big arable

[jac]

Hi people.. Im fresh back from my trip to Oxfordshire for the harvest. What an eye opener … 2000 acres with one combine. I cut winter and spring barley, wheat, oil seed rape, peas and linseed. The figures are awsome. 45 tons/hour in wheat and using between 12 and 18 gallons an hour !!. The land was funny stuff, chalky flint with very little organic matter. No cattle for at least 20 years and all done with liquid fertiliser. Big users of Monsantos round up. Min till is the way the cultivations are done ??. I seem to remember a discussion on this forum regards how straw being broken down in the soil ties up nitrogen during the proccess.. Are they doing 2 steps forward and 1 back with this min till idea ??.. The farm is yield mapped and used to put fertiliser on at exactly where its needed. This year the drill has the same system with variable seed rates. Tractors and combine are all satelite steered which I have to admit was pretty cool. Its hard to keep a 30′ header on the mark but this system means you never run with a single inch of empty header.. the cultivator,seeder and rollers are all the same. Sounds great. But i still know deep down it isnt sustainable and does no good to the local community. 4 men involved in harvesting 2000 acres !! £30000 for fuel alone and the manager recons it take just over £200 an acre to establish a crop of wheat ?? My nephew is staying on for a couple of weeks to do the autumn cultivations and kept the camera so I will post fotos on his return..
John

[near horse]

Hi John,

I compare the practices you describe (and those seen here in my area of wheat farming) as similar to “hydroponics” if you remember that term. Growing plants in a sterile medium and add specified liquid nutrients as needed. No organic matter necessary – or any other soil/life …. In the conventional farming sense, the depleted soil is the planting medium – kind of seems stupid that we want to “conserve” it from eroding when it’s been wrecked. One can hardly call it soil.

BTW- What kind of yields (per acre or hectare) were you getting – say with wheat?

[jac]

Hi Geoff.. I do remember the hydroponic idea. They tried to market it over here to the horse world as the savior for those with no grass !!.. As for yields, I was surprised at just how average they were. Wheat ran at roughly between 3.2 and 3.8 tons/acre.. That was on the combine moniter. The manager reconed that was normal and he was happy enuf. I suppose compared to some areas of the world they are high but I can remember talking with Bivol on this forum and he told me of a small farmer in his part of the world that was getting 6 tons/acre!!… At the above yields and with milling wheat at £170/ ton they dont have a huge margin and no room for errors. It was interesting to hear the manager say that the yields hadnt went up by any great ammount in 20 years.. the only change was the manpower had been slashed..
John

[mitchmaine]

so what you are saying john is the only economic advantage to your model, or profit for investors, is by putting people out of work.

take the same 2000 acres and turn it over to 20 farmers. the fertility may actually improve and the same money would sustain twenty families and their help.

same thing happened here in the woods. and the only thing we have to show is clearcuts the size of connecticut. but two guys did it and lots of money was made by someone else who didn’t work. hmmmm………………

glad to have you back.
mitch

[jac]

Mitch that is exactly what I mean unfortunatly.. a few folks getting the real benefits. Investors are destroying the land and the country infrastructure in the name of pure profit.. they miss the bigger picture by chasing the £$£$. I look at farming as having to jump a few fences to get to where you want to be.. this lot on the other hand use the biggest machines and drive out the people.. Thing that bothers me is this… is land ever again going to be in such decline that the Mr Bigs dont see it as a good “investment” and they give us small guys a chance ???.. The farmer I worked for when I first left home once told me that his dad got the chance to take on a farm rent free for three years to try and make a go of it during the real depression of the 30s. He never looked back and his grandchildren now farm 3 farms..
John

[Rick Alger]

Amen.

The woods are being converted to trophy parcels that will never be cut again in similar fashion to farmland.

[near horse]

@mitchmaine 20863 wrote:

so what you are saying john is the only economic advantage to your model, or profit for investors, is by putting people out of work.

take the same 2000 acres and turn it over to 20 farmers. the fertility may actually improve and the same money would sustain twenty families and their help.

mitch

Hi Mitch –

You’ve exposed the soft underbelly of our economy. It’s called “Unearned Income”. Think about what we’re saying with that term- “you did not earn this money, someone else did the work but we’re giving it to you – or most of it.” And BTW – “we’re also putting your neighbors out of work, so you might want to start complaining about being taxed to help out those you’ve put out of work.” Regardless of how we feel about taxes and the govt etc – putting people out of work is wrong period. And, as for the guys manufacturing the BIG $$$ equipment – they could just as easily be making stuff for small farms …

@jac 20862 wrote:

As for yields, I was surprised at just how average they were. Wheat ran at roughly between 3.2 and 3.8 tons/acre.. That was on the combine moniter. I can remember talking with Bivol on this forum and he told me of a small farmer in his part of the world that was getting 6 tons/acre!!… At the above yields and with milling wheat at £170/
John

Holy cow – 3T/ac is 100 bushels (@60#) – that’s a great yield here (dryland farming w/ no irrigation). Especially with $6/bu wheat this yr.

