Carl Russell

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 2,964 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: Chet Grimes VT PBS short film about a Vermont horselogger #90006
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    John Hammond says that the blacksmith was Albert LaLiberty of Island Pond, VT. “He was a southpaw and had the unorthodox way of working on the anvil the same way a right handed person would. He made his own shoes from barstock. He told me he started shoeing in the army during WW1 and opened his shop in 1927. In his prime he and his help used to shoe a rail car load of horses a day from the woods camps in the area. His shop was still going in the early 90’s.”

    Carl

    in reply to: sugaring #89978
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    This year we have refurbished a 2 x 8 leader evaporator, and I have decided to install 300 taps on pipeline. I have been having more and more trouble with access during sugaring season for gathering with horses. When I first started gathering and selling sap around 2000, I could work on the woods trails all winter, and pack in and freeze some great trails. Every once in a while we would have a quick break-up, and would have to work in mud, but generally the trails would last for the whole sugaring season.

    However, over the last 5-10 years it has become increasingly difficult to get the kind of conditions that allow me to gather with the horses…. too much mud, and ice. I have a significant hill to climb to get access to the bush anyway, so my longterm plan as always been to install dumping stations in the bush, so I don’t have to come all the way down, and back up, just to unload. I see the installment this spring as being a hybrid compromise.

    It will allow us to operate for this year, and likely a few more, without needing to get animals into the woods. Eventually we will move back to mostly buckets as we expand to the 500-750 taps that I am aiming for (with the 3 x 10), and use this pipeline for dumping and some taps in areas where access is difficult for buckets.

    I am almost done with modifications to the sugarhouse, and will start laying out pipe soon, and will probably just move right into tapping. I have a friend near here who tapped out mid January and was boiling on Friday. I personally will never be ready for January sap….

    Carl

    in reply to: Yokes and Jockey Yokes #89968
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    I personally don’t think it matters what “style” of yoke you use, it is just like Donn said, the main thing is that evener and yoke must be the same length. Jockey yokes should fit the animal, and can either stay on the yoke, or be detachable.

    I use an old spread chain on a pipe because it was made by one of my mentors, and has lasted me close to 30 years…. also, I can wrap the chain around the pipe to shorten the hitch. It is rugged and can withstand the rough terrain, and will hold back heavy loads when going down hill.

    I think your biggest challenge will be making a suitable evener to match your 6 foot neck yoke. A good stout hardwood 2×4 with eye-bolts should be sufficient for the neck yoke. 1×3 box channel can be another fairly stout base for both neck yoke and evener. You just need to find clevises and attachments that coincide with the jockey yokes and single trees.

    I also would recommend some triangulation on both for stoutness, but primarily on the evener, as that is how the evener actually evens the force differential as animal pull against each other and the resistance of draft. A minimum of 3 inch drop from hitch-pin center to singletree attachment point is good.

    Carl

    in reply to: Log Par buckling? #89943
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    I made up skids that I could attach chains to the ends of. That way the weight of the log would hold them in place, but at the load the logs would roll off. It requires rolling the logs by hand to put them into place on the pile, but solves the chain under the log issue. Of course one can pull the chains out with the animals… or bunch the chain in front of the log, then roll the log over to free the chain.

    Alternatively I have also looped chain around the first log on the top of the pile to accomplish the same thing. The challenge with this is that the chain must be over the end of the skid, or the log will be squeezed between chain and skid, and will not make it up onto the pile. In the end the chain should be attached to the front of middle of the tier, not to the far side, so at some point the logs should roll off the chain before they go too far.

    By the way, I made it through all of this experimenting. Had to skid logs back out of the road where they fell off the other side of the truck. Had to skid them off the truck because one end didn’t make it. Had to cut new skids because one broke. Had to increase my vocabulary of curse words, and suffered a few bruises to limb and ego. But in the end successfully mastered a skill that made the use of animals effective enough that I worked for 25 years before I bought a landing machine.

    If it is confusing, or tedious, or challenging, doesn’t mean that has to be the ultimate reality. Patience and creativity, and finesse, can bring a lot of functionality to tasks like par-buckling logs. Rolling large logs is a huge mechanical advantage over pulling, or outright lifting. Having that sense of confidence provides a resource for time and creativity. If you devise a way to effectively roll the logs, you and your animals will work much easier. Using living power depends on such initiative.

    In the right conditions I have rolled entire trees up on the pile, both with parbuckle, and by hand, before the trees were cut into logs. The first attempt is by no means indicative of the long-term effectiveness once the technique is perfected. I think that perfecting peavey techniques of rolling logs by hand are critical to being able to effectively understand parbuckling.

