse to have a high paying job with the safety net features that many folks want and feel they have to have to be secure. So that is a challenge. It is all a challenge.

There may not be such a place on earth anymore. The dominant paradigm, status quo, conventional loggers, foresters and supporting interests, globalization…. etc., have successfully lowered the value of natural resources and the raw materials that most “horse loggers” produce that it is nearly impossible to make an economic success supplying that market. That market is currently being filled with fossil fueled fired mechanization that is harvesting at unsustainable levels, particularly from a planetary perspective.

The point of those statements are to suggest that a “horselogger” not compete with machines in supplying commodity defined goods but work in a setting that pays for the quality of services not just the production of goods.

I would say there is a certain value to your interests and dreams about being a horselogger that would make just being involved on a part time basis worth doing. The culture of this skill base is becoming more valuable all the time and your dream is a worthy one.

I won’t write anymore at this point but would invite your continued investigation into this culture in any way possible.

There seems to be a disconnect between the ability to make a sustainable living and being acceptably low income or poor. Some have been poor all our lives and this is nothing new and of course some have been at this lifestyle and culture for longer and that certainly gives some advantage in land ownership or long term rental from the government.
In this sense 100% – everyone on this board is in the same stoneboat.

~

[Gabe Ayers]

Josh,

Is this mare registered and if so what is her name?

We have some smaller mares we would trade with you possibly. We like em bigger for our big hardwoods down in Appalachia.

Thanks,

Jason

~

[Gabe Ayers]

Joshua-
How old is that mare? What has she been used for? Does she stand for shoeing? Any health issues? Weight? Thanks.
-Brad

[Gabe Ayers]

I think she is a henny = pony over donkey. That’s what the short ears suggest.

~

[Gabe Ayers]

A young horse that has accepted you in a round pen will try to follow you off when you leave them anywhere. It is their natural instinct after accepting you as their leader.

~

[Gabe Ayers]

It is worth noting here that although leather is better in some circumstances, much of that rubbing you are describing depends on the individual horse. For example, we used three horses this winter for logging, and all three went both single and double, loose and on arches. Only one of the three had any rubbing at all, and he was in a leather harness with leather traces. The other two were in leather and biothane and had no rubbing at all on the gaskins. We spent a great deal of time fiddling with Dan’s rigging but he still rubbed a bit. He is a long legged Belgian cross with a somewhat unusual body type and he jest seems more prone to the traces rubbing. Also, I used a single Belgian a great deal in the woods for field work (including haying) in Maine and she never had a bit of rubbing with a basic nylon harness, no matter what you put her on.

[Gabe Ayers]

I have been following this thread for some time, and I am glad to see the range of points that have been raised here. I have a single draft that I use on our small farm, and we also log to generate some income. This revenue helps to offset the costs of keeping our draft, including hay, grain, farrier and vet sevices, etc. I have kept detailed records of money spent and income generated from our single draft. We do not own a tractor, though I have spent a great deal of time thinking about whether or not a used machine would be a wise investment.

So, here are a couple of points I would add to this discussion. I agree with those who pointed out that the cost we you pay to have a farrier come and work greatly depends on what part of the country you live in. Here in Vermont we are long way from any significant Amish population or other folks that rely on horse power on a regular basis. It is easy to get a tractor tire patched and filled, but much more difficult to find a ferrier who will do drafts (and impossible to get someone qualified to shoe for the prices some of you have mentioned). We pay more here for horse purchase, feed, shoeing, and equipment (just like we pay more for gas than they do in the midwest). Let’s put it this way – I can get a gallon of maple syrup down the road for $40. Folks in Iowa might pay a fair bit more, but that is the price you pay for that product in that market. And, my farrier is no duramax driving, boat shoe wearing con-artist. He is a hardworking guy who provides a necessary service. His work on our draft earns him a bit less than $50/hour, not including his time to prep shoes and his costs for supplies. The decision as to whether or not to do it myself is a personal decision based on my own skills, finances, and time, and I don’t feel bad at all paying him to do this work for me. He does good work and charges a reasonable rate.

Also, when I consider the overall finances of owning and working horses one of my main reasons for using horsepower (beyond the fact that I like it much better than sitting on a tractor seat) is that given the costs associated with buying and maintaining even a small tractor that would meet our needs, horsepower is way cheaper. A small used, 4WD machine in good condition that I could run in the woods and for fieldwork would run me $10,000-15,000. My single horse, used trailer, harness, arch, woods tools, and annual costs don’t come anywhere close to that cost. I can own this horse for a long time before I have anywhere near that much money invested. Yes, it would be cheaper to shoe myself but at this time it is a cost that I am more than willing to bear. When you add it all up, my income generated with the horse more than pays for the investment, even with the farrier costs. And, I have a lot more fun with the horse…

[Gabe Ayers]

There are members of all these groups that speak English. I have emailed the fellow at Perfdstarke (sp) (German) asking for some better photos of the meeting if he would share them to accompany a small article about FETCU for the pubs.

It was amazing being the only American in the room, yet I never felt alone a single moment. The horsemen are awesome and about the same everywhere it seems.

I will keep us in touch with the group as best as possible.

More later,

Jason

[Gabe Ayers]

Andre-
Do you have a foal yet?
-Brad

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