[Demented Donkey Dame]

@Donn Hewes 30083 wrote:

My limited experience is different, Kristi. I have always felt that the mules size came mostly from his mother and his temperament came mostly from his father. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but what if the mules from your past had been shown the patience I am sure the donkeys have seen? Mules like people, but just like donkeys they are independent and protect what they see as their best interest very strongly. Because they like people we have the makings of a good partner if we will go slowly enough to present things they can accept. In the end I think they are all equids and all benefit from our taking the time to recognize when they are ready for something and when they are not. Patience and controlling our emotions allows them to think about and accept what is being asked of them.

Donn, not taking this the wrong way at all. I just disagree that the mule’s temperament comes from the Jack. They get both size and temperament from the mare. I do have to agree with you that they were not started as slowly, carefully and in a way to build their trust as what we do now. The mules that were good, could have been great and a few of the real bad ones could have been saved. We are seeing better mules today because of the training methods and because they are being bred better. That’s just the way I see it.

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Thanks Donn. We are in the same ballpark about their heads. I find videos show how they travel very well. Those coupling adjustments are so important!

[Demented Donkey Dame]

@Robert MoonShadow 30076 wrote:

Kristi – which donk was this?

It was Galahad, can you imagine him not freaking out?

[Demented Donkey Dame]

I was thinking about that Robert and you are probably correct in your assumption. I have never been around a hinny so have no experience to draw from. I do there are those who prefer them to mules with mare moms.

[Demented Donkey Dame]

@Bradbury Johnson 30062 wrote:

One thing I have found helpful to recognize is this. In addition to deciding whether or not to use drops or spreaders, the more important decision is how long to make those drops. I have found that a 6-8″ drop off the hame rings on both the inside and outside works well, but longer than that allow my boys to work further apart than I want them to. Also, my off horse Pete seems to really dislikes the angle of the lines to the bit when I drop more length from the hame rings. I agree with Jen that a simple ring is safer than a big leather heart for the lines crossing between the horses in the team.

That was going to be my next question….how long? I would think the 6 to 8 inch length should be fine for my boys.

The ring has been safer for me on my daily drives but I still keep a close eye on it. I was teaching the boys to fan when the heart hung up on the bit. I was surprised the donkey tolerated it as well as he did, it took some talking to him to get him safely home. We use the rings in draft circles but I notice in “Pairs” driving there are no rings. I find the differences very interesting.

[Demented Donkey Dame]

LF, your team is a beauty and I hope you don’t mind that I used your photo. It was the best example I could find to illustrate my questions. I always thought that is why spreaders were used was to place them at the correct width.

I have always like the decorative hearts and I have several I use at different times. I also love the spots on your harness! That makes for lots of work when cleaning and conditioning the leather and polishing the spots!~ I’ve been working on mine this week and am just half way done and I have no spots!

I need to add that I like your direct line to the bit. The double spreaders seem to me to break the directness of the lines. Just a thought!

Thanks for the response, maybe our Idaho paths will cross someday!

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Thank you Jen for your wonderful answer! I just knew I could count on a great response for this group. I like two of the ideas you mentioned. The first is the direct line to the mouth. Sometimes I think that I would like the line to be at a better angle. The second thing you mentioned is getting the lines caught under the pole and the yoke which has happened to me.

When I stopped using the heavy weighted heart I noticed that the donkey that will grasp the inside line and pack it in his mouth has stopped doing that. I’m thinking it was the weight of hanging heart that he didn’t like.

With a spreader do you still feel that you need the ring on the lines?

I’m thrilled you found the photo as I was having a tough time figuring out the double spreader equation. I’m more of a recreational driver who dabbles in a few parades each year and next year I plan to take my new team of mammoth donkeys to participate in a Horse Show near Boise, ID. Of course I really want them to look sharp and do their best and get them out in public more.

I’m wondering if line spreaders will have any effect on the boys who want to put their heads down below the neck yoke. I have tried getting after them with the lines and I don’t like that because of course it effects the non offender. I’ve tried check reins that go across their bellys and attach to the lower breeching rings so when they put their heads down it pulls on the breeching. What I see is the head go down and they hang there pulling on their own mouths and no effect to solve the lowering of the head problem. I had one who would pick the neck yoke up in his mouth and pack it. That I solved with a better fitting collar. I don’t think this is a collar problem.
Any ideas if the line spreaders would help my two that want to hang their heads low?