    Don’t give up before you get started…. it takes tons of practice…. Literally “tons”, of practice.

    I have attached a few pics of large logs that I had to parbuckle with the animals in order to move….. and a broken sled that suffered from my experimentation, that required recovery of the huge oak log, and parbuckling all over again.

    Carl

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    in reply to: Abode Farm is Hiring for 2017 #89931
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    ?

    in reply to: X-mas #89869
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Thank you…. wishing you good fortune in the expanding growth of a new season.

    Carl

    in reply to: Sample Logging Contracts? #89745
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Below is my comprehensive contract. May not maintain formatting in this medium, but it does show all of the clauses that I think are pertinent.

    I do not use percentage, or stumpage rates for bids or estimates. I use service fees based on daily costs and potential rates of production to estimate the cost of extraction meeting the silvicultural objectives. Market price, minus trucking fees, minus harvesting rates, equals the stumpage value. Good timber has high stumpage, poor timber is low (or possibly non-existent), but loggers get what they need to deliver the desired product, an improved residual stand.

    I have used this formula to balance the loss of profit for pulp against the value of sawlogs in my own work, as well as on jobs that I supervise for clients. Logger sells firewood for $50/cd on the landing, but it costs $80/cd to get it out. LO loses $ there, but $ are available from the profit from sawlogs sold for more than contracted logging fees.

    I have seen too many marginal harvesting jobs because loggers are cutting themselves thin in orderr to be competitive, which is understandable, but from my experience the only way for a LO to get the work they deserve is to make sure the operator gets the income they deserve. Don’t cut yourself short or you won’t be able to separate yourself from the competition.

    I can email you this in a word.doc so that you can cut and paste any portions that apply to what you are doing.

    Carl

    Timber Sale Contract

    This contract made this _____ day of _________________, 20___, between ____________________ ____________________________________________, party of the first part, hereinafter called Owner, and ______________________________________________________________________________________, hereinafter called the Purchaser.

    Witnesseth that in consideration of the premises hereof, the Owner does hereby sell to the Purchaser, and the Purchaser does hereby purchase from the Owner, a quantity of timber located on the Owner’s property in the town of ____________________, Vermont, hereby sold and hereinafter described and identified, subject to all the terms, conditions, and stipulations set forth.

    1. All trees designated by marking with blue paint at breast height and at the stump shall be cut, except that removal of a limited number of previously undesignated trees, necessary for the construction and use of roads and trails, or due to hang-ups or suspended tops, will not be in violation of this provision.
    2. Title to all timber included in this contract shall remain in the Owner’s name until it has been severed and paid for. Owner shall retain security interest in all logs and wood until paid for by Purchaser.
    3. All tree marked must be cut, except those trees marked with an “X” in paint, and marked cull trees of excessive diameter, which may be girdled or removed at the discretion of the Purchaser.
    4. All stumps shall be cut below a height of 12” above the ground level.
    5. All trees cut shall be utilized to the maximum practical extent for sawlogs, pulpwood, and/or fuelwood. All broken and/or sprung trees will be cut to the ground.
    6. All un-merchantable material shall be left in the woods. Tops will be lopped to lay on the ground below a height of three (3) feet, and bole-wood will be slashed in such a way that the un-harvested material will not increase fire hazard, nor impede access for recreation or future harvesting.
    7. The Owner reserves the right to sell all un-merchantable material from the sale area, provided that the removal of such material does not interfere with the operation of the Purchaser.
    8. Harvesting shall be limited to the designated sale area, described as stand(s) #__________ of the Owner’s forest management plan (map attached), and/or bounded by blazed property lines, pink ribbon, and/or trees marked with three (3) horizontal lines of tree-marking paint.
    9. Due care shall be used in logging so as not to damage or destroy young growth, or un-marked trees that will make up the residual stand after harvest.
    10. All skid trails shall be maintained and drained during operations, and will be smoothed, drained, and water-barred and left in a condition satisfactory to the Owner before completion of logging operations.
    11. Landing areas shall have adequate drainage that will be maintained during operations, and they will be smoothed and have all logging debris and buttings removed, as well as being seeded with conservation mix (or desired seed for grass crops in fields) and mulched before completion of the operation.
    12. Purchaser is authorized to construct logging roads of ingress and egress, landing areas, and skid trails for the purpose of transporting logs from the property subject to the approval of the Owner. Location of primary skid trails and landings will be designated by blue ribbons and blue paint marks on trees.
    13. Purchaser has the right to enter upon the property to cut and remove marked trees. This includes the right to use necessary equipment to complete the job, subject to any restrictions specified elsewhere in this contract.

