[Gabe Ayers]

Well there will always be rule breakers and lazy sots that don’t care about the impact of their activities on the natural world. This is why the common values of water quality allow the government to reach out into the private forests to insure that folks are using Best Management Practices in Virginia. It is said to be voluntary application of BMP’s here, but there is a law behind it where the local state forester can enforce BMP’s and fine the loggers for such damaging impact, which include shutting the entire operation down and monitoring the clean up process.

It is also interesting to know that the strongest resistance to BMP’s being mandatory was/is from the conventional forest products industry. This is a right to work state and the basis for logger training is lowering workmen’s comp rates and insurance, not protection of the environment.

There are problems associated with this behavior. Firstly there are only so many public foresters to monitor all logging operations. This is why Va. implemented a mandatory logger notification system where within three days of the beginning of operations that the logging job must be reported to the state forester or be subject to fines. The public foresters will issue a NORA or notice of required action. I was asked once years ago at meeting we made
presentation about modern animal powered forestry how many NORA’s had we had, and I didn’t even know what it was…because of course we had never had one.

So, in Virginia there is a small non-profit group called Virginia Forest Watch that acts like a neighborhood crime watch that reports logging jobs to the public forester so they can be inspected for adherence to BMP’s. This group has volunteers that ride around in the rural parts of the state making sure that logging jobs are on the list of the public forester. It is interesting how many jobs they find that are are not reported. I don’t have recent data on that, but was surprised by how many they found in the beginning of this group.

I am not in the habit of bashing conventional ground level practitioners, since for the most part their work speaks for itself and the private forest landowners tend to make their choices from what they frequently see from the roadside or in the community somewhere. A big ugly clear cut on a mountainside is a landscape scale billboard for what most people don’t want. I just don’t have or choose to spend time to talk down conventional practices.

I would say that for the most part these guys don’t try to make a mess they just can’t help it given the size of their machinery and the requirement to work everyday in order to make the payments of that capital intensive harvesting equipment. I would also say that I know many responsible conventional harvesters that use many modern ways of lowering impact, such as temporary bridges, mats at the landings, geo-textile cloth under their haul roads, lots of rock and such and one really sensitive issue is putting a mud trail out into the paved road…that is a tell tell sign of a logging job that the above mentioned VAFW looks for from the ground.
The biggest problem with conventional harvesting is the silviculture first and the extraction impact as a manifestation of disregard for the environment.

I think the purpose of these u-tube postings are to show off the capacity of these machines to go anywhere and through anything. I would also say that if they are going to pay for those big machines they will have to pull better logs than the stick they had behind that machine…. Of course riding the machine other than in the cab is probably not an OSHA approved personnel
transport method….

The whole point of modern mechanized harvesting is often presented to lower the accident rate of loggers or increase operator safety by “getting them off the ground”. Well they have succeeded in that many conventional loggers are completely out of touch with the earth….

[Gabe Ayers]

Maybe someone can author a press release to be submitted to the print pubs of the animal powered industry, DHJ, RH, SFJ, and any other pubs that may be interested in this groups efforts and modern animal power.

What Carl has already posted seems pretty good to me. I suppose we would have to add some print contact info since everyone doesn’t have the internet.

Or at least this is something we can think about to formally put the group in the public view on a larger scale.

We will definitely post information about DAPFI on the HHFF site, but that and all the internet efforts are limited at this point, so hard copy presence should be something we work on next, along with some officers or structure to keep up with all/some of it.

What do you all think?

BTW – we have about six inches of wet snow now hardened by overnight drop in temps and it is winter in the Appalachians…. for sure. Now the slow down of work begins and hopefully we have things we can all continue to do to generate income and further our success economically.

Thanks for all the efforts you all have put into this.

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

Well by now you all know I’m going to say the same stuff no matter who’s reading it…

yes

But we should agree that aggravating stupid distracting questions should not be tolerated. We don’t have to waste our time on people that will slow down the progress toward reaching those who are already as committed to this work as us and have earned our community support. Or slow our connections with those who may become as committed and grow our community beyond what we all collectively know it to be.

Glad to hear John is on a good job and Scott is working himself blind and we all have allot of winter in front of us…

[Gabe Ayers]

Vicki,

Can you get Braint to participate in this forum?

