[Donn Hewes]

You want to hook three abreast to a bob sled? Just making sure I understand. Donn
On a side note: the picture you posted above is a good one. I have another way i would prefer to hook three to that forecart. That forecart was built so it is pretty easy to move the tongue left or right. I would do that and put my evener pin the the center. Won’t work easily with a bob sled though.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Peyton, These are hard questions to answer. Especially without pictures. With hames that are the right size for the collar; which is 2″ bigger than the collar I believe the curves in the hames will match the collar and they will fit together. They really are not meant to be bent. With out any straps (top or bottom), you can tell if the hames fits the collar. By raising and lower the attachment of the upper hames you can effectively change the length of the hames to some degree. That way one hames might be adjusted to fit collars about 2″ different from one and other. By adjusting where the upper hames is attached to the collar you can chose to make the collar a little narrower perhaps or shorter and wider, but these adjustments are done in tandem with adjusting which holes for the top and bottom strap and will effect the point of draft.

If the point of draft is too low, shorten the upper hames strap; if the point of draft is too high make the upper hames strap longer, but you are limited by how much you can do this with out effecting the shape of the collar. If a collar will fit a horse better if it is a 1/2 shorter and a little wider, use the upper hames adjustment to make the hames a little shorter, then adjust the length of the upper strap to determine point of draft and hames fit to collar. If a collar will fit a horse better if it is a 1/2 longer and a little narrower on the neck, you can make the hames a little longer and this will squeeze the collar that way. These “tricks” are limited in their reach and you still need to start with the right size collar and hames. These can be hard to figure out with old harnesses and old collars. I would start with the collar on the horse; how well does it fit? tight any where? too loose any where? The I would hold up a hames and see if it will begin to fit the collar. If it does, I would then try different strap adjustments until I got all the key points where I wanted them. Good Luck

[Donn Hewes]

As Carl suggests hames must fit the collar. There are some adjustments that can be used to effect the shape of the collar or ensure the proper point of draft (the point where the tugs take off from the hames in relation to the horses shoulder). While adjusting the upper or lower hames straps can effect all these things the hames still need to be the right size for the collar. If the different horses you are working with use collars that are two inches different, the hames may fit both collars if the upper hames strap holder starts out in the upper notch and you lower it to the lowest notch for the smaller collar)

For this reason most horses don’t share their collar or harness with another horse; as adjusting these things is just too much trouble. With each adjustment you risk messing up the collar shape or point of draft. good luck. donn

[Donn Hewes]

the Hydraulics are really pretty simple. Some of the motors for PTO carts have two output shafts, front and back. In that set up the motor can be centered and the rear facing shaft can have clutch set up bolted on. The forward shaft would either go directly to the Hydraulic pump mounted right in front of the motor or be belt driven to a pump mounted just left or right of center. in most cases there is no one / off or engage mechanism. You just have hydraulics when ever the motor is running. Be careful to size the reservoir big enough form the types of farm equipment you want to use. I started with out enough reservoir and seized up a pump when all the fluid went out to the ram.

They often use a reservoir with a pump inside. This would be a good design as it protects the pump from running out of fluid and helps keep cool. There are also common to mount a pump on top of the reservoir but this is where I ran into problems. I added a large filler pipe that stands up above the pump and keeps the pump supplied. I guess the problem was a tiny leak and the pump should run fine but above the reservoir it wouldn’t hold a vacuum to lift the fluid that short distance; that is why I like the pump in the reservoir. After that it would be pretty easy to go to the local tractor place (or on line) for levers, control blocks, and hoses. be sure to put in enough levers and outlets to match the equipment you want to run.

