[Carl Russell]

We are off grid at our home, using a small solar bank (350 watts), and a 1000 watt wind turbine. Most of our power comes from wind and sun, but we do have to top off the batteries with a gas generator. I wouldn’t call it babysitting really, but I do pay attention to the amp meter. To me it is like harvesting electricity from the sky. However, we have gravity feed water, compact flourescent light bulbs, no energy suckers like coffee makers, and wall switches for all our phantom loads (computers, TV, radio) We also have a Sun Frost insulated 24VDC refrigerator.

My theory has not been to make a huge non-cost-effective investment, but to conserve, and build into a system that can meet our needs. Most systems out there are over-engineered, so that when you want to run the vacuum, you don’t have to check the battery level. The problem with that is, the system is topped off most of the time, so your spilling power, and wasting the cost of investment. The other huge part (nearly 1/2) of the cost is installation. I installed everything, including the tower, and all the electrical requirements. Our cost was half what was quoted to us.

The grid-tied solar and wind systems are really what the engineers love, because conservation doesn’t have to be part of the discussion. The owners always have enough power, unless the power goes out (amazingly many grid-ties are not installed with home power systems), so they never consider cutting corners. But they look GREEN.

Conservation is where it’s at though. I don’t think it matters what your talking about, electricity or fuel, we can do so much with so much less with just a little planning and commitment. I read that a microwave oven (we don’t have one!)is so efficient that it takes less electricity to cook a meal with it, than it takes to have it plugged in all day long. But who wants to shut off the power to the microwave? Then the digital clock will be all messed up! This is a good example of phantom load. People are just so used to using electricity that they don’t realize how much they use to do nothing. Even conventional electric homes could significantly reduce their power consumption if they just did it. Obviously, we have more motivation as our power is finite.

Anyway, my mother’s house is on this property, and we have a couple of freezers there, and the shop and the barn are also grid tied. Like I said building into it.

Fuel for the truck is tough though. Just plowing this winter has been a ridiculous expense. I am going to be spending the better part of the next couple of years doing all of my logging on our property, or within walking distance, for a couple of reasons, but fuel will be a big savings. I also bought a beater Subaru to fix up (Time?) to run errands in etc.

Spending energy right now, man, Gotta Go. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Michael, Thank you for sharing the expression of your loss with us. I was moved by your story of the wonder and euphoria of driving horses through fresh fallen snow, and the emptying feeling of the death of your beloved workmate. The opportunity for those raw experiences of life that we expose ourselves to, through our work with animals and natural cycles, is as agonizingly painful as it is exhilaratingly healing.

I too buried a fine horse in midwinter. I would like to share the poem I wrote to work through grief, as homage to Big John.

Rob the Wonder Horse

Now go ahead, be on your way,
I’ll think about you every day.
Your eyes so bright, your ears so keen,
go find that field so lush and green,
and romp and roll, and buck and run,
have yourself a lot of fun.
I hope sometime to pass that way,
and crest that hill to watch you play.

So many paths you helped me find,
both in the woods and in my mind.
We turned the soil, and I learned to grow,
and bring to life the things I’ld sow,
the best of which it really seems,
were hidden deep within my dreams.
My time with you I’ll never trade,
you made a mark that will not fade.

No go ahead, get on your way,
you will be with me everyday.
From ridge to ridge along the brook,
I see you everywhere I look.
Like scratches on a cavern wall,
our secrets hidden in the scrawl,
of skid trails, furrows, and manure,
the tests of time they will endure.

Whatever the job, you had your pace,
and I learned that this was not a race,
but when I asked, you did your best,
you’re done with work, now take a rest.

It’s hard for me, I feel so strong,
the need to bring you on along,
to see things through to the end,
you truly were my greatest friend.

Go on now Robbie, get on your way,
I’ll meet up with you again someday. C.B.R. 2/94

To you Michael, and Chad, and Jason, and all. Carl

[Carl Russell]

It has been said, and I agree, being there makes all the difference. Although you are novices, and you acknowledge your lack of experience, make sure you maintain ownership of the process. It is my firm belief that we gain nothing by letting others drive and handle our horses. Even if you may think that it will give them a better idea of how your horses are acting, it will do nothing for advancing your understanding.