He has truly earned a place in this community of interest. I have met he and his father a few times over the years and he is a good hand.

At least make him aware of it and telling Jason Rutledge was bragging on his skill and called him a “bull of the woods” kind of guy.

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

Well being one the elders that had to accept loss of vision (when looking at objects close up) a few years about, at about 45 years of age, I have learned to deal with it.

If your normal vision is still good enough to work safely without bi-focals then just simply don’t use them unless you need clear close up vision. For instance I don’t put mine on unless I am reading small print of sharpening the chainsaw.

Most of the other work of this art and skill doesn’t require close up viewing of details, so I just carry them in my shirt pocket and only use them when needed for the lost of close up clarity.

Now, I once had a high priced pair of prescription no line bi-focals and experienced the same dizzying side vision and stumbling adjustment when looking at the ground. So I just bought a cheap pair of reading glasses the 1.25 version and that way when I crush them by leaning over a log or some other contact with my shirt pocket, I am not out several hundred bucks for new prescription glasses. I think there is a certain determination to not have to wear glasses at all times, if you had normal 20/20 vision before becoming an elder….you may be able to get by with just reading glasses when you need them to aid your aged eyes.

Welcome to the top of the hill brother man, your vision is still much further than your grasp, it is a common situation for all of us older folks.

I think making your eyes work for you without the optical aids keeps them stronger longer. Oh and I should mention I lost the high priced titanium no line bi-focals a few years ago and refuse to by more and came to the cheap reading glasses as an affordable default to be able to read normal print. I wear them when working on this computer too… I just keep a few pair around and the more scratched up ones stay in my work clothes and the newer ones stay on the desk in the house.

Hope this helps,

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

DAPFI –

Here is a cut copy paste of an email exchange with Jason Cruse the Kiwi Horselogger in New Zealand.

The point in posting is that the development of markets for services and goods can be differentiated through defining what you are doing yourself. There are currently no other interest groups that will help us folks, so enjoy being on your own… it presents the independence that we all crave and may make the most of, yet share with others, in this case down on the opposite side of the globe, outreach indeed. For the good of the forests….. I will

cut, copy, paste of my email thread with Jason Cruse “Kiwi Horselogger” below:

Thanks mate the draughtwoods going good logged 1 log cabin i will send you some photos when i get round to taking some.I have a sawmill who specializes in supplying timber for eco houses who will take care of saw milling and marketing the timber i need to concentrate on logging for now.Draughtwood with be a product name for anyone selling low impact timber in NZ.My company will be called draft works. i have had so much positive feed back its overwhelming hope to be full time in the new year.We have just finished a heath and safety plan for horse logging in NZ which is quite a mission over here OSH or occupational health and safety are very strict and there has been no professional horse loggers here for a long time.But all done now next big job starts on the 28th of December and that is western red cedar for department of conservation they let someone have a go with a skidder 3 years ago and they made a hell of a mess so we will so perfect opportunity to promote what we are all about.Any way mate thanks again
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 3:26 AM, Jason Rutledge wrote:

I don’t know the contact for that company either, I just heard about the hydraulic drive wheels system recently. Post something on http://www.draftanimalpower.com web site and see if someone knows.

I think Peach Lane Harness Shop in Pa. will ship to you. They don’t have interenet, but a phone number. They do make D-Ring and are exculsively nylon.

I would ask both questions on DAP.

Good to hear from you mate, how is the DRAUGHTWOOD product development project going?

Salute,

Jason Rutledge

---

Original Message

---

From: jason cruse
To: Jason Rutledge
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: down under thunder

Hello Jason hope all is well with you and your family i was just wondering if you had some web addresses for horse drawn fowarders iv tried to find m&s jumentum but have been unsuccessful i like the sound of them because of the drive motors on the rear wheels.I thought you may know someone who has one.I am in the process of building the log arch i down loaded off your web site i need it for my next job have about a 300 mtr pull.also i was wondering if you could advise on a good harness maker that would send harness to NZ i have some leather harness but was after some nylon gear probaly a d ring set.Thanks again mate for your time

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 11:27 AM, jason cruse wrote:

Sure mate sounds good. Jason Cruse 42 brett road rd3 rotorua New Zealand post code 3073

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Jason Rutledge wrote:

Jason,

Could you send me a regular mailing address so we can put you on the International Animal Powered Forestry Associations mailing list, if you are interested.

