[Carl Russell]

I agree Nick, you are the third person to recently ask about this film. I know someone who knows the cinematographer. I will try to look into this.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Another thing to think about standing is that whoa only has one meaning…. stand. That means when you use the word then you actually give them the chance to stand, even for just a second or two. Be clear that whoa is not just a transition term, but it actually has a clear meaning…. stop moving your feet, and stand. It is your choice whether it is to stand for a few seconds, a few minutes, or longer, but the meaning is the same…. stand. It may seem like semantics to humans, but if you think of the word to have two meanings, as if stop is not the same as stand, and you use it that way, then it will remain unclear to the horse, and they will not stand well.

Also, always stop the horse before they want to stop on their own. It may seem counter-intuitive to stop an animal in the midst of exertion, and many of us will continue to encourage a horse forward, as a correction for trying to stop too early. In an attempt to train a horse to have a forward attitude, we may actually be working against our own interests. Like George suggests, stopping horses frequently not only gives them a chance to practice standing, but it reinforces for them that you use that whoa command to their benefit. When they trust that you will stop them before they want/need to, then they will try harder, and they will also accept the command to stand with enthusiasm.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Yes, HHFF uses peer and community review, BHL uses peer review, as opposed to 3rd party review, such as Society of American Foresters provides for professional foresters.

I hold little or no value in the concept of certification either, but there is no doubt that some standards operating procedures or philosophy can build unanimity across a field of practice that allows the group/association/guild to validate the professionalism and delivery of services of the individual members.

One of the biggest challenges that I see, is that the effort and results are bigger than each of us individually. We all are full to the brim with the work of making our own operations successful, and finding the catalyst that pulls us together with funding to push on at this level is sometimes bewildering……

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Jared, Just to be clear, this is not necessarily a request for DAPNet to play any role in finding or delivering the solution for a DAP-loggers directory, or association. If that turns out to be part of the solution, great, but in the long-run this distinct group, could, and perhaps should, find its own format… I think everything should be on the table, and nothing should hinder forward motion.

I should have clarified when I spoke at DAPFD that the present I saw around me was a beaming success in my eyes. It was not the present that I started from 30 years ago, and in many ways it is the future that I have been working toward (more to go for sure). What little I had to do with our present community was because when I had opportunities to give time and resources, to promote others, and to try to break down barriers to access, I did. I believe that only when I am present, not distracted with how things could be different(better), am I prepared to take advantage of opportunities that present themselves. Having an eye toward how our efforts effect/benefit others is also a big part of being in a community.

Thanks for your energy and commitment, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Great Brad, good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Oh, I also meant to say that I almost didn’t read this thread, because the first time I saw the title I thought it said “Dancing, Prancing, and General “Equitation””… I thought is was about show horses….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I agree with all of the above.

I usually try to spend less time trying to figure out why, and just concentrate on what I want to see. I think it is a very slow lesson to learn, that just because we have limited time, and specific tasks, that the horse may need more foundational attention.

I don’t mean that she is lacking foundation, just that I don’t want the prancing and dancing, and when it arises, I need to work on ways to alleviate it. And by this I do not mean that I will work on it now to solve it for all time, but I think Jared’s point about finding really acute ways to demonstrate release throughout the day is key.

I have found that even after heavy work, my horses often will demonstrate even more energy headed home…. well, I have been working hard. Presumably I’m done with the task, and ready to move to something else…. am I going to have time to correct this behavior? No.

It can be frustrating, but calm consistent reassurance of the appropriate pace is really the best approach that I have found. Then over time with regular work, and not giving in to the distraction, the behavior can be adjusted.

I have found benefit from having my horses comfortable with the day-end routine at the barn, so I am not interested in interfering with that. The main thing is that during work there are enough opportunities for them to find comfort that they do not find the barn, or being out of harness, or not working, to be the only place for comfort.

This is where I also try to change my pressure of initiative. Rather than pushing horses through tasks by command, I try to be an active partner….. like leading in a dance, not because someone has an idea and is compelling the other to comply, but because with one leading, and one following, the two can move as one.

I have found that it is not an easy balance. When I have limited time, and the horses are my power unit to get the work done, it is easy to fall into the rut of :”go there, go here, stop, do that”, not unlike driving a tractor. And then there is the need to be efficient, and any distracting energy from the horse is unhelpful, which can lead to the need to correct and reinforce their responsibility to respond appropriately.

I have found however, when I resist the need to have them respond as I expect, and instead be mindfully present, to move with them based on how they are actually responding, then they become more comfortable just because my communication has improved immensely, and they are more interested in cooperating with me precisely because I have shown them I am interested in communicating with them.

So this is a long way of saying that in the moment this can seem distracting, and perhaps even chronic, but just keep working with her to show her that you are there, and that she can count on you, and you will find the results you seek….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

30-40 hp is good enough, but the bottom line as far as I am concerned is purchase and maintenance cost. Production is low, and cash-flow is slow with horses, but percent profitability is high. Once we invest capital into technology, we change the cost structure. When a piece of complementary equipment rises above the cost of the horse-based operation, it begins to change the profitability demands.