    Timber Sale Contract (cont.)

    14. Purchaser agrees to conduct the harvesting operation with as much care as possible, and in a proper workman-like manner, and to leave no un-natural debris at the end of the operation, provided that no liability shall be attached to the Purchaser for damage or debris which may be said to be customary in the harvesting of timber and cordwood. Purchaser shall deposit all un-natural litter in trash containers and shall periodically remove all such refuse from the premises.
    15. All slash within twenty-five (25) feet of the centerline of the right-of-way of any public or private road, and adjoining property lines, shall be removed. In addition, slash will be removed completely from all streams. The tops of felled trees shall not be left hanging on standing trees.
    16. Payment will based on the progress of cutting. Such payments will be based on mill scale. Copies of scale slips, and receipts for fuelwood, shall be provided to the Owner with payment. All timber shall be paid for within one week (7 days) of payment to Purchaser from the mill, or fuelwood customer.
    17. Timber (logs) cut under the terms of this contract will be paid for in dollars per thousand board feet ($/MBF), and dollars per cord ($/Cd.) in accordance with the following rates.

    Species, Product, and Mill/ Buyer

    Mill Price
    ($/MBF-Cd)

    Trucking Expense ($/MBF – Cd.)

    Logging Expense ($/MBF – Cd.)

    Stumpage
    ($/MBF – Cd.)

    Mills or End-users, location and contact information listed here:

    1. Fuelwood will be sold log-length from the landing. Cordage will be estimated based on acceptable average log-truck loads.

    2. Sawlogs will be sold to local mills and concentration yards. Trucking expense will be paid before logging expense and stumpage value is calculated.
    ($Mill Price – $Trucking = $ on landing) x (% according to log grade average) = Stumpage

    3. __________________________________________________________________________

    4. __________________________________________________________________________

    5. __________________________________________________________________________

    6. __________________________________________________________________________

    7. __________________________________________________________________________

    Timber Sale Contract (cont.)

    18. Purchaser agrees to comply with and enforce upon all employees and contractors, all applicable Federal, State, and local laws and bylaws, and regulations promulgated thereunder.
    19. Owner warrants and covenants that all timber which is subject of this contract is owned by him/her free and clear of any lien or encumbrance, and that the Owner has a good right to sell the same. Owner, or Owner’s agent, and Purchaser have inspected the entire perimeter subject to this contract, and Owner warrants and covenants that said boundary is correct and genuine. In consequence of this warranty, Owner shall indemnify Purchaser of any third party claim alleging the cutting of trees not owned by Owner when in fact such cutting was within the designated perimeter.
    20. The Purchaser covenants and agrees to save the Owner harmless from any and all claims for injuries and damage to persons or property, resulting from acts or omissions of the Purchaser, his agents, employees, or others under his control during harvesting operations.
    21. This contract may not be assigned, transferred, sold, or made over to any other party without prior written permission from the Owner
    22. The Owner reserves the right to cancel this contract, or to suspend operations on the sale area at any time, if the provisions of this contract are not being carried out by Purchaser.
    23. Purchaser agrees that in any instance that his discretion may change the market, or end product of timber cut under this contract, Owner must be informed before such changes can occur.
    24. The terms of this contract are completely set forth in this agreement, and none of its conditions may be varied or modified except in writing by the Owner, or his agent. Active harvesting operations are expected to commence on or about _________________________, 20___, and will continue until the designated timber has been cut and paid for, as weather, holidays, and markets dictate, to a reasonable degree, not to extend beyond ________________________, 20___, and to continue only if a time extension is agree upon and signed by both Owner and Purchaser. At the end of the above mentioned time limit, or any extension thereof, Purchaser’s right, title, and interest in the timber and cordwood described in this contract shall terminate and revert to the Owner, and this contract will terminate and expire.

    This contract shall begin on the date of signature. Signed and dated this _______ day of _______________, 20_____.

    ___________________________________ ________________________________
    Owner Witness

    ___________________________________ _________________________________
    Purchaser Witness

    **Addendum**

    Harvesting under this contract will be restricted to Winter conditions due to high water table in the harvesting area, and on-going agricultural use of the landings. All active harvesting shall be concluded before the ground thaws in the spring, and the landing will be completely returned to useable condition by a date no later than April 15, as conditions and weather permit.