One of my most important mentors ALWAYS says, “I’m not going to hold your hand!”. Have your mentors watch you, and try to educate you to try the solutions they come up with.

Through it all, protect your animals, and your relationship with them, and be brave enough to process the new perspectives before you put anything new into action. This is a big part of the being in control energy that you need to show to your animals. It’s all the time. Just the way I see it. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Milking again, I got to thinking.

Even though this doesn’t follow exactly the title of the thread, these are thoughts I think apply to discussion above.

Please excuse any incorrect assumptions, I’m just throwing out some thoughts.

Sometimes I have found that the excited behavior of one horse may have to do with the dynamics between the horses. Ie. one horse lunges, or pushes hard because the other is slacking, or perhaps is expressing discomfort with the working situation. You may have an ambitious horse who wants to please you, but he is un-nerved by the disrespect expressed by the slacker. The rambunctious actions of the pusher might be attracting your attention away from the misbehavior of the other. You might find working them individually will help improve working understanding with all of you. You may get a positive response from both horses if you pay equal attention to each.

Another thing to consider, is a common topic of conversation that I have had in response to similar questions from novices. Focusing on the bit, or snow-balls in the shoes, or flies, or the fit of the harness (for examples), are all important issues, but they can also become minutia that minimize the focus of the teamster.

As everyone knows, horses are prey animals, which most of the time brings up discussion of fear response. It also means that as prey they are big picture thinkers. They are wide view seers, hearing and sent are working constantly. They are so sensitive to their surroundings in all directions. They can even feel a fly land on the long hairs of the fetlock.

For what ever reason, whether we are predators or not, we have incredible ability to focus on particulars. However this is not a behavior that the horse will relate to positively. To be an effective leader of horses the teamster will benefit from practicing the large view. Focusing on minutia breaks down the big view. Worrying about one horse reaction to the bit, will distract the teamster from the initiative of the working situation. I have found that when I remain aware of the big picture, focusing on many aspects of the enterprise, and just let the distracting horse stew in their juice, they soon realize that I am aware of more than they are, and begin to pay attention to me.

This may be why the horse tends to act up on the way to the barn, because you have nothing to keep your attention other than the behavior of your horse.

Another aspect of the horses nature is their demonstrative ability. Go into a pasture when they are feeling good, and you may find at least one will charge around, and demonstrate their POWER. This is the behavior that gains them the attention of their herd mates. If you focus on that behavior, whether in the field, or in the harness, you are validating that expression for that animal. If this behavior does not impress you, and you let your lack of interest be known, the animal will realize their failure to over-power you.

Whew. Sorry about that. This is only to illustrate that there is always more to the picture than what meets the eye. Carl

[Carl Russell]

George, my drop straps are about 6-8″ long. I don’t use britchen drops. I think they have more to do with keeping the reins than with bit action.

I don’t want to be misunderstood. you have to provide significant pressure to assert the appropriate reaction from the horse. Sometimes that may seem like your arms can’t live up to it, on certain horses.

As many others have said, there are bits that will assist you by adding pressure, or by additional pain. The horse will take only what they are willing to, THEN when they give to the appropriate pressure, you have show that you are as soft handed as they could ever expect. This is where you have to work with subtlety to establish the appropriate pressure relationship with the horse. You don’t give in, but when they do, you have to be ready to show your softness. The advantage of bits like wire snaffles is that you may not have to work so hard, the disadvantage is the pain. Either way don’t turn it into a fight for control because that is the mental energy that will not prepare you for the reward you must be ready to provide. I have found that the straight bit is my preference, because I think that I can feel that subtlety better. I have also found that as I said, pain can deaden their ability to feel the subtle release/reward.