[Tim Harrigan]

near horse;20880 wrote:

Holy cow – 3T/ac is 100 bushels (@60#) – that’s a great yield here (dryland farming w/ no irrigation). Especially with $6/bu wheat this yr.

John, is that metric tons? 110 bu/acre then at 3T.

[jac]

The combine was set for imperial measures. I realise some of these figures may seem high but bear in mind that the eastern side and parts of Scotland can do can do nearer 4tons.. But their imput costs are horrendous. The 375 hp tractor on the seeder must be close on £100,000 the combine is £200,000 and if the single farm payment is taken out then these guys would struggle to break even !!! I agree totally on the fact its wrong that country people are being displaced from the country side and being replaced by folk who complain when a silage squad works late to beat the weather or the smell when the calf boxes are emptied but what is it going to take to make it right ?? I fear that if agriculture falls into enough of a decline to scare away the big boys then there might not be enough people left with the skills to take on the land.. the average age of farmers in the UK is already 58 i think.. that doesnt bode well for the future…
John

[near horse]

@jac 20882 wrote:

The combine was set for imperial measures. I realise some of these figures may seem high but bear in mind that the eastern side and parts of Scotland can do can do nearer 4tons.. But their imput costs are horrendous. The 375 hp tractor on the seeder must be close on £100,000 the combine is £200,000 and if the single farm payment is taken out then these guys would struggle to break even !!! I agree totally on the fact its wrong that country people are being displaced from the country side and being replaced by folk who complain when a silage squad works late to beat the weather or the smell when the calf boxes are emptied but what is it going to take to make it right ?? I fear that if agriculture falls into enough of a decline to scare away the big boys then there might not be enough people left with the skills to take on the land.. the average age of farmers in the UK is already 58 i think.. that doesnt bode well for the future…
John

Hard to imagine US big ag will ever go under – w/ subsidies and all. PLUS the big farms are like the drug addicts w/ Conagra/Monsanto etc as the dealers. Dealers need addicts!

[J-L]

I’m thinking it would be hard to find 20 people who want to work hard for the small return on 100 acres of farmland. This day and age most make a fairly high wage withouth getting any blisters on their hands or feet.

[mitchmaine]

hey j-l,
there is a lot of college kids around here, trying to get all the blisters they can and five acres to boot. don’t know what it means other than college didn’t do it for them and they are looking for something different, real or whatever. may not last but they are here.
lots of easier ways to make money, so maybe thats not what they are after. who knows,

mitch

[jac]

Over the years Ive noticed that “easy” money nearly always isnt stable and the bubble bursts. In the early days of “IT” computer programmers were in big demand.. over here a lot cant get work now and the rates they get paid have crashed.. When I left to drive that combine everyone said “you wont get paid as much”.. sure I was on £14/hr if I drove an excavator but I had to drive 1 an half hour each way to get to most sites..some further.. and only paid 8 hrs as they dont pay travel time and whats more I hated the job.. the combine paid £12/hr and I lived next to it and worked 16hrs some days !! ended up better off and more importantly I enjoyed the job.. Excavator drivers are 10 a penny, but try and find a relief milker or shepherd or someone that knows how to set a combine/baler/plow/seeder or most of the jobs in farming and it starts to get hard. I have a sneaky feeling if a 2000 acre farm was offered in 100 acre parcels, the demand would outstrip supply..
John

[Marshall]

It’s good to hear from you John. I was wondering how thing were going. It sound like agriculture is the same all around the world. There is one area farmer that was all excited when he reached 10,000 acres. I wouldn’t want the headaches. I called around on prices for planting wheat this fall. The average was almost $100 per acre and then there is still the urea in the spring. I am going to plant some hay and a little corn and oats for feed. Sad to say but I can make more money renting it out. Now the local grain elevator won’t even take oats. I hate to go that route but if things go to he!! in a hand car I still have all of the equipment so I can jump back in.

[J-L]

To me there is a major difference in the 5 acre house sight that many want, and an actual 100 acre farm. 100 acres can be a lot of work. Depending on where it is and what it can and will produce, it may not make a whole lot more than paying expenses.
Of course there are regional differences. There are still a good amount of jobs around here. Most of the fellows I know envy what I’m doing…until they spend a few days stacking hay or days on end out in the blizzards and wind. Or especially when I talk of trading them pay checks.

[Author]

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