Jason Rutledge

jason cruse wrote:

Hello Jason i was thinking about what you said about naming our product and was wondering if you would mind if i called it NZ DRAUGHTWOOD.If i could use what you are doing over there as a guideline for what I’m doing here it would be a huge advantage but i wouldn’t do it without your approval.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Jason Rutledge > wrote:

Jason,

Make up a name for your product that defines it as being from
horse logging and sell your services based on that superior
sourcing method. You may see what we do with the DRAFTWOOD brand
at: http://www.draftwood.com <http://www.draftwood.com/>

Glad you are working mate.

Jason Rutledge
http://healingharvestforestfoundation.org
<http://healingharvestforestfoundation.org/>

jason cruse wrote:

Hey Jason how are ya mate just thought i’d let you know I’m
logging douglas fir at the moment for a log cabin that will be
the ranger station in the new yogi bear movie. the guy who is
building it from NZ log homes contacted me as he thinks horse
drawn logs will work in well with his methods
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:38 PM, jason cruse

>>

wrote:

Yea i knew i should have used the sled but it would have
taken me
20 minutes to go and get it and i was short on time and I’m an
impatient son of a bitch.The bit i use came with the Samson
logging harness i found over here but i will look into a
level bit
probably be good investment that was not the first fence
destroying episode Ive had with that horse but man can he pull
logs.I have contacted Rien a couple of times and hope to
catch up
with him at some time he would be priceless in reinforcing my
ramblings about modern horse logging with the forest company’s
over here as i don’t have professor in front of my name.He
sounds
like a good man and i look forward meeting him thank again for
your advice.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Jason Rutledge

>> wrote:

Well, if they have legs they will run….. especially
if they
haven’t worked for a while and another prey animal displays
fear and flight. It just makes sense for any prey animal to
run away when another prey animal does the same. I am
glad you
guys are not hurt and that you have plenty of work in
front of
you.

Maybe next time you can put a sled or something behind the
horse that is going out for the first work in a while.
I don’t
like free rolling stock, it is to easy to run away
with. Are
you using a level bit on your horses? We only use that
bit and
adjust it according to the response to the bit. Some don’t
need much leverage and others have to have a serious
signal in
their mouth to slow down or stop.

Did you ever get in touch with the professor Rien
Visser over
there?

Good to hear from you mate, stay in touch.

Jason Rutledge

[Gabe Ayers]

Simon,
I suspect it is not the same guy as Jason Cruse. This fellow and I have been communicating about the development of his work in NZ for a few years now. I can’t imagine that if he were in your home town and met one of your sons that he wouldn’t come up in the woods and see you working and meet you all in person. My take is that he is more serious than that and I assure you that if I ever make it over there your biggest concern will be me getting in your way…. although I would try to be useful, even if it were just moving brush from your trails.

On that note the “handles” are confusing and there may be more than one person calling themselves Kiwi Horselogger. Because my work is connected to a Public Charity and I have no proprietorial ownership of that work or words describing it, I use my real name as well as a handle.

I am going to cut copy and paste a conversation we have been having about how Jason Cruse this Kiwi Horselogger is developing his business in NZ. I will post it in the DAPFI area, since I have been waiting for him to give me his permission to share the story. I am confident he will so I will share the story with that limited audience at this point, hopefully to inspire others to work similarly in their communities and countries.

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

Well, we have the old computer back on line so to speak and here is attached a photo of the landing at lunchtime. We were skidding out of a wooded section on a north face and were bringing logs across the face and down the edge the photographer was standing on. It was a one day deal and set up this way for the ease of the visitors. This piece of bottom ground is to wet to have enough access to be a full time landing or processing site.
We sawed about 1500 board feet of Cherry and harvested about 40 logs otherwise. We had three teams on site and mostly talked and visited with visitors. We did do a hillbilly four up on a 12 foot red oak butt log that was 28 inches on the little end… We just can’t get the truck in there to move it to the market in the current wet conditions.