As plowboy says, the horse may be taking every advantage of your uncertainty, and the twisted wire bit may be your best bet. My comments were only meant to encourage you to think beyond the bit as well. Carl

[Carl Russell]

George, I have found that jointed bits, and twisted wire jointed bits especially, cause pain as well as pressure. The pain can be a good attention-getter IF you are subtle and quick enough to give an appropriate release/reward. The problem I found was that the pain will begin to numb the horse’s mouth so that they eventually can’t feel the release, and therefore never feel the reward for giving into the pressure, therefore never believing that they can trust your attempts to rein them in.

Whatever bit I use, I remove the reins from the rings up high on the hames, and run them through rings on drop straps so that the rein pressure comes in lower, pulling straight back against the lower jaw and not up into the corners of the mouth. This reduces pinching pain at the corners, and holds the head in, reducing the ability to lunge. I however prefer a straight bit, no pinching. On a really pushy horse I have used a rubber bit to great results.

No matter what course you take, you will get more mileage out of your hands then you will get out of any particular bit. Think backwards. The best way to hold back a hard pulling horse is with a light touch. It takes a lot of practice, but it will come.

At least that’s the way I see it. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Man, did anybody get snow? I plowed all day. I’m going to have to break all my trails all over again!!!! Carl

[Carl Russell]

My thoughts exactly. If you will be on such a list, I will do some foot work to get you all together, and see where it goes from there. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Donn, I like the equipment idea, if it is feasible with your commute. We are working on having Friday be a day of working demonstrations on a nearby farm, plowing, haying, etc.?,.

One of the most common feed-back from 2007 was wanting more demonstrations of training. An idea left on the table last year was one from Beckah Murchison from Fairwinds Farm, Brattleboro, VT., to have several accomplished trainer/starter teamsters get together, maybe in a round pen, maybe with a green horse, maybe as a panel, to apply or talk about, and compare tools and techniques.

Even though we did get interest in more hands-on exposure at NEAPFD, I want to see that going on in small secure settings of individual operations. I want you and others to consider how you can use the field days to promote those intensive opportunities that you offer at home.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome Val, we are so pleased to have you in our midst. This forum really shows how large and widespread our community is. “They” call us “fringe”, but the fringe surrounds them. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Plowboy, They’re called renegades around here.

You make me think of another good thread, about “Old Timers”, or mentors. How have people found mentors? What about “new school” vs. “old school”?
When I don’t have to plow any more snow I’ll start that one, or anyone else can feel free. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Donn, any chance you could use 2008 NEAPFD as a pre-workshop? Or do people think that we could dedicate a portion of that event to workshops such as this, perhaps with multiple practitioners like Donn and others comparing tools and approaches?

We would love for NEAPFD to be a way for farms offering workshops and other opportunities to show case them, thereby attracting folks to the farm for more intensive experiences. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Rod, I realize that. It just got me thinking, and I have a bunch of extra energy due to waiting for the weather to change, and it’s an important topic, so I spewed. Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Rod 735 wrote:

…. the human part of the equation remains healthy and able to work.
Amen to that!

Ultimately we have a very thin veil of security no matter what we do, or how hard we prepare….. I also embrace and hope in self sufficency but see community as an essential background to making it a little more resilient and able to withstand those unplanned for curves in the road.

Some times communities are only as big as a single household. We have a lot of work to do to turn these communities into supportive backgrounds. Most of what we write about here are ideas that make sense to us, but are for the most part way outside the paradigm that controls the modern community.

My hope is, and there have been responses that are encouraging, that our ability to put into practice our philosophy of sustainability will be a strong enough that others will be motivated to try out their own. We also don’t try to live on an island, and find things in common with as many of our neighbors as we can.

Realism is a good thing, but one person’s realism is another person’s idealism, or even defeatism. What we each have is perspective, inspiration, and opportunity.

The reality that I see is that no matter how many artificial institutions we put into place in our modern attempt at culture, there are still significant limitations associated with natural parameters.

Realistically, there won’t be sufficient change within our lifetimes to validate lifestyles that are completely in sync with natural parameters, but in my mind that doesn’t diminish the truth.

Realistically, we are only naked apes floating on a rock through space, and as such we are extremely vulnerable.

