[Carl Russell]

Cold and blowing snow. Got 10″ fresh powder yesterday. Spent most of the day cleaning up. Shoveled 18″ total off the horse trailer. Hadn’t moved it since we started getting snow two weeks ago. Anyway this is PERFECT logging weather not too hot, good sledding, and snow isn’t so deep you can’t move around. 15 degrees F right now. Carl

[Carl Russell]

The bare horse foot is easiest to maintain and obviously gives the horse the most natural foundation. I have done a lot of work with bare-foot horses, plowing, mowing, and logging. As long as we are working on field or woods dirt I see no need to shoe the horse from the stand point of what is best for the horses feet.
I do have shoes on my horses most of the time though because I use them regularly for logging. I started out from the beginning to learn how to shoe my own horses. I wanted to be able to recover quickly and cost effectively when a shoe was thrown during work. Even twenty years ago it was way too expensive to pay to have the horse shod by someone else. Being able to shoe my own is affordable, but it also gives my the flexibility to work on a couple of feet one afternoon, and can fit the shoeing in around other work.

The only reason I shoe my horses is for traction. I rarely have flat shoes on, more often caulked pulling type. When challenging a horse to move logs that are often in difficult places, and are never a controlled amount of weight, traction is one of the most important features to maintain the level of confidence the animal needs to accomplish the task. This is not traction just so they can walk without slipping, this is haunches down, nose to the ground, give it all you got kind of traction. We don’t work that hard all the time, but to make a logging operation successful on an on-going basis, that is what you need from time to time. Or you can go get the tractor. Carl

[Carl Russell]

By diversifying the enterprise of our farm and home-life, and simultaneously developing and improving the skills that we need to provide for ourselves food, heat, buildings, trained animals, electrical power systems, shod horses, home-plumbed wood fired hot water heating systems, etc. we turn many of our endeavors into the making of livelihood, not earning of living. But to earn for the loans, fuel bills etc. we have to produce product and services. Even then the livelihood comes into play because it is the foundation. I don’t measure time I put into my livelihood as expense that needs to be covered by those money-making enterprises. Like putting manure into a garden most of the time we spend with our animals, kids, land, garden and so on, is truly an investment. It is an investment that may never be cashed in.
Because it is an investment, I don’t see it as an expense and therefore it doesn’t weigh down the equation. As Mark suggests there is something odd about this investment that is difficult to explain but it kind of sneaks up on you like the moment when you realize that this kid “helping” you move firewood truly believes that he/she is contributing, and that even though you know you could have moved twice as much all by yourself you are having one of those rare experiences that make your whole life worth-while. That is when I say I get my profit in places where money has no value. So think of the magic of making an investment that provides profit but is not an expense, then do the math!!! Carl

[Carl Russell]

When I used to drink I thought the beer tasted better the more change I had in my pocket!!!! I have four Belgians, not a one matched in coloration. Nor did I go looking for Belgians. The horses I own were animals that were in my price range, age range, degree of training(little-none preferred), size range, health, and disposition. I truly can’t say that this is an endorsement of Belgians, perhaps it is. The only time their Belgianess(?) comes into play is when someone asks what breed of horses I have.

[Carl Russell]

Mark aren’t corks a little soft? I remember doing the same thing because so many people pronounce caulks as corks. Anyway caulks in the woods year round for me. Traction is traction, and traction is confidence when it is needed. Drill-tex has been pretty inadequate for me. In the winter I prefer sharp caulks. On ice I want to see the chips fly. I just make sure that the inside caulk is angled inward so that it is less likely to jab into the inside of the other foot. Horses figure out how sharp those caulks are after a couple of cuts and they stop stepping on themselves. Furthermore, its a long way from the heart, and I’ve never had a wound turn into bad situation. I take a pulling shoe, cut the center out of the toe caulk with a grinder, in essence making two. Then I sharpen the front edge. The turned heel on the outside I cut sharp edge in back. The inside I cut in the other plane, and sharpen the inner edge. This give the horse security against skating too far in any one direction. I have pulled more than a few logs in snow and never put balling pads or rim pads on, but I can see the logic. Of all the miles I’ve traveled in the woods in winter, the few times I’ve had to get down and knock out snow balls has not been a big problem for me. I like to have something to do while they catch their breathe, and handling their feet is never wasted time. Carl

[Carl Russell]

John:confused: What was the point of that?:( On this forum we will not catch your posts, or edit them, you are on your own to be constructive and polite. You have been given a chance, and several people have tried to encourage you to participate more positively. Name calling will not be tolerated here. You are no longer welcome here. Carl 😮

[Carl Russell]

Sharon & KC, I was just thinking about you folks today, wondering if you had found the site yet, and here you are. Welcome. Carl

[Carl Russell]

There are many ways to look any term. Sustainability is very much that way. To me, sustainable practices are different than the sustainability of a particular farming enterprise. Obviously, if certain practices reduce the effectiveness of an enterprise then the choice to use that practice could be seen as unsustainable, regardless of how “sustainable” the practice truly is. With so many things there is an ideal that we may never achieve, but that ideal is still the consolidation of the philosophy that drives us.