We had around 50 – 60 folks throughout the course of the day, very good public attendance from our perspective. It lead to several more private forestland owners that wanted our services and at least two seriously interested potential practitioners.

I am currently writing an article about this event for RH. This is something each of the folks that are practicing restorative/improvement and therefore sustainable forestry could do if they want to find the best sites in their communities to work. It is about educating the landowners that they can have their cake and eat it to. They may manage their forests without destroying it, generate income while protecting aesthetic natural beauty. Maybe the LO’s get more involved in the management themselves by learning about special forest products and possible doing some of the TSI work themselves, harvest firewood for themselves and just generally enjoy their woods. We have reopened two old roads into a couple of woodlots on the property. These roads are just being used as skid trails at this point. Since this our winter worksite we will skid further to be sure to get the wood to the improved roadside and markets regardless of weather. You know what that means – within reason – if the weather gets so bad everything else shuts down so will we…

You may notice that the one team has the tongue on the ground, that’s the one without the d-ring harness…not ours…

[Gabe Ayers]

I got back in touch with Meader’s about the length of the front tugs and they claim they are working on it with their PA based harness shops. I won’t hold my breath.

And Carl, I have to say I disagree on the leather only for harness. I used to have a similar leather only bias, but I have now used leather as well as nylon and biothane. The leather is traditional and aesthetically pleasing, but you can’t beat the biothane on easy of cleaning, weight, or price. The leather may last longer, but I am not sure of that at this point as I have not had my harness long enough…

[Gabe Ayers]

Maybe LanceK Tim will start manufacturing heavy duty horse drawn forwarders…. I would like to have one…

Great story, just exactly what we all could do with a little planning and market development.

According to the USDA there is $30 of finished product in every $1.00 of raw hardwood log value. Our aim is to capture as much of that $29 that we can and share it fairly with our LO and community value adding support system.
Keep more of the money in the community were the resources are extracted from and create a constituency for the best care of the source – forests.
This is ‘treeroots’ community sustainable development and common sense.

[Gabe Ayers]

Matt,

Thanks for that comment sir. For us down here in Appalachia – the third world of America,the Rural Heritage Magzine hasn’t made it here yet. I know Joe put allot of time into this coverage and that he never spoke to or filmed me personally which I am very happy about. This group and our efforts are about much more than me, I just happen to be the oldest horse in this herd or one of, because I am not as old as Jimmy Brown or Mike Barrick. I would follow those old hands just about anywhere.

I look forward to seeing the pub.

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

Wow, this is another great thread woodsmen.

I will add a few thoughts. The integrated systems (machines and animals) should be used by all of us that are committed to animal powered extraction to increase our production, competitiveness, safety and efficiency at producing the products we can use to generate income to make a living at this work. There are specific applications of integrated systems that are usually defined by the topography, volume of wood, size and weight of wood, available from the sites we are working on.

There is definitely a need to design and manufacture horse drawn forwarders that will handle heavier hardwood species and lengths that allow marketing for maximum value. These machines could be designed to have the hydraulic motors to assist in pulling the load (Simon), as well as all load carrying wheeled braking to hold the loads back on downhill hauling. The flotation tires with grip treads on the drive and carrying wheels would be great. A device of this nature would be heavier and more for the animals to move in any condition, but this additional weight would not be beyond the capacity of most stout logging horses, oxen or mules. If one needed some more power, just add some work stock to the team or simply make smaller loads and more trips. We often have pulled our trucks into the job as the first effort for two teams and once loaded, out of the job as the last effort of the day.

This group could help with the development of such tools for our collective use, but it will not be affordable if we use the normal manufacturers that look for a high profit margin to take on a new line of equipment. We may have to research this among our membership.

Roads

Most of the sites we work in already have clear evidence of roads and trails from previous extraction – for an experienced woodsman to observe. It is often a matter of clearing these old skid tails and opening them up for use in this harvest rotation. So in these case we have no need to build new roads, just use the ones already there. We find that in most cases these roads are designed quite well in relation to the landscape topography, because if they aren’t designed well, what used to be a road or skid trail would now be a gully or highly eroded area. Most of our landscape is mountainous or hilly to say the least and or predecessors were truly doing this for a living and the ability to work consistently meant they would put their roads on the backbone of the ridges so they drained well and water didn’t follow their disturbance down the hill and become so muddy that they couldn’t use them daily. It was just common sense for them because the had to keep working to eat, so they didn’t skid in the confluence or where the water naturally will run off.