In my experience, it is very difficult to make horses pay for equipment that adds cost. There are certain tasks such as building trails, or stacking logs, or perhaps even forwarding logs that can alleviate time-related production restrictions on horses. The challenge is to find the piece of equipment that is capable of doing those for a price that is equitable to the cost of those activities.

When a piece costs more, it needs to be used more, especially if the extra cost provides capabilities that surpass the horses. I finally bought a $3000 JD1010 bulldozer about 5 years ago for stacking logs and improving trails. I have skidded three hitches with it during that time, firstly because it is just not in good enough shape to handle that much travel without putting another $3000 into undercarriage, but more importantly because I want to work horses, not machines.

However, in fifteen minutes I can push up a day’s production that could take me 2 hours to do by hand. I found that it allowed me to increase production with the horses by as much as 50%, which has been a huge value. Especially in comparison to the cost….

A two-wheel drive tractor with forks is less sexy, but probably costs much less than the little 4×4’s, and could be a great landing rig. It can also be a great affordable addition to the small farm, for hauling, brush-hogging, haying, and handling compost, etc.

Anyway, if you want to keep using horses, just make sure that you don’t make investments that change the economics so that you can’t afford to use them anymore.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Our good friend Tom Meurling, Hemfridsvägen 3, 192 67 Sollentuna (just outside Stockholm) (011 46 073-915 23 67 international tele #) is the president.

He speaks excellent English, and is a very generous and open man. He will certainly be able to give you more contacts for other organizations. I’m sure that he would respond to an email. This is the one listed on the site… ordforande@hastkorare.se

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[Carl Russell]

?

[Carl Russell]

I don’t see too many compromises to working horses in the woods year-round. At different times in my career I have harvested timber around the calendar. Nesting birds, erosion, soft bark all can be significant impacts, but in general the cumulative effect of a horse operation during one summer is minimal. I have redirected skid trails to avoid Ovenbird, hummingbird, and woodcock nests… At least we can see them before we destroy them.

Logs drag harder on dirt, horses sweat more, and flies suck…. but the days are longer and there is no snow to plow, or ice to slip on.

The most perishable product is white pine sawlogs. You need to be able to get them to market within a week of cutting in the depth of summer, or they will stain, and be worth very little. Spruce is not as bad, and hardwoods are less, but all trees with sap flowing in them can spoil due to stain. It works best if you stick to one market at a time, so that you can get loads on the road as timely as possible.

Planning harvest areas ahead of time is worthwhile, so that you don’t stick yourself with scattered timber on a long skid in the hottest weather. Cut a few short skids in the morning to warm up, move farther back for midday, then back to a few short hitches at the end. That way you can make every day an average day.

Your forwarder wagon will be a big energy saver, as will other devices like a scoot. Basically figuring out which devices will give best advantage in which areas, rather than trying to use the arch for everything will go a long way to conserving energy and improving efficiency.

I tend to shoe with pulling shoes, which are particularly helpful on dirt. I cut the caulks down to 3/4″, but they still have great traction. When trails get slippery from rain, this traction will be very helpful for the horses, but in general horses that pull heavy loads on dirt will learn that they have solid footing, and their effort will surpass anything they would have put forth when barefoot.

I suppose there are as many solutions as there are operators.

Have fun, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Floby Överskottslager AB
West Torp Bishop’s Garden 5
521 53 Floby
Telephone: 0515 40340/070 3405289
Org.nr: 5560574716
Web: http://www.flobyoverskottslager.se

Contact: info@flobyoverskottslager.se

Domänsax
Swedish-made original domänsax (släpsax).
Max grip width about 65cm.
For hours drag by horse, ATV or wire etc.
Unused.
Greyish blue.
Weight about 12kg.

http://store.flobyoverskottslager.se/product/domansax

• This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by Carl Russell.

[Carl Russell]

It is weird being away from a computer for a week. I would have said everything above. Good answers pro and con. One thing that affords you, which all farmers often miss, is the luxury of starting to look for something you will need at some point in the future, but the demand isn’t urgent right now.

This can really make a difference in what you get and what you pay. Take you time, let a great horse come to you, but let folks know you are looking. Go visit something that sounds good, but don’t buy it unless it is what you want. Sounds like fun to me.

Donn Hewes from Bethel, VT.

[Carl Russell]

I guess the point is Joel, that other than as a ledger plate for rolling logs on, the logs should replace the need for those oak rails. On some sleds the reach from the rear sleds tenons into the swing-bunk anyway.

That being said though, if the swing bunk and rear bunk are not attache they can move independently of each other which can cause problems for load security.

It looks like a well-used piece on your farm. My hills are too steep, up and down, for a double bunk sled, but I have always coveted using one.

Good job, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Looking good Joel… great job, Carl

[Author]

Posts