[jac]

Marshall I dont know if the Clyde boys do it over there but here in the UK they square the toe and let the quarters grow out allmost flat !!. the hinds are worse. the inside gets shaved off and the outside quarter is grown the same as the front !! All this so the horse stands and walks with his hocks touching?? Any time I have been behind a horse on a heavy pull his hind leg makes a pretty straight line from the point of hip thru the hock and down to the foot..If those show horses throw a shoe I recon the foot breaks up in less than an hour.. certainly no use for work.. the Feb picture on the draft horse callender is a great example of the show shoe.. Tremendous team though..
John

[jac]

I recon this could turn into an awwsome thread.. For what its worth the big guys that are doing the min-till are finding problems with continually incorporating chopped straw into the top few inches and a lot are reverting back to the plough at least every 3 or 4 years.. I know this is not quite the same as whether to compost or not but some of the issues are related to breaking the straw down and tying up nutrients during the breaking down stage. I suppose there will allways be a balance to find in all dealings with nature…
John

[jac]

CPL is chronic progressive lymphadema. Its very common in Clydes Shires and I think your Western Belgians have it.. I have done a lot of reading on it and it is the same thing known as greasy heel and scratches can be mistaken for the early stages. Swellings round the pasterns and foot stamping are the main symtoms, then in latter stages the greesy heel starts. My vet thinks its a lack of elasticity in the lower leg which prevents the lymphatic fluid from draining.. this was my thoughts behind the trim idea. Im sticking with the barefoot trim because it works for my horses. I hate the big flared feet we have over here as well.. the leaverage forces going on in the foot must be horrific!!..on the few occassions I take horses to a show I allways get told my horses feet are too small.. I just smile sweetly now and dont even bother trying to explain now…. Thanks for the imput guys.
John

[jac]

Excellent Carl..Id forgot all about the homoginisation thing. Its like dl said.. we dont have a big powerfull milk lobby, all the laws on the planet wont stop me pouring real milk into my coffee….
John

[jac]

I cant help wondering if the food addatives that have been added to food for the last 100 years isnt partly to blame for the rise in cancers ?? The microwave is another bit of modern technology that i cant bring myself to trust. The big supermarkets couldnt operate without food addatives and preservatives either but I read somewhere that a human body takes longer to decompose now than it did 100 years ago and thats been put down to a lifetime residual build up of preservatives !!!… I find it hard to think that nature can create a condition that makes raw milk or other unproccessed foods disagree with the body…
John

[jac]

Totaly agree Mitch… sad thing is the big boys are on the same tread mill. Difference is they have to do it to pay the bank/finance company and I just dont think they get the same fun out of it … but what am saying… big ag doesnt do it for any fun !
John

[jac]

Hey its great youre at that stage. I have thought along those lines too but have it narrowed down to shifting round bales and driving the hay chopper… oh and snowboading in winter!! but am going to try the horses in that role as well. good luck…
John

[jac]

Good point.. so mabey the horses have something to do with it after all:)…
John

[jac]

I see where your at but it does seem odd that a product that is a known killer is legal but the governments on both sides of the puddle oulaw raw milk ??? you should really give the raw milk a try btw, the flavour is totally better . providing the herd is tb and bruselocis tested there is no health risk. Spotless containers is the secret with milk..I fear that a survey might come down on the wrong side for raw milk because of the alienation towards unproccessed food created by the advertisings of the big food companies…
John

[jac]

Seems to be a case of the big guys winning again. I certainly like fresh cooled milk straight from the tank..
John

[jac]

So when did our system change ?? I can remember when I was younger when we would go to a neighbor and help with hay if we were done and they wernt and i well remember the tomfoolery at clipping time when the neighbors decended on our farm.. Mitch you are right .. it isnt about the money or even the horses. I notice it now.. not a lot of neighborly help anymore and sometimes i detect that its almost got to the stage of glorying in other peoples misfortune.. Erika that keynote speech sounds as if it was very inspiring. I take it David Klein is a leading member of his community ?..
John

[jac]

I hate to admit it but Marshall and JL have a point. Perhaps the days of the small family farm are doomed.. but then I keep comming back to the Amish model and how their business seems to thrive. I recon if we want the small farm ideal we need to shift the goal posts. When I was in England one of the staff from the land agency that was involved in the running of the farm overheard me talk of the Amish and butted in saying that they are crazy with the way they work and how stupid it was to have a new baler with iron wheels !!! and I fired back by saying “like we in the normal world arnt crazy by forbidding the sale of raw milk but allowing the sale of cigarettes !… that didnt go down too well…
John

[jac]

Over the years Ive noticed that “easy” money nearly always isnt stable and the bubble bursts. In the early days of “IT” computer programmers were in big demand.. over here a lot cant get work now and the rates they get paid have crashed.. When I left to drive that combine everyone said “you wont get paid as much”.. sure I was on £14/hr if I drove an excavator but I had to drive 1 an half hour each way to get to most sites..some further.. and only paid 8 hrs as they dont pay travel time and whats more I hated the job.. the combine paid £12/hr and I lived next to it and worked 16hrs some days !! ended up better off and more importantly I enjoyed the job.. Excavator drivers are 10 a penny, but try and find a relief milker or shepherd or someone that knows how to set a combine/baler/plow/seeder or most of the jobs in farming and it starts to get hard. I have a sneaky feeling if a 2000 acre farm was offered in 100 acre parcels, the demand would outstrip supply..
John

[jac]

The combine was set for imperial measures. I realise some of these figures may seem high but bear in mind that the eastern side and parts of Scotland can do can do nearer 4tons.. But their imput costs are horrendous. The 375 hp tractor on the seeder must be close on £100,000 the combine is £200,000 and if the single farm payment is taken out then these guys would struggle to break even !!! I agree totally on the fact its wrong that country people are being displaced from the country side and being replaced by folk who complain when a silage squad works late to beat the weather or the smell when the calf boxes are emptied but what is it going to take to make it right ?? I fear that if agriculture falls into enough of a decline to scare away the big boys then there might not be enough people left with the skills to take on the land.. the average age of farmers in the UK is already 58 i think.. that doesnt bode well for the future…
John

[jac]

This is interesting.. I have wrongly assumed it was the weight of the tractors causing the pan.. or at least the pan Im thinking of. I take it plowing deep now and then, for potatos example,would help. I had wondered if land cress would be any use as a cover crop. Thick coverage and easy to incorperate ?..
John

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