The criticism of animal powered harvesting noted by most conventional foresters is often about the limited skid distances that we generally work (500 feet or less). This criticism is hard to reconcile with the reality of the forestland being now owned by more and more people in smaller and smaller tracts. This trend is amazing and will not stop anytime soon. These smaller tracts also have some of the best timber currently available and we are the niche harvesting system that can access it for several reasons.

I have written about this many times and probably somewhere on this site before. Here is a quick run down on the demographics or relationship between people and land ownership conditions.

In 1999 52% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 40 acres or less owned by private individuals.
In 2007 71% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 10 acres or less owned by private individuals.

So now – the dominant forested landscape condition is in smaller tracts that are not available to mechanized harvesting for two main reasons. First the landowner won’t allow it to be clear cut or high graded, second the mechanized operations can’t afford to move from site to site without taking all the timber available to pay the expense of moving big equipment around.

It should be noted that the collection of this data was not to support our approach, but to express concern that the sawmills (primary processors) would run out of material to keep the largest industry in the state running – if they didn’t find a way to access this raw material. I was alerted to the study by a rare forester that supports animal powered techniques. We use it often to defend our work to educate and develop more Biological Woodsmen.

Back to roads – roads are expensive to build and require machinery cost also.
On most smaller tracts they are not necessary and as mentioned are often already there, just grown over with regenerating forest species, all removable by hand with a chain saw. Roads and skid trail construction by mechanized operations in Va. are the number one source of “non source point pollution” in the form of sedimentation into the watershed. Roads are also the heavy disturbance that leads alien invasive botanical species into the inner forested conditions. Examples in our region are many, Japanese Ladder Grass, Garlic Mustard, Alanthus, Oriental bittersweet, honey suckle, multi-flora rose, Autumn Olive and on and on. So the point is that light disturbance is the best way to battle disturbance dependent species, now and in the future.

We usually only use machines to create landing areas and culverts to access an improved road. Upon completion of the restorative forestry harvest rotation the landings are seeded to be wildlife clearings. These plantings are with native species that provide seed for native birds and deer.

My point is that if you don’t have to build a road don’t build one, I suspect Carl agrees, but the fact is, that these considerations are always site specific and the best decisions are made by informed land managers. I agree that one of the great challenges is to get the landowner to connect with their resources and this is something HHFF works on by educating landowners about “Special Forest Products”, or the New Age Logger stuff Rick calls mushrooms, botanical products, herbs, roots, etc. The point here is that the better connected to the landscape the landowner is, the more valuable our services will be to them now and in the future.

Using smaller sized equipment often fits with what was done in the past. Most larger jobs (over 50 acres) we work on have haul roads already in place that were used with smaller trucks, 1-2 ton size single axle dual rear wheeled trucks that were loaded in the woods often from a pit dug that would allow the truck to be backed into the pit or against a bank and logs rolled onto the bed for hauling to the improved road or sawmill which was on site. These folks must have worked around weather conditions on what is called a seasonal basis. They only hauled when it was dry or frozen. There is much to be learned by what has been done in the past. Most logging in the Appalachians as late as 30 years ago was all on site processing or a sawmill on site that produced rough lumber to be sold into the furniture industry, usually locally or within 50 miles hauling distance. Those days are gone. We don’t have small furniture industries in every little southern town that will buy your lumber off the truck and write you a check on the spot. We have devolved our forest products systems to a system of brokers that are the proverbial middlemen that take your lumber on consignment and sell it to fabricators or kiln dry operators and then pay the producer at a later time rewarded by a reduced price when paid for in 60-90 days. Meanwhile the producer still has to pay their operating expenses until that lumber is paid for. So this system by it’s nature requires much more operating capital to even participate. It seems to have lead to centralized milling operations that supplies by small producers that haul their logs to them and take what they will give for the raw logs. All of this development in the forest products industry is related to cheap intensive energy (OIL), which ain’t going to ever be as cheap as it has been.

