[J-L]

Thanks for the heads up Geoff. I’m sitting here reading this, drinking a glass of milk from my cow (good stuff). She just calved a week ago and we’ve been on the milk for about three days or so. I grew up on raw milk (also drank from the creek a lot during haying season:eek:), and never have had allergies or asthma.
I’ve been perusing the information on raw milk many folks have posted here and other places and am happy to have my family on raw milk now.
I knew a fellow who claimed a person’s health was greatly benefited by growing and eating his food from the very soil where that person lives. This includes not only vegetables, but meat and dairy as well. This is the way my grandmothers did it and one lived to 96 (worked until age 85) and the other is 98 and still going. Might be something to that.

[J-L]

Don’t wait too long for ‘someday’ Ronnie. Get it done for sure. Much as I like many of the video’s you see, darn few are about real work. I like the few that get right down to the nut cuttin’, so to speak.
I won’t name any of the video’s but a good deal of them are spending so much time on the harnessing or the ‘I love my horse because…’, or most commonly the ‘old timey’ angle. Good, solid, nuts and bolts video about getting it done.

[J-L]

I use mostly auto steer wagons on the ranch. Nearly every day. When going through rough ground they don’t hurt the necks. I run a fairly long feed trail daily and over the frozen cow turds, rocks, and ditches. It can do a lot of jolting and jiggling, never sored a neck with a neck yoke. Ronnie is right that they don’t quite turn as sharp, but mine will turn to the edge of the bed.
With the one fifth wheel I have you can see how it could make something sore in real rough going with a neck yoke on it. I take this on a trip into the mountains in some rough ground but it’s only about 5 miles in and not enough to hurt anyone.

[J-L]

I agree with Dave. Your mule has to mind you but you need to not cross the line and make him scared of you. Timing is everything on discipline, but you have to have it.
As far as the bit goes, just keep working him in it. I do exercises on my saddle horses and mules where I pressure and release. When they give to the bit, let the pressure off. They can learn it like a horse, just takes a while longer on some of them. I don’t like to let them brace up and take the bit away from me and like I’ve said before, having soft hands means being as hard as you have to be to get results and not more.
With a mule that’s a little barn sour I like to do lots of half halts and one rein stops and things like that on the way back to the corral. You can turn all that energy into some good training and kill two birds with one stone. It’s the same thing I do with horses.

[J-L]

Looks good. I’ll bet those are some of the nicest mules around. I’d love to go down and give him a hand. I have some good and well broke mules but looks to me like I could learn a bunch from that man.
Good way to forward logs it looks to me like. No need for an expensive tractor or forwarder.
I’m sure you could use about any wagon. I use a couple of the newer wagons and just mount wood tongues on them. One is a John Deere and one is a newer Kory (sp?) made wagon. One is a 3 ton and one is a 5 ton.
Thanks for putting that up Scott.

[J-L]

I think you’re on the right track with the co-op idea. That would be the only way to make it work. Network of smaller producers that would raise a similar kind of product. The year around availability is a problem for sure.
I have looked into the cow model that will work for a grass fat. They are a smaller framed, fleshy angus cow (some good red angus too). I have been breeding quite a little of that type from a fellow by the name of Tim Ohlde. He actually has been working in other countries with his genetics to make grass fed cattle work. My problem here is altitude. We run into pulmonary problems with many angus bloodlines. It starts showing up at 6000′ or so and we run from 7000′ up. Still there have been bulls that I can and do use.

Funny you ask about the heifers starting. I gathered 15 head and put in the field by the barn and will probably start night checks in the next few days. Ugh! They’re not really due until around the 10th but the low birthweight bulls only cook in the mama about 265 days many times. I feel the sleep deprivation setting in already.
My cows are due around the 25th of March. That’s about as far back into winter as I want to calve here. We freeze enough calves at that time and lose some ears and tails even into April quite a ways.

Never took any offense at your post and I do like to hear other ideas on all this. It will take different perspectives to tackle many of the problems we are going to be faced with. Never hurts to have a different angle. I agree that the info is lacking in that report.

[J-L]

Interesting topic. It’s really a tough one for me to mull over. Being in the cattle business it hit’s home that there is not an easy way to look at this. I’ve been looking into putting a toe in the water with some organic, grass fed beef. It’s still a small niche for most producers.
Problems for us in the mountain west;

1) Slaughter capabilities for small to medium size herds.
2) Getting that product to the masses.
3) Marketing that beef for a premium in a recession.

Like it or not, the guys who buy my two semi loads of calves are hanging it out in the wind just as much as me, maybe more. I don’t know if I want to incur their risk along with what I already have.
I also look at many places that cattle are raised in the west and don’t see the type of feed necessary to make a good grass fat carcass. I do think I could graze on alfalfa for a couple weeks prior to slaughter and help that aspect of things. That’s feasible.
Still, how many can I market and have processed locally? About 10 head working with local butchers. Sure ain’t going to make a living on that. Shipping them down to Smith’s might be an option (close to SLC) if they could fit it in.
I also wonder how far reaching it would be (if feed lots were eliminated) in regards to grain markets and many farms not matter what the size? That’s a vast amount of grain that we are talking about.
So far I have been using this as a way to market my late calves the following summer for a bit of a premium. Can’t see it changing that much in the near future.
Every way I look at the situation just raises more questions for me.