[Carl Russell]

Rather than hiding book info/reviews in threads or forums related to the topic of the book, let’s start a books/resources forum in Etcetera Category. Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Rod 141 wrote:

…… naturally inclined to follow the group ways.

It may seem too simple, but we lack community because we don’t practice it. For several thousand years we have been working within artificial power structures that insulate us from the difficulties of life as part of the natural world. In all the supposed positive ways that this has affected us, one negative is that we have had less and less need, or even occasion to act as natural humans. We have found success and surplus which has given us opportunity for individual expression, but this has also cultivated individualism. We replaced the need for the group with the groups need for the individual, which gave rise to a long list of expectations for membership, which includes the competition to out-perform others to demonstrate worth.
There are so many parts of our modern culture that interfere with natural expression of males, females, fathers, mothers, families, children, leaders, healers, ….. that we no longer practice what it means to be human. And Group we are. Now we act like a group of individuals. Is that a group?
I believe that when the veils are eroded and the bare naked truth of our vulnerability on this planet are clear, people naturally respond the our most basic need, our most basic skill, Community. This is happening all around us. It is happening right here on this page. Some people will have to wait until the artificial power structures collapse, others have been gaining increasing levels of insight for many years.
But as Rod says, it is difficult when your choices are not shared by those around you. But as we discuss this issue, it gains strength. As we practice what we can where we can, it gains strength. Trying to create it is not the same as practicing it, and therefore that may be one reason why intentional community building can be so difficult. And, if our desire for community is to facilitate our pursuit of a particular lifestyle, isn’t that also individualistic?
I think we have to be patient, trust our human abilities, reach out, stand out, and show that we have faith that human community really does exist (albeit in the shadows), by our participation in it. Wow I am so pleased with where this Discussion Forum is going in such a short time! Carl

[Carl Russell]

There probably is a great opportunity for several Buy/Sell Forums under Etcetera Category, ie. Real Estate, Equipment, Livestock, Resources. We will work on that, thanx, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Agri-forestry is agriculture. Sustainability is also a personal issue, and individual sustainability is based on personal choices. Sustainable forestry is however dependent on natural forest processes that do not include human objectives, or uses. When we think about forest uses that are intended to encourage a sustainable forest resource then we need to place at the highest priority those processes that are fundamental to the natural forest ecosystem. Recognizing that our uses will change that is the next step. It is a matter of shades of gray after that, in terms of which choices make the most sense to you personally. Great discussion. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Rod, more quick bits of feed back. It sounds like you want to drive with lines because that is what you’re used to. Tractors etc. But working with oxen is different. If you are out by their heads they will respond to you in ways that you will only get if you are out there. They are very preceptive and gain a great deal by being able to follow the body language of the teamster. Any animals that are working will benefit from a break as well as the teamster. Working animals that are given breaks work harder between breaks. These cattle are trained in the basics of driving, they do not need further intellectual challenge in new ways of driving. They need purposeful work learning to use the communication system to perform that, and learning you. You will benefit, as they will, by focusing on their capabilities at this point and reaffirming them before making small steps toward your intended future uses. I know that you will be able to ride plenty once you three have a strong working relationship. Carl

[Carl Russell]

John, this forum is about sharing what works and doesn’t work. If you could share what your actual experiences have been then I’m sure that people will respond warmly, even if you are painting a black picture. Sharing your anger though is not applicable. Unfortunately it is Off-Topic without any contribution of substance. Also we can dismiss your posts if we don’t like them, but not without first reading them, unless you get censored, but the point of the forum is discussion and we truly want people to contribute to the threads not just take up space or other people’s time. If your gone, OK, but if you stay, please know that we can be warm and although some of us may seem idealistic, or possibly foolish to you, we want to be part of a growing community that can include you. Take care. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome Sally,
It is so good to see your here. I’m really happy that you can use this forum to promote your film, just as Eric can his bread, or we can the Animal-power Field Days, or John could his personal ventures. I’m sorry but contributions like John has been making really are not welcome here. It clearly states that in our rules section. Even while disagreeing we need to respond in some manner to continue the discussion. That is the point of the forum, Discussion. Comments that are disparaging are at their most basic, Off-Topic and need to be kept Off-Topic. Let’s all try to keep that in mind.
I would love for people to truly try to open up and share their experiences. If we greet them with confrontational responses that’s unfair.
Now which curve is it that we are ahead of??? We are all victims of place and time. We are also beneficiaries of the same. Each of us has different opportunities than the other and we each choose different ways to respond. I feel like I’m always working on something new, and I try to make my choices based on my own initiative, but reading how others are interpreting our group challenge and what they are doing about it is very stimulating to me.
There is a quivering mass of warm bodies out there, and we can all get smothered in it without knowing that there are others that we might succeed with. Let’s make the best of this site while we can. I love you guys. Carl

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