This discussion could lead to the decentralized approach of on site processing or what is called value adding forest products. Maybe that will become a later thread as this group works to help each other make the most money for the best care of the forest. It all must be interdependent, interconnected and profitable for the ground level workers in order to create bottom up change. That is what HHFF has worked toward for over a decade and will contribute to this effort in any way possible.

Thanks for reading all these long post and please let me know what you think.

The DRAFTWOOD community “green” certified forest products approach will surly become a part of this discussion at some point and we look forward to sharing all of what we are doing.

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

Wow, this is another great thread woodsmen.

I will add a few thoughts. The integrated systems (machines and animals) should be used by all of us that are committed to animal powered extraction to increase our production, competitiveness, safety and efficiency at producing the products we can use to generate income to make a living at this work. There are specific applications of integrated systems that are usually defined by the topography, volume of wood, size and weight of wood, available from the sites we are working on.

There is definitely a need to design and manufacture horse drawn forwarders that will handle heavier hardwood species and lengths that allow marketing for maximum value. These machines could be designed to have the hydraulic motors to assist in pulling the load (Simon), as well as all load carrying wheeled braking to hold the loads back on downhill hauling. The flotation tires with grip treads on the drive and carrying wheels would be great. A device of this nature would be heavier and more for the animals to move in any condition, but this additional weight would not be beyond the capacity of most stout logging horses, oxen or mules. If one needed some more power, just add some work stock to the team or simply make smaller loads and more trips. We often have pulled our trucks into the job as the first effort for two teams and once loaded, out of the job as the last effort of the day.

This group could help with the development of such tools for our collective use, but it will not be affordable if we use the normal manufacturers that look for a high profit margin to take on a new line of equipment. We may have to research this among our membership.

Roads

Most of the sites we work in already have clear evidence of roads and trails from previous extraction – for an experienced woodsman to observe. It is often a matter of clearing these old skid tails and opening them up for use in this harvest rotation. So in these case we have no need to build new roads, just use the ones already there. We find that in most cases these roads are designed quite well in relation to the landscape topography, because if they aren’t designed well, what used to be a road or skid trail would now be a gully or highly eroded area. Most of our landscape is mountainous or hilly to say the least and or predecessors were truly doing this for a living and the ability to work consistently meant they would put their roads on the backbone of the ridges so they drained well and water didn’t follow their disturbance down the hill and become so muddy that they couldn’t use them daily. It was just common sense for them because the had to keep working to eat, so they didn’t skid in the confluence or where the water naturally will run off.

The criticism of animal powered harvesting noted by most conventional foresters is often about the limited skid distances that we generally work (500 feet or less). This criticism is hard to reconcile with the reality of the forestland being now owned by more and more people in smaller and smaller tracts. This trend is amazing and will not stop anytime soon. These smaller tracts also have some of the best timber currently available and we are the niche harvesting system that can access it for several reasons.

I have written about this many times and probably somewhere on this site before. Here is a quick run down on the demographics or relationship between people and land ownership conditions.

In 1999 52% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 40 acres or less owned by private individuals.
In 2007 71% of the forestland in Va. was in tracts of 10 acres or less owned by private individuals.

So now – the dominant forested landscape condition is in smaller tracts that are not available to mechanized harvesting for two main reasons. First the landowner won’t allow it to be clear cut or high graded, second the mechanized operations can’t afford to move from site to site without taking all the timber available to pay the expense of moving big equipment around.

It should be noted that the collection of this data was not to support our approach, but to express concern that the sawmills (primary processors) would run out of material to keep the largest industry in the state running – if they didn’t find a way to access this raw material. I was alerted to the study by a rare forester that supports animal powered techniques. We use it often to defend our work to educate and develop more Biological Woodsmen.