P.S. Sounds like a very half-assed study you told us about, I have to agree.

[J-L]

Gotta love it! I just pulled a Dodge cummins and a 16′ horse trailer out of the snow the other day with 3 head. Not nearly as impressive as that semi and tanks. Holy cow!

[J-L]

The mules are looking real good Dave. Neat pair for sure and it looks like you guys have them coming along fine.

[J-L]

I also wanted to add that this is the only job I have. It’s more than enough job at times, then there are some slack times that make up for it. I love most that I spend a great deal of time with my kids. I know that I have opportunity that most will never have, the ranch that has been in the family and hopefully will be in the future.
I’d hate to have to follow some of you folks around as well, in the logging woods and mountains, and on the farms and market gardens, etc. Lot’s of hard working people around the country.
My hat is off to those of you working day jobs with farms/gardens/animals on the side. Have to love it to do that.

[J-L]

George, I use two teams most of the time. One team could handle it if I weren’t so scattered out. But by the time I get to the farthest stackyard and back it’s probably at least 7 miles around everything.
I have a team of 3 abreast that feeds one herd that’s about 3 miles from my barn to that stackyard. Those are getting round bales right now. 3 bales one day and 4 the next. They are around 1100-1200 lb bales. I use the team to snatch the bales off of the stack and then stab my spear through the bale and roll it out into the field to feed 160 cows there.
The other team is home on the bobsled or wagon and I’ve been feeding primarily little square bales to this herd of 100 head. They get 30-35 bales depending on weather. This little team also feeds the weaner calves (50 head in there). I do load a round bale on the sleigh every now and again to make my little bales last. I had to dip into the little square bales for a while before I moved the bigger herd of cows and a stack goes fast when you’re feeding 100-125 bales a day out of it. Some years I feed more square bales than round anyway and it takes around 3 or 4 sleigh loads if I just put a ton or so on the rack. With the big sleigh I can do it in fewer trips. So even if it means hooking 4 head to it that’ll make things quicker.
It’s not as bad as it sounds, Geoff. That little girl did NOT want to go to the sitter today. Wanted to go with her dad.
I sure love to do it, even on the nasty days. Usually I’ll leave the barn after chores, say 8:00 or so and get back for lunch by 2:00. Some days go longer, but that’s about what it’s like.
I’m going to have to swap out on my 3 abreast team and give the big Percheron gelding a break, he’s getting a little thin and worked down. I’ve got another pair of belgian mules that will get worked in and give a break to the other three. Also need to harden them up for spring work anyway.
Kari, we’ll get that round bale rig built one of these years. I think we have the concept and you’ve got a good design in mind, I just need some more $$$ like everyone else in this business.
Wow that was long winded.

[J-L]

It’s not as common as it used to be George. There are still some of us around the valley and over to Evanston that do it. Many ranchers are older now and don’t have the energy or drive to hook up.
The savings are substantial. For instance, yesterday is the first day I’ve fed with the tractor all winter. I had my 3 yr old with me (a little sick with a cold) and I didn’t think she’d stand up to 4 hours on the sleigh and forecart at 10 above.
I burned 1/2 tank of fuel, 10 gallons. I broke one hydraulic hose which will cost me around $75 to replace. Lost around 2 gallons of fluid. Had to cold start my tractor with ether, which I don’t like to do. Didn’t enjoy it at all.
Really the time savings were small, maybe 1/2 hour less time with the tractor, but with a cab around my little girl it was worth it.
Even without the cost of the breakdowns you’re looking at $35. If I had to plug that tractor in daily and run it around to feed I’m sure we’d be looking at $40 (don’t know for sure). Take that times 150-180 days and it comes to $6000-$7200 in fuel and electricity. Not taking into account maintenance and breakdowns. Pretty spendy.
My tractors and pickups spend the winter doing nothing and not racking up hours and miles. That is a plus. My brother, on his side of the ranch, is feeding with a tractor and bale processor and has worn out a newer tractor than mine in the last 8 years.
I’d like something a little more high tech for feeding the round bales, but what I have works and is cheap. My square baler set up still works and I put some of both up. The square bales are nice to have. I will feed around 7000 of them this year.

[J-L]

Charlie, I normally tie a knot in the end and hang it on the dally pole and wrap them with just a bit of slack in them when the team is walking the feedgrounds and me feeding hay.
Here is a picture that kind of shows it (on my small sleigh). Just enough slack that I can move the team ahead by voice while pitching hay or for the team to move around the feed ground while I feed square bales. In this picture I’m pitching a round bale off before I go get a ton of square bales. For that I just pitch a bit and talk the team ahead a ways and pitch more.

[J-L]

Good luck with the horses and the sled. There is so much useful information exchanged here that I’m sure you’ll like it.
Are you building a work sled? Lets have some more details.

[J-L]

Too true. It is an uphill battle for smaller interests vs. the huge corporations (or the popular press).
I sure wouldn’t be chained naked to the milkbarn door for a few more months here either. Cold and windy today.

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