    The Purchaser holds current and effective permits to allow for crossing the Gilead Brook during the winter harvesting season.

    A performance bond of $1000 dollars will be posted by the Purchaser and will be held in escrow by the Owner’s agent, Carl Russell of Russell Forestry Services, to be returned upon satisfactory completion of this contract.

    All payments for timber will be made payable to the Owner, Peter and Andrea Sault, and provided with scale slips to Carl Russell, Russell Forestry Services, 341 MacIntosh Hill Rd., Randolph, VT 05060. Telephone (802) 234-5524 e-mail rfs@myfairpoint.net

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by Carl Russell.
    in reply to: Small Farm price reduced – we want to find a farmer!!! #89665
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    yay!!!

    in reply to: 2016 Annual Gathering #89523
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    I’m calling this a Bob-devil. One of the last sleds built by Les Barden, it has not been used yet.

    Red oak runners with wooden shoes, this sled has a “scoot-style” pole and hitch for quick and easy transition if slope and conditions allow. It is not too big to be used loose with one horse.

    The design allows for logs to be loaded onto the single bunk, with the pole for long-distance transport (bobsled), or without pole for maneuverability (go-devil).

    Solid mortise and tenon construction reinforced with threaded steel rods makes this device substantial and functional, while being a work of art from the hands of one of New England’s finest and innovative craftsmen of working horse equipment.

    I am bringing it with me to the DAPNet Annual Gathering 10/7-9 in Charlestown, NH. to be sold.

    Events

    Asking $500 OBO — at (802) 353-1086 Russell Forestry Services.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Carl Russell.
    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    in reply to: Mapping Software #89476
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    I have been using a great app on my iPad and iPhone called GISkit. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gis-kit/id429688355?mt=8 It costs a little bit of cash but it is heads and tails above any other field mapping app. I don’t even carry a compass (well I carry a compass, just don’t use it), or pencil, or clipboard anymore.

    It is easy to use, has many features, GPS tracking, in-the-field editing, and several layers of map styles. There is no desktop version, but I can export GPX and KMZ files which can be opened in other mapping program and even google earth. Vermont Agency of Natural Resources has a statewide data base with interactive maps which I have been using for the map drawing tools.

    The first image below shows a screenshot of GISkit with data collected in the field and refined within the app. The second is data collected in GISkit uploaded onto the VT ANR map.

    Carl

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Carl Russell.
    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    in reply to: balky horse #89459
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Great to know Will. The point always is, you only need to push as hard as necessary. The props are never, or should never be, the focus. The pressure always comes from you, and the stick is just for clarification. If it isn’t needed throw it away.

    Sometimes just being prepared to use the stick is enough. It may have assisted you to conger up the confidence that you were going to get what you want from her, and she saw that.

    Those are the components of communication that I always seem to focus in on. I don’t want the horse to see, or feel the stick, but I use it so that they can see my intent. As soon as I see that they see me, and respond to me, then I get rid of the stick.

    Good job, and have fun, Carl

    in reply to: balky horse #89329
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    So true to form, I had a few more thoughts while doing chores..

    What I was trying to get at was that when I see a horse resist pressure, I have learned to realize that they are unclear about our pressure-based conversation.

    Horses respond to pressure, we know that. The question in my mind is whether they are responding to my, or to their own, initiative. If a horse is resistant, it makes me think that they have become accustom to making the choice on their own.

    Of course more pressure will cause them to move, but I want to know whether it is because they understand how and why I am using pressure, or is it still because they decided they wanted to get away from the pressure.

    That is how I use flexibility. I use the most simple forms of pressure, over and over every day, building up to more intense requests like lifting heavy loads, to measure their response, and to show them how I can use pressure, and release, to get my subtle points across. It is the conversation, the accepted use of, and response to, pressure that leads up to the consistent response that I expect when working.

    More pressure without a firm grasp on that communication can lead to perpetual challenges. Also I am not interested in a horse that is submissive, or succumbs to the discomfort of substantial pressure. I want a horse that moves forward with their inherent demonstration of power through motion so that I can go along and use it to my advantage.

    I personally usually do not have problems with horses not moving away from my pressure. I have learned how to escalate my intention to very high levels, and I know how to use it magnanimously, and how to keep a cap on it…. apparently it is not far below the surface. Because of this, I end up focusing much more on release because the pressure seems second nature.

    However, none of this may apply to any of what you are doing, it is just an indication of some of the layers that can exist within these relationships.

