[bivol]

good points!

in communication with my friends i have a rule “in dubio pro reo”.

it’s a guideline from our legal system, meaning if court suspects some of the judged person’s behaviour, but doesn’t have clear information about it, it views the information in the way that is in the best interest of the person who is judged.

something like abolition of process due to lack of evidence, as opposed to keeping the process going and pressing the suspect until something comes up.

so when there is some disagreement with my friends, and i feel hurt, but i don’t know if they did it on purpose, i view it as if they didn’t mean it.

[bivol]

Thanks!

i’ve seen these pages some half a year ago, but didn’t take much notice because i didn’t seriously consider going back then. after seeing the photos Elke posted, then i decided i’d like to go!
i’ll keep my eye on the calendar on these pages, although the notice on the forum wouldn’t hurt!;)

[bivol]

yep!:D

the advantage would be that you don’t have to take time to pre-heat the water, and it also takes away the unwieldiness and dangers of working with lots of hot water.

just an idea, i’d like to know what you think: after you shoot the pig, it falls down and when the nervous reaction takes place, wouldn’t it be practical to press (a person leaning on) the pig’s front end, from the middle of the belly to the neck, covering front feet, with a piece of light wood or plywood, say 100X120 cm, so it can’t kick the person cutting the vein and collecting the blood.

[bivol]

@fabian 10086 wrote:

take a plane to Luxembourg. than go to Trier with a train, than with the train to Wittlich. there I will pick you up as our guest for 3 days (as I did with Charly Bonifaz), we will hitch my team, we will make a barbeque and on Saturday or Sunday (prefer Saturday) we drive to Kommern (distance from my home about 90 km)

WOW, Thanks a lot, Wolfgang!

Than I accept the offer for the next year!:)

I’m really glad I’ll have someone to guide me while in Germany, I speak German, but still, it’s a long way from home!

And not only that, to be able to stay at your place! I knew you’re good people, but i honestly didn’t expect this!
Thanks loads, Wolfgang!

so, for the next year, i’d need to know the exact date of the the gathering for the next year, at least some weeks prior, to be able to buy a low-cost ticket!

needless to say, if you come to Croatia (or have some of your friends or relatives do), just tell me, I’ll do whatever i can! Elke, it goes for you too!

:Dyep, OldKat, it’s sure is a great forum! because of its people for bigger part!

[bivol]

Thanks, Elke!

i’d love to come and see the meeting…. only, it’s too expensive for me in the moment to buy a regular plane ticket.

so i thought of taking one of these early-buy-ticket cheap flights, for next year, but id have to know exactly when the meeting takes place…

i’ve looked up the activities calendar, but so far i’ve failed to find the date of the meeting in the activities calendar for this year.

does this mean these yearly meetings of draft cattle enthusiasts aren’t the part of the official event program? :confused:

i thought taking a plane either to Bonn, or Luxembourg flughaffen, and from then, guess taking a bus to Kommern?…
but no matter, i have a year to prepare!:D

cuz i’d really want to go next year…

[bivol]

i know, no prob:D

i don’t know who said it, maybe Dalai-lama, but don’t know for sure: “if you worry about something you can change, you’re worrying for nothing, because you can change it. if you worry about something you can’t change, you’re worrying for nothing as you can’t change it whatever you do. either way, there’s no use in worrying”

but he never told to ignore. so, i’ll drop my ear from time to time, just to be on the safe side here…

…and i will, thank you;)

[bivol]

well, they (scientists) said fall 2012. why not sooner? i think it has to do with natural cycles of solar activity, in 11 year intervals. i don’t know much about it, but they know that the Sun has its plasma currents, like the ocean currents on our planet, and by calculating where these may erupt, they said the year…
…. and, the solar wind harms no living creature, i think it doesn’t cause (big?) burns, being heated particles, but harms electrical devices by overloading them….

hm, now that i think, they mentioned power plugs and power transformers because they are always on…. wonder if it harms turned off cables and such:confused:
also, i don’t think it could cause damage to an engine or cable a few feet under the surface.
and about all these theories about the end of world and such, i’ve never payed much attention to them, they even annoyed me, but if it comes from a science magazine, and is written cautiously, i think it’s worth paying a little attention. not panic, but maintaining a healthy caution. anyway, today it’s still to early to see how the governments will react, but i’d keep my eye on the events just in case…

but hey, it doesn’t overload oxen and horses, this is probably the forum with people who will, even in the worst scenario, fare the best, in the situation:D

[bivol]

interesting post!

always looking for advice for the fine day when i’ll turn a hog to meat!

anyway, the pig’s bacon, but for next time, an alternative to boiling water is to use a flame torch, they use it extensively in the balkans and eastern europe. after scorching the entire carcass more-less black, just scrape everything, hairs and upper skin with a scraper.