I have foot pedals for Hyd levers and I like them, but I think my builder put them together and I haven’t seen them on other carts. Good luck. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Ed, I hope you don’t mind, but I will make a couple of suggestions about the curb chain even though you may already know all this. Others might find it useful. With that bit, (It looks like it fits fine) you get leverage when you move the lines attachment point down further on the shanks. The first slot is the least amount of added leverage and the third is the most. In order to use any of the positions except the neutral one (if you attach lines where your over check is now there is no leverage effect) you will need the curb chain properly hung under the horses chin. With out it the bridle lifts and the bit pulls down with out rotating as it is intended. The metal hook in the picture should be below the bridle cheek piece instead of above it. With the bit in the horses mouth take the chain and twists it until it is flat (the links nest with each other) then hook while pulling the slack out. The length of the hook will give the right amount of release. These chains should be tight enough to slip a couple fingers under, but not looser. Too loose and they reach the soft flesh under the lip; not what we want. I like to take the bridle on and off with the chain in place and squeeze the hook to keep it closed. Many folks don’t like the extra finger to get the chain under the chin while putting the bit in the mouth. In either case don’t use the bit in a levered position with out the chain properly hooked. I hope this helps. donn

[Donn Hewes]

Hi all, More than one way to skin a cat as they say. I have trimmed my own horses for along time, and yes; you do need some help from someone with experience in learning this skill. The basics of managing the animal and the tools while recognizing what you are aiming to achieve is quiet a lot to start with. Over the last ten years I have certainly continued to learn and improve my skills.

My horses and mules have never been shod for several reasons; not the least of which is I have never acquired the skill. For my farm purposes it is almost never necessary with the possible exception of a few icy days when I might like to use horses but skip it because they need traction. I also like keeping my horses in a loose herd and I am unclear as to how well the corks would work in that situation, and on rubber mates.

As far as tied vs. stocks I would say I can see benefits to both answers. Like George, any of my animals (except weanlings – but they will learn!) can be trimmed while standing in the center of a paddock, unrestrained; but I typically tie them by the halter to a wall. the rest of my animals are loose, so tying one up does help make my job easier. The point about trimming unrestrained for me is not really about hoof care, but rather this is one of my measures of how well an animal responds to me and when the are ready for other challenges.

I think this relates to Peyton’s question because often untieing a horse helps us see how we contribute to it’s moving or staying still. This is where I begin to teach new teamsters how their voices, movements, and touches can teach or make an animal stay still while our actions can also lead to unwanted moves from the animal. When an animal is loose we find that it is not really just them moving; it is what we do that they are responding to. this is incredibly valuable and not really about trimming. When someone goes out to hook to a log for the first time and the horse is moving every few seconds, I explain that you are now distracted by the log, the chain, the harness, and the lines. You need to channel the moment in the paddock when you found out that you could lead this animal to be still while you moved. With all the distractions, you still need to manage your animal.

Honestly, the great thing about stocks would be saving me from a back ache. I am tall and approaching the point in life where you realize you physically will not last for ever. Trimming good horses that way a ton does make my back ache. A better hoof stand would help. (I have a home made one) I can see the value in stocks and certainly have nothing against them. A horse that is not calm and relaxed at your direction will not be much more fun to trim in stocks than they would tied to a wall.

[Donn Hewes]

a running gear would distribute the load well, but at the expense of extra weight. Alos when hooked to some equipment this would be difficult to back up. It could even be difficult to back up to hook on to something. Just something to consider. My cart doesn’t back up well, and doesn’t back up with a baler hardly at all. Most all the new carts are two wheeled; except some of the very largest. I think they do this for two reasons, when they build with one axle they are lowering their cost of steel and parts. They have gone so far to include moving axles to keep it balanced, and extra hitch attachments to distribute the load to the equipment being towed. Just hings to think of. If I was setting out to make one today I would make a two wheeled one, and just try hard to get it balanced right. They also often use a handy clutch now that bolts right to the output shaft of the motor. i am not sure were these come from or what they cost, but they replace all the belts and pulleys. Belts and pulleys have worked fine for me. An Amish man, Henry Stolzfus, did a great job with a pivot that engaged and disengaged the PTO, by tightening the belt.