    Carl

    in reply to: balky horse #89327
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Oh yeah, and Will, I have found that a stick, about 4 feet long ( not a two-hander…. I know you thought I was grabbing a club.?), often cut like a marshmallow stick, with a fork slightly sharpened works great to motivate a horse. It can be held easily in a hand with a rein, and does not require any extra hand movement for use. I just stand within reach of the tail-head and give the horse my normal command for advancement at the same time that I gently irritate them right where the tail-hair starts to get longer. It is a very sensitive spot on a horse, and I have found most horses cannot resist the tendency to move forward. This is not a jab, or a slap, or anything aggressive, just an uncomfortable sensation that you are making at exactly the same time you chirp, kiss, or ask them to move.

    I particularly like it because it can be used without any additional hand movement that could telegraph it to the horse so they never know if it is coming. You should be careful though, because it can be surprising, and if you are too close you could be kicked, although I have to say I have never had a horse kick when I do it.

    The problem with crops and whips is that they are generally pretty benign and horses can become immune to them. And the only way to make them less so is to create significant hand movement which serves to confuse your starting rein command. Also using the whipping motion can create whooshing sounds that alert the horse to what is coming, which can harden their resistance, or set them up for moving every time they hear a whoosh.

    Some resistant horses need a harder poke, but not for long. I rarely need to use the device more than a few times, but if I think they need a refresher, it is a matter of slicing one off a nearby sapling, and back on track….

    The main thing to remember is to touch the animal at exactly the same time you make your command. I like to kiss, or suck on my teach, as that is a staccato command that matches the touch. I give a ready command by picking up slack and making contact with the bit, maybe a verbal ready at the same time as gathering slack, but when I see the horse’s ears or head-carriage indicate that they are online, I touch and kiss.

    This tuning I would use in a situation like you describe, even if she was a willing starter in every other situation. She just needs to be reminded that the command to start means …. Start.

    Not being there I don’t know anything about what you are doing, so my first post was to point out how I have learned to see that the resistance doesn’t always mean that she needs more pressure….. Sometimes it means that I have not made myself clear, or that I have missed some other subtle indicator.

    Good luck, Carl

    in reply to: balky horse #89326
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Donn, I don’t think our responses are opposites. I always expect a horse to be able to do what I know they can….. I was mostly highlighting how unwillingness from a horse can indicate miscommunication.

    The expectations that build within us during the down-time can often create problems for us by shrouding our view of the reality of the moment, which I have found to interfere with communication. Also, that the horse’s resistance can indicate the step is too big, or the pressure too advanced.

    I usually do all of this appraisal and reaction in a very short period of time with horses that I have worked with for a while. It is only now working with this untrained team that I am getting more clarity on how the steps break down. It is helpful for me to understand, and I think can inform the process for all of us.

    I agree with everything you wrote. I approach any animal with a sense of confidence that they can do everything I ask of them….. It is an essential posture and mindset. It is however seasoned with an active flexibility that shows the horse that I see where they are, and will work with them to make myself clear about what I want…..

    Carl

    in reply to: balky horse #89307
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Will, I don’t know if this will be helpful, but one of the reasons I have horses is because of their affordability. If I don’t have work for them, or other work I need to concentrate on, I can afford to leave them alone for months at a time. That being said, there are side effects, some of which you may be experiencing.

    Donn has mentioned several times how horses strive to be comfortable. You obviously recognize that as you mention that in regard to your objective in the round pen. When horses are not pressed upon for long periods of time they become accustomed to their own comfort parameters….. their comfort zone. I have found that every time I approach horses after such a down-period, I need to re-affirm that I can see that zone, and that my objective is to reward them for remaining comfortable as I gain their attention and lead them to leave the comfort zone.

    I equate this to starting into a lengthy email, or measuring a 2×4, or just sitting down to a cup of coffee, and Lisa, or the kids, or a phone call, interrupts me with some pressing comment or discussion. It doesn’t matter how much I love these people, or how much I am committed to responding to them, I feel a tinge of discomfort and frustration…. I cannot believe how many things Lisa swears she told me, but I don’t remember. However, if when approaching they can see how busy I am, or focused, or relaxed, and give me some room and time to shift my focus to them, then it is a completely different experience for me.

    Of course as an adult human being I have the responsibility to learn form this and to make myself comfortable with the disruptions. However, a horse is less intellectual, and when they become dependent on themselves for comfort maintenance, they require a consistently subtle approach.