Thank you again Jen for sharing your knowledge!

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Now that I have been working with Mammoth Donkeys and from my past experience with mules, I do have to say that the mule is more horse like than donkey. The mare’s influence has instilled more of her qualities in that young mules mind. When working with the four year old mules vs the two year old colts right off the range, never handled, the mules were ten times tougher to break. I can remember mules not only bucking off the rider but not stopping until the saddle was gone too. My dad was unloaded once when the mule exploded going uphill really for no reason except the mule had gone as far as he wanted to go that day. We had a heck of a time hauling my father off that mountain and he was a long way back in there. To me there just is not enough donkey in a mule and way to much horse.

[Demented Donkey Dame]

“My question is, does this extend to mules? I’ve always been a bit fascinated by them, but never had the chance to interact very much with them so have no idea. I was thinking perhaps the horse influence would be too much and would ruin the relationship for a ox/donkey person?

I think we strayed from the original question so let me attempt an answer. I spent my youth around mules, the ones who were bred from the free roaming mares that were to ornery to ride. Grandpa would put them in with his Jack. I can testify that where a mule gets his temperament from is the mare. Those mules were out to “kill” us!
My best broodmare was sold to raise mules. She is sweetness plus, her babies are being sold before they are born for big bucks! I have handled a few of her mule babies and they were trusting, kind and willing to be your best friend. It takes a mule and a
donkey time to built that trust with their handler but these babies seem to have it right from the start.
My answer would be to look at the mare and what was done with a perspective mule as a baby? Each mule is different, but they certainly will never be like a donkey! There are donkey folks and mule people, I’m glad we switched and will never go back to either mules or horses.

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Labor Day Palouse Empire Threshing Bee Pictures are up on my blog if anyone is interested. Be sure to scroll down to part one also.
It was hot hot hot!!! I really feel for the people out in the sun working all day. It was well worth the trip to see the machinery and teams in action. Check it out at http://www.2011teamdonk.wordpress.com You can make all the pictures larger with a mouse click.

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Geoff, I’ve never seen the harvest. Was there for the spring plowing once. I would really love to go! I’m guessing if a person is there around 10 am they would be in full swing unless it is cool and the humidity is to high that early? As far as I know right now I plan to go. Hopefully the cooler temps won’t slow down the ripening. Do you know if there is a contact person to find out for sure if it is a go? Maybe we could meet up if you decide to head that way.
After our little “run-away” episode last Saturday…that is exactly what sounds my boys need. I won’t be bringing them but it sure would be good for them to hear that noise! http://www.2011teamdonk.wordpress.com has the fun filled story! Not sure if Robert is thinking it was fun-filled yet! Oh and by the way Robert I tightened all the screws in the buggy except the loose one that usually drives the three abreast! LOL~

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Very nice, thank you for the pictures. I like how versatile it is and like Robert said that you have more hold back. That is needed in our steep country. Don’t want the wagon running over the top of Robert’s girls! 🙂
The spring pole setup sure helps to take the weight off the animals, I see it quite often. My Pacific cart has an aluminum pole that is incredibly light. Thank you again!

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Dave, they did great! Congrats! Hope to meet them if you make it up to Robert’s Plow Day in the Salmon River Country in Oct.
I have a good friend in MT who has a pair and she does a great job with them. Makes for a very nice mule in my opinion.

PS Robert and I are off to do a three abreast drive this morning before it gets to hot. We are changing the mix, taking out a slow one and putting in a speedster, and will be going into unknown harvested wheat fields. Will take the camera and post pictures later to the blog. We folks from Idaho know how to kick a little ass into gear! Right Dave!

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Yes, would love to see how you have the poles set up on the wagon, that is very interesting. I also have a solid three abreast neck yoke but decided not to even try it. I like how you cut your neck yoke and then reconnected the two pieces. Three abreasts are a blast! Right Robert MoonShadow!
Thank you for the wonderful photo and the terrific post… please join in more often you have alot to offer!

[Demented Donkey Dame]

Thank you Mulelady! You’ll have to check the blog for the latest update.. my first team has just logged over 500 miles in 2.5 years and the Three Abreast had a very successful Sunday drive! I am so pleased with all my boys!
http://www.2011teamdonk.wordpress.com Working Donkeys Rock, ya know!!

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