[bivol]

Welcome!:)

always good to have people with experiences from different parts of the world concerning working animals! please do describe what and how local people work their animals.
and especially concerning the nose-rope system of control of oxen, i want to learn about it.

ironically, the peak oil should not happen because of shortage of oil, but because of the solar wind. no hear-say, New Scientist wrote about it. in short, every electrical device burns out. electric pumps pumping the oil too. internal-combustion engines too. it’s supposed to happen in 2012.

anyway, glad to have you!!! X)

[bivol]

well, when i said they can’t economically compete, i meant as using oxen for profit in a logging company. they couldn’t compete in results (amount of timber in a given time) with horses and mules, red in oxen; a teamster’s guide a few people tried and no one did it for too long. ofcourse, no draft animal can compete with machinery in efficiency, but as you said, if other factors are taken in account, the animals can be a real competition.

now, i don’t know how the guys above did their work, or with how many oxen, but the main reason equines seem dominant in the animal logging bussiness is actually the nature of work. they are either used to log in enviremently sensitive areas, or work side-by-side with machinery. in both cases, especially in latter, i think they don’t get to haul out enormous tree trunks. so, the speed becomes more of an issue. and equines beat oxen in that regard.

another thing also reminds me: there’s a mountainous region in my country, where the population traditionally logged with draft animals in the past. the oxen were employed to drag the tree trunks out of woods, and horses to drag and pack wood too. the poorer people used oxen, and the better-off horses.
the advantages of oxen were: they were cheaper, could work without grain, but they had to have a day off after each working day, to rest. and they were slower.
the horses required grain, which had to be imported, but could work faster.

although, in really steep and hard terrain it is said only oxen could pull out large logs.
horses were also used to pack the wood out of forest.

the point is, that region was relatively poor, despite the large pine woods, and most of those who used horses made enough money and moved away in the lowlands. so i guess that also proves that horses, although more expensive, earn more, too.

true, Matt, the preferance to animals plays a great issue when thinking about labour needing to be done. i’d prefer oxen always.

[bivol]

it’s ok! i’m glad that it wasn’t anything worse:D

[bivol]

no problem! i’m learning a lot too on this forum, too!
this is what forums are, i think, supposed to be all about, sharing knowledge about common interests.

one thing that experienced muleskinners may know, but it was sure new to me, was the concept that mules don’t kick out of revenge. (that’s a relief!:))

mules are supposedly notorious for their long memory, and that they’ll get back to you after a long time. found the text on a mule trainer’s website, i think it was mr. Cameron’s. anyway, the idea that surprised me was that a mule doesn’t know the concept of revenge. it simply feels threatened by you, or any other human, if it experienced abuse before, and it’s as a consequence, distrusts humans. so, sooner or later a teamster is going to be in a situation when the mule feels threatened, and can defend itselt. it will then kick.
the idea is, that while it may look as an act of planned retaliation , it is simply a defense mechanism on the behalf of a really sensitive and smart animal who has, yes, a long memory for both pleasant and unpleasant experiences, and acts towards them.

[bivol]

OK!

there were been tries to harness oxen with collars. so far i know of two successful attempts. one is the american ox harness, and the other the german 3-pad harness.

http://www.prairieoxdrovers.com/collars.html

the german harness is supposed to be the most efficient system of harnessing bovine power known to man, although for some purposes nothing beats a yoke.
the point with bovine harnessing is that they have movable shoulders, and so the harness can’t be rigid, as with the horse.

some links on german collar

http://www.fao.org/docrep/V0600T/v0600T0j.htm

and a previous post from this forum:
http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?p=292

hope i could help!

oh, one thing; the german harness needs traces leading under the animal’s tail, so the harness doesn’t slip forward.

[bivol]

Hi!

have you tried to read some books on mules?
for example Harvey Riley’s “mule”, from 19th century? it deals mostly with contemporary issues, but you can learn some things too.
for mules, IMO you should start with a team that’s older than 10 years and broke. that’s because mules settle after 10 years, they mature mentally. i’ve seen broke pairs of mules of that age for round 3000 dollars on net, mule ranch, i think Missouri.
think they are your best gamble. you need to learn how mules think, interact with them, get to know them. humans learn a great deal when just being around animals, without even noticing it. maybe you should spend some time around mules before buying your first.

and, treat your mules like you’d treat a dog more than you’d treat a horse. means more close and personal, give an occasional treat, but stay firm!

oh, and DON’T loose you head! if you’re prone to anger quick, avoid mules. better safe than sorry!;)

if you want to get a young mule and start training it, you should do it under supervision of someone experienced. books can learn you a great deal, but only live experience can show you how to avoid mistakes.

advice: AVOID pet mules! they usually don’t fear humans, and therefore don’t respect them. they are harder to brake than wild mules!

[bivol]

hi!

to put it short, oxen can do the most horses can except dressage.

pulling- oxen signature work. that may include all kinds of implements, be it for farming, logging, or transportation.
they are generally calmer than horses, and although some will say slower, i read some articles suggesting that they can be trained to walk at the same speed as horses.
on muddy roads oxen have better traction.

riding-they can be ridden, and are, concerning the reliability and some other character traits, superior to the horse. that means they are sturdy enough to suffer much less from feet problems, than horses. they are as (un)shurefooted as horses, but are less prone to bolting and running away, a very appreciable trait when riding on mountain trails.

packing- oxen can be used for packing, and are known to carry loads heavier than horses carry, and derive energy exclusively off of grazing on the route.

powering farm implements- oxen can be used to power a variety of stationary machines which can, depending on their construction, tresh wheat, pump water, irrigate land, lift hay up to the barn, produce electricity,…

logging-oxen can be used to pull out logs. they can’t economically compete for the volume of pulled wood with mules and horses, but can be useful to have near for private woodlot management.

other important traits-

cattle are less flighty and prone to running away, they rather hold their ground when something unexpectantly appears, and with their size they are well able to stand up to a bear or a cougar, if need be. therefore they are a lot calmer than equines.

cattle can eat what horses won’t. cattle can survive, though not work much, on straw and cornstalks. hay quality and mould are no issue, as with horses. cattle can drink dirty water, horses won’t.

sturdiness- cattle are less prone to various conditions than horses. this increases their reliability.

they can be eaten- ok, a horse can technically also be, but i think most will prefer eating an ox.

hope i could help!;)

[Author]

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