Realistically, one person, or one family farm will not affect very much change.

Realistically, I need a reason to get up every day, something to work for, something to provide for my family, something to leave behind.

Realistically, we are victims of space and time, and only have the present in which to operate.

There is a difference between perceived reality and true reality, and our modern culture is entrenched in a perception that we can live insulated from the realities of the Earth. Does that mean that people who don’t buy into it are misguided.

The reality is, that the US dollar is devalued. Our country is carrying a huge debt, $9 trillion. I have no way to even begin to understand that number. Our government is trying to solve the problem by creating economic stimulus with deficit budgets, and encouraging consumerism.

The reality is, that so many of our daily needs are supplied by transportation, transmission, and generation systems whose financial and environmental costs are skyrocketing.

The reality is, my family is just as vulnerable as everyone else.

The reality is, that we do have a root cellar full of potatoes, wood for the stove, and gravity water, so I know that we can have mashed potatoes for dinner tonight.

Beyond that, my guess is as good as yours, but I will bet on animal-power, and an Earth-based livelihood.

I don’t see that as noble, or idealistic, or a dream (ie. Thread; Caught between dollar and dream). I see it as my responsibility to my family, present and future, to make realistic investments in the best chance at security that I can. Carl

[Carl Russell]

I don’t know how prepared we are for “hard times”, as I have been around the calendar a few times and realize that we never have any perspective on the future until it is the past. So I don’t pretend to be able to see what we are truly in for.

However, back in the 70-80’s when I was still in school, I began to be skeptical about so many of the careers that I had to choose from. I saw little security in them. I started then to see a sustainability associated with lifestyles that used land, plants and animals, low-debt, low in-put, low-cost, low-impact, natural sources of power and energy, and were primarily driven by self-sufficiency. Low cash-flow!!!

There is no way that I could have stayed at it this long without making the choice to stay home. We have had our farm since the late 30’s. For most of this time it has been a Tree Farm, concentrating on forestry, and forest products. There is just enough open land in conjunction with neighboring fields to have a self-sufficiency scale diversified farm. Although there is no mortgage, there are down-sides to Co-ownership, and we have put, and will put, a lot of time into caring for my aging mother. (Family is another “cost” in our modern economy that needn’t be. True security probably has to be about family.)

Anyway, there is a lot of talk today about collapse. In a way I have been waiting too long for it. I remember a black Tuesday in Oct. 1986. I was logging with my first horse on a job where one of my neighbors was painting the porch. He had Public Radio on, and when I pulled out hitches I could here the frantic reports of the crash. I would stand in the woods listening to the sounds of nature, smelling the mixture of my sweat, manure, and spruce pitch, and I felt so ready. I had been at it for 6 months. The solution that I had chosen seemed so truthful, that regardless of my inexperience I was certain I would be alright.

Today I feel empowered by twenty more years of fine tuning the original objective. I still feel certain of its truthfulness. We are many times more proficient than I was back then. We have many options on the table, a diversified income stream, and a pretty good ability to take care of ourselves, and several other families to boot.

But, I’ve got to say that in a lot of ways this has been a hard hand to play. I always tried to “shoot the moon”, and many times felt flat on my face (playing Hearts). I realize that I have put a lot of time into things that I see as invaluable investments, skills, animal power, family, off-grid living, home-based enterprises, that will only really pay off for us IF there is a collapse.

So, on one hand I feel we are prepared to be sustainably self-sufficient, but on the other hand, if this keeps dragging out, we run the risk of being slowly strangled like everyone else. You know “eggs in a basket” and all that! I know that Earth-based lifestyles and systems defined by natural energy flow are the only true sustainable choice, but we may still have to go through some really “hard times” before it works for us. And the truth is, it won’t be until we get on the other side of it before we can see who made it.

My objective is two-fold. Set up a system on this farm that has the best shot for us to make it, and to pass along. And to set an example of the way I see it, just to throw into the mix, because I have learned a lot from what others left behind. As long as I’m able, I’ll just keep scratching the Earth, my cave-paintings. Carl

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