Back to roads – roads are expensive to build and require machinery cost also.
On most smaller tracts they are not necessary and as mentioned are often already there, just grown over with regenerating forest species, all removable by hand with a chain saw. Roads and skid trail construction by mechanized operations in Va. are the number one source of “non source point pollution” in the form of sedimentation into the watershed. Roads are also the heavy disturbance that leads alien invasive botanical species into the inner forested conditions. Examples in our region are many, Japanese Ladder Grass, Garlic Mustard, Alanthus, Oriental bittersweet, honey suckle, multi-flora rose, Autumn Olive and on and on. So the point is that light disturbance is the best way to battle disturbance dependent species, now and in the future.

We usually only use machines to create landing areas and culverts to access an improved road. Upon completion of the restorative forestry harvest rotation the landings are seeded to be wildlife clearings. These plantings are with native species that provide seed for native birds and deer.

My point is that if you don’t have to build a road don’t build one, I suspect Carl agrees, but the fact is, that these considerations are always site specific and the best decisions are made by informed land managers. I agree that one of the great challenges is to get the landowner to connect with their resources and this is something HHFF works on by educating landowners about “Special Forest Products”, or the New Age Logger stuff Rick calls mushrooms, botanical products, herbs, roots, etc. The point here is that the better connected to the landscape the landowner is, the more valuable our services will be to them now and in the future.

Using smaller sized equipment often fits with what was done in the past. Most larger jobs (over 50 acres) we work on have haul roads already in place that were used with smaller trucks, 1-2 ton size single axle dual rear wheeled trucks that were loaded in the woods often from a pit dug that would allow the truck to be backed into the pit or against a bank and logs rolled onto the bed for hauling to the improved road or sawmill which was on site. These folks must have worked around weather conditions on what is called a seasonal basis. They only hauled when it was dry or frozen. There is much to be learned by what has been done in the past. Most logging in the Appalachians as late as 30 years ago was all on site processing or a sawmill on site that produced rough lumber to be sold into the furniture industry, usually locally or within 50 miles hauling distance. Those days are gone. We don’t have small furniture industries in every little southern town that will buy your lumber off the truck and write you a check on the spot. We have devolved our forest products systems to a system of brokers that are the proverbial middlemen that take your lumber on consignment and sell it to fabricators or kiln dry operators and then pay the producer at a later time rewarded by a reduced price when paid for in 60-90 days. Meanwhile the producer still has to pay their operating expenses until that lumber is paid for. So this system by it’s nature requires much more operating capital to even participate. It seems to have lead to centralized milling operations that supplies by small producers that haul their logs to them and take what they will give for the raw logs. All of this development in the forest products industry is related to cheap intensive energy (OIL), which ain’t going to ever be as cheap as it has been.

This discussion could lead to the decentralized approach of on site processing or what is called value adding forest products. Maybe that will become a later thread as this group works to help each other make the most money for the best care of the forest. It all must be interdependent, interconnected and profitable for the ground level workers in order to create bottom up change. That is what HHFF has worked toward for over a decade and will contribute to this effort in any way possible.

Thanks for reading all these long post and please let me know what you think.

The DRAFTWOOD community “green” certified forest products approach will surly become a part of this discussion at some point and we look forward to sharing all of what we are doing.

Sincerely,

[Gabe Ayers]

I think White Horse makes several models of chisel plows and subsoilers. They have the hydraulic reset feature. They put three on a single point usually.

It has been a long time since we subsoiled with the horses. We had an older model of a three point hitch cart that raised with a bottle jack and lowered by gravity only. It was made by a retired professor in Kentucky named Elmo Reed. His rig was the forerunner to the teamster 2000 that was the first ground drive PTO cart I remember. It was the first cat. one three point hitch cart made for animal power. He eventually made a model that had a ground drive pto like I and J and a hydraulic accumlator from the other tire. It was a tricycle arrangement and would turn over real easy when it was loaded heavy. We thought at the time we got it that we could use it in the woods too and take advantage of the jack to provide lift on the logs. The thing was way to cumbersome and the little third wheel up front would jar you pretty good and seemed to find every stump/rock/hole in the center of the skid trail. It was way hard to turn around or back up in the woods. It is still sitting in the briar patch up on the hill in case someone wants it…cheap….