    This relates to what I read above in two ways. First I see her resistance to your effort for her to pull as both she is unclear about the message, and uncertain about the outcome. What comes to mind for me is that she i not trusting outside of her comfort zone, and she cannot differentiate this request from any other initiative of yours.

    I am currently working with a team of horses that are 9 years old. They have been with me for about 1.5 years. It is likely that they have never had any formal training, other than some evidence that points to some rough treatment, apparently 3-4 years of age. Talk about time off…. I started right away with them working on trust issues. They had been self-motivated for so long that their comfort zone around me was very small. Just reaching up with the halter caused them to back away from me. I made some progress with them last summer, but ran into major issues with disruptive negative response, so I just went back to working the older team and just focused on general handling.

    I sold the older team in April, and in May finally got harnesses set and adjusted, so I started working in earnest with them in June. I have yet to hook them to anything, but we are making steady progress. One of the hardest things for me to reconcile is the huge mountain of work that I need to get done with these horses. This is the first time in 30 years that I have not had at least one horse that I could get some work done with, and it is incredibly frustrating, particularly because I can see exactly what I need to do with these horses to get there… The problem is timing.

    When I come to our daily workout with this mountain in front of me, and knowing exactly what I need to do, I discount where they are, unconsciously, and I am met with almost instantaneous resistance…. (Kid just ran up and started talking to me while I was in mid-thought about something completely different)…. This is what I have experienced with 2 weeks, or 2 months off….. my expectations are disrespectful of where the horse is, and they return the same. It may seem like the horse is the one that is disrespectful, but this work has helped me to see what I bring to the equation too.

    So, what I have been working on with these boys is what I call “Defining the Comfort Zone”. The first thing I do when I approach them in the field is to reward them for their apparent comfort, by washing away any objectives of my own. I approach them with absolute release. This is what I call “seeing” them. When they “see” that I can “see” how comfortable they are, we have begun our conversation. Then I assert some pressure, any pressure to see how they respond. If they are resistant, or move away, then I stop immediately and return to the release…. showing them that I can “see” the limits of their comfort zone. This is how I define the comfort zone. At once, it is information for me, but it also is informative for them, and they begin to understand that I am respecting them, and they begin to think that they can respect me….. maybe not trust yet.

    Once I get them to respect me and show that I can expand their comfort zone a bit, they will start to realize that I have an objective to get them out of it, but that I know where they are comfortable, and will return there quickly and often. This way that not only begin to accept the expanding comfort zone, but more importantly begin to trust me as I push them out.

    It is very hard work for me, as I tend to want to take large steps. These geldings have too much history of not having, or avoiding, expanding comfort zones, to make big steps, so I have to remember two things; I can’t put on the roof until the foundation is laid, and I need to recognize the slightest tries.

    This may all relate to your effort to hook her to a fence post as it seems like she is telling you that it is too big of a step. I have had some major negative responses to stepping into shafts, and backing up to the singletree (especially after chains have jingled)….. on the surface pretty simple fundamental lessons, but clearly too big steps. For the shafts I started working on the lead again, and asking the horse to back in between the shafts. When I started, it was all resistance in every direction, so again, too big of a step…. What can I ask and get a positive response? One step forward… good release. One step back? good… release…. a few more times, a back step in between the shafts, good, release. I had to let go of my apparently simple objective, and get even more simple.

    For the single tree, I drove the horses up to it so that they had to step on it…. chains jingle, same negative response, but this time VERY responsive to backing. I even followed it up by putting the single tree in front of the water trough so they had to step on it every time they go to water. After a week we are no dragging the single tree around.

    I am about to hitch them to something like a fence post. They are huge horses, and should have no problem moving a 6 inch piece of firewood 20 feet long…. this is where my mind goes…. especially with 60 Mbf of sawlogs and 30 cords of wood ready to harvest….. but the approach I plan to take is to practice backing and standing, and starting with the single tree, as if I had hitched to something, until they show me they are comfortable with that, and comfortably responsive with my pressure to advance, before I actually hook something behind them.

    I try to see the endeavor as not relating to the components of the situation, but to the communication. When I get a demonstration that they are not responsive to the communication, it doesn’t matter how simple the task seems to be, even in the case of a more experienced horse, and I know that they have done it before, I find it really comes down to me thinking about which part of the directive are they not getting.

    So I guess this relates by showing the horse at every juncture that I can see where they are comfortable, that I can reward them for that, that when I give pressure it will be returned, and that when I expect something, that I am willing to dig down and reduce the expectation until the steps are clear enough that the communication is effective.

    Hope that helps. Good luck, Carl

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 2,964 total)