[Donn Hewes]

It has been a few years since I hooked up to that round baler, but I don’t think it would be hard to pull or operate. If you look around you will also find some folks have rigged up some pretty nice setups for moving one or several round bales with horses.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Anton, I am not sure who else will answer, but I will give you my two cents. I personally don’t attribute a great difference between the horses and the mules. Certainly if they are a little lighter you might find you use a little less hay over the course of a year. As for more careful with their feet or less likely to bolt, or waiting for a beginning teamster, I would not start out attributing these things to any one breed. For the simple reason that they can be found in any breed and also lost just as easily. If you identify horses well trained for work as your top priority, I would stick with that, and look for animals that already demonstrate the ability to work calmly and patiently for a calm and patient teamster. This can be found in any breed of horse, but is no guarantee in any horse or mule. Good luck and let me know what you find. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

It is all ways a challenge to get two individuals work together. Some take to it easier than others, and it is often one of the reasons we see many animals working with the same partner on the same side for many years. I think horses with remarkably different bodies, head carriage, and attitudes can be especially hard. Ultimately I think it is as described above; getting and maintaining communication with both animals simultaneously. If you look at the thread “matching the unmatched team” you can see some of the things I have done that bring these horses closer together. Once they are closer together I have found it is easier to use my hands / line skills to have them responding equally to my directions as I want.

In the one horse in front, one in back situation (very common I think) we often assume one is eager to work and the other is not. Usually I think trying to get away from each other (keep an eye on you) is a better description of what is going on. Working the animals single will usually demonstrate that both are willing to work. This is why I work to get them comfortable and “in the right ball park”, now they can learn to work side by side.

I used the buck back a few times several years ago. I came to see it as only a tool that helped prevent a runaway, not really a tool to teach driving to a horse. As a safety feature intended to prevent runaways it had several draw backs. It was depending on the other horse to respond in a certain way, it depended some what on how heavy the implement used was. I can’y say I would never use one again; just not sure when.

As with most things, there is always more than one way to see something. Buck backs and systems very similar are or were often used to drive many of the horses in a large hitch. i just like to remind myself of all the history of our craft.

[Donn Hewes]

Man look at Bob go! Makes you want to get some mules and go baling; doesn’t it? That cart is a one off, built mostly in Romulus, NY, by Henry Stoltfuz. I think it is comparable to many gas powered PTO carts on the market. It has a 24 hp honda engine. I know that round balers vary a lot as to power required, so I would check that carefully, but with the right baler pulling it with horses and powering it with a PTO cart wouldn’t be difficult. I really don’t know how many horses you would need to pull a baler like that. In the picture we would have used four because the cart, tongue, eveners and neck yokes are all set up for four, and might take a hour to change. Three horses might be ideal for moderate hills, and two big horses might do fine on flatter ground.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Stephen, You might not be getting exactly what you hoped for but a lot of good comments, none the less. I am not a professional market garden person myself, but we are doing a little cultivating each year.

As usual, Carl takes us beyond our first response. Obviously if I am only going to cultivate for one or two days a year, and I will be looking between my legs trying to figure out which pedal is which, I will want my quietest slowest horse. But now fast forward a couple years to when we have increased the acreage, and our skill as a teamster and with the tool; it is hot and there is still two acres to go. You will want a horse with a little more eagerness.

I don’t think size is the key, although I suppose someone could make a case for a certain size matching a certain size of operation. Finally I think good cultivating horses will come from careful study of the animal and task, and dedicated leadership to show them what we want.

[Donn Hewes]

One edit and now it is gone. Donn They think too highly of me!

[Donn Hewes]

“makes me want to talk to these men” Carl, that is exactly what I was thinking. I am not sure we would come back. donn

[Donn Hewes]

hi Carl, I would guess that pole was jointed. What do you think? These old photos are fun to look at. You can really strain your eyes trying to figure out just what is there. Rear yoke is up off the pole. It almost looks like two different tongues. That doesn’t make any sense. Unless the rear team is connected to the low pole with a bit of chain or something? great photos!

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