Back on the sub-soiling. We started trying to use one shank of a chisel plow that we took off our tractor plow and made a three point hitch carrier for it.
We couldn’t get the angle right or enough down pressure to get it to stay in the ground. So we went with the simple sub-soiler three point hitch model and it would go into the ground about 12/14 inches deep. We were working some stout horses trying to get them ready for some pulling contest so instead of lugging them around a field on a sled we used the sub-soiler. It has no breakaway feature so every time we hit a tight rock they would shear the bolt and I would have to stop, dig up the tip and put it back together. It really worked a pair of horses hard. That was the point at the time, but if one was looking to really get more work done a three abreast would walk along with it much easier.

We are actually rethinking the farming or grow food for sale in our operations.
It may be appropriate to diversify our production to be about more than wood. The shut down in the spring inspired us that way. Now the challenge is to find a crop we can grow without the dam deer from eating it… In the early spring they will actually dig up potatoes and eat the sprouts that are green about ground too. We have traditionally grown great cabbage at the high altitude, but we are afraid the deer with wipe us out there too. Our current successful gardens are usually somewhere between the barn and house and my fat old dog barks enough to keep away, plus the web of electric fences is a sure deterrent.

Since we always have some old sod that could be replanted into better forage, but when we turn it we would like to put a year of row crops in to make something out of the tillage work and get a years cash crop off it before going back to small grains and a new crop of grasses and legumes.
We are fortunate to have very fertile soil that will grow just about anything we can get by the deer….

You may call and get a catalog from White Horse at: 717-768-8313.

You may visit I & J at: http://www.farmingwithhorses.com

[Gabe Ayers]

I think that KV pulled easier in the demo’s at SDAD. There is definitely a difference in the power required to pull plows through certain soil types. The KV really turned under some tall grass sod and that is what a moldboard plow is best for, tearing up sod and being the first step to putting it in open tillage or replanting to better sod in the front end of a rotation. There were White Horse plows there with both bottoms. We have a pioneer here with the 12 inch Oliver/JD type plow and it is exactly the same as the tractor types or they are the tractor types.

I started with an old JD 2 way plow as the first sulky I every used. We picked it off the top of a scrap heap at an old farm about to be auctioned. Bought it for scrap value, $15.00. It had Syracuse bottoms and was pretty smooth once adjusted properly and very light weight. The biggest benefit is that you can turn all the land up hill and slow the drifting downhill a bit. It avoids having a dead furrow or headland to turn it all one way. One doesn’t have to hit to many tight rocks before the concerns Plowboy Dennis mentions. The issue is getting around those adjustment handles when exiting the seat rapidly as the plow comes out of the ground suddenly. I haven’t seen any sulkies that won’t launch a fellow up beside the team real quick if they hang a tight rock, especially when the team wants to pull harder when the load gets heavier. The best thing about all the modern one is that they have steel components that can be repaired or replaced unlike the old cast iron pieces that are getting harder to find anywhere.

I do think there is something to the concept of the “Plowmans Folley” book that suggest inversion of the land is not the best way to till the soil. It creates what is called moldboard shear where if you drive a soil probe straight into the soil there will be several inches of loose soil then a couple of inches for very compacted soil and some more loose below the shear line. So that is why we limit the use of the mold board plow to breaking sod, especially tight tough sod like the bane of the Southeast – FESCUE…
The alternative is a chisel type plow type, some call it a Vibra-Shank which the Amish manufacturer’s also make. It is closer to the plow bivol keeps posting in it’s method of breaking up the soil. It is called an ecological tillage tool, but it takes a lot more passes to break up old sod that with a moldboard plow.

So we just use the moldboard on sod and a disc and spring tooth on stubble ground and then a sub-soiler once before going back into sod as a part of a seven year crop rotation approach that is just good old sound farming practices. There are lots of other benefits to crop rotation, when using animal powered tillage, but one, is not turning the land over every year.
My point is that the soil can be prepared to a seed bed without turning when worked with animals versus running over and over it with tractor tires. It simply stays less compacted when using animal powered tillage in our experience.

I guess a fellow could set up some strip contours and plow all winter if the ground wasn’t frozen hard. The old timers seemed to always have some ground in tillage all year around. Being diversified is harder…then again, one will always have a place to work those young horses that need some sweat and time on a steady moderately heavy load.

Does anyone on the board have a horse drawn sub soiler?

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