big arable

[jac]

I hate to admit it but Marshall and JL have a point. Perhaps the days of the small family farm are doomed.. but then I keep comming back to the Amish model and how their business seems to thrive. I recon if we want the small farm ideal we need to shift the goal posts. When I was in England one of the staff from the land agency that was involved in the running of the farm overheard me talk of the Amish and butted in saying that they are crazy with the way they work and how stupid it was to have a new baler with iron wheels !!! and I fired back by saying “like we in the normal world arnt crazy by forbidding the sale of raw milk but allowing the sale of cigarettes !… that didnt go down too well…
John

[near horse]

@J-L 20894 wrote:

I’m thinking it would be hard to find 20 people who want to work hard for the small return on 100 acres of farmland. This day and age most make a fairly high wage withouth getting any blisters on their hands or feet.

Then they go and get blisters “power walking” and playing golf.

[mitchmaine]

hi john, you bring up a good point. I have known a few amish and for a long while, and I also have never talked economics(money) with them. But simple observation tells me there are fundamental differences between us. simply said, success for them is when everyone in the community succeeds. When something needs doing, everyone in their family pitches in. or everyone in the church district pitches in. your barn burns down, and you have a new one in a week. Someone in the community gets sick and they go to the hospital with no health insurance plan. Ten acres of oats gets shocked faster than you bind it. It doesn’t seen to be about the money.
We, on the other hand, can only find success at someone elses failure. We are taught to compete with our community. When we have more tractors or more land and money, we win. But it requires someone else to lose, and that’s where I can’t see us using amish practices successfully because it isn’t about the horses. That’s what I come up with. Others might feel different about it.
It might also sound like I favor one method over the other, but I don’t. I just don’t think they mix well.

mitch

[dlskidmore]

@near horse 20880 wrote:

You’ve exposed the soft underbelly of our economy. It’s called “Unearned Income”.

Although I agree that it is better to work with your hands, not all unearned income is bad. Many of us have had to rely on lenders to purchase land or equipment, and stock trading is basically high-risk lending to businesses. I have no problem with the person who takes the money he earned with his hands and invests it in another person’s work, or who gives it to someone who has not earned it. Now excessive taking of that credit line or charity can do you harm, but it does have it’s place.

@mitchmaine 20895 wrote:

there is a lot of college kids around here, trying to get all the blisters they can and five acres to boot. don’t know what it means other than college didn’t do it for them and they are looking for something different, real or whatever. may not last but they are here.
lots of easier ways to make money, so maybe thats not what they are after. who knows

You might lump me in that category. I’m doing well on my technical career track, but I’d really rather have a job where I can keep my children with me. (I have none yet because I don’t want a daycare to raise them.) I considered shopkeeping and other city businesses, but in the end I decided it was best for my health and for the development of future children to have a more physical job outdoors. It’s definitely not about the money for me, the money is what’s holding me back from doing it immediately.

5 acres doesn’t sound like much though, I’m mostly looking at the 20-40 acre range, enough to do a decent amount of grass fed livestock in addition to the more intensive market garden.

[dominiquer60]

great observations Mitch,

I don’t know if you got to witness the keynote, David Klein, at last years NEAPFD, but he had three points that he taught young couples in his Ohio community.

First was in order to farm well and keep your children interested it has to be a successful farm of manageable size and diversity.

Second was to set aside some time to relax with the family and enjoy each other every week, for David’s family it is Saturday late afternoon/evening, they get chores done early and have family time.

The third and very important advice that he had for young couples is to be on time for meals, and if you are going to be late let her know. This point may have even involved a firm shake of his finger to stress the importance of this one 🙂

It was great advice and something to consider for all of our farms Amish or not.

Erika

[jac]

So when did our system change ?? I can remember when I was younger when we would go to a neighbor and help with hay if we were done and they wernt and i well remember the tomfoolery at clipping time when the neighbors decended on our farm.. Mitch you are right .. it isnt about the money or even the horses. I notice it now.. not a lot of neighborly help anymore and sometimes i detect that its almost got to the stage of glorying in other peoples misfortune.. Erika that keynote speech sounds as if it was very inspiring. I take it David Klein is a leading member of his community ?..
John

[J-L]

I’d like to have heard that speech. I need to remember those words of wisdom. Many times we are too ‘busy’ to take that evening and relax a little bit and that may be a mistake. My folks seldom let us do that and it may have pushed one or two siblings away from the ranch. It doesn’t have to be work, work, work day in, day out. We (my family of six) take our supper together whenever possible. We can all see the importance of that. The conversations with our children just flow naturally at meal time.
John, I too remember when neighbors worked together. We did our haying with my Uncle and his boys back in the day. Everyone seems on guard and so involved in their own little world now. Life is faster, unfortunately.
The “bottom line” for my little ranch is not about money. It is a great way to raise my kids. As long as we can pay our bills and have enough to eat it is a success. Probably like many small farms or ranches nowaday.

[dlskidmore]

@jac 20912 wrote:

So when did our system change ?? I can remember when I was younger when we would go to a neighbor and help with hay if we were done and they wernt and i well remember the tomfoolery at clipping time when the neighbors decended on our farm..

I think the transition to big equipment may have something to do with it. Manual labor is basically free when you have spare time, and it can be a social gathering as well as helping someone else. However if your neighbor is thinking about running his combine on your fields for you, he does that pretty much alone, and spends a good deal of fuel he paid for doing it, why would he do that when he can take the afternoon off with his family instead?

[jac]

Good point.. so mabey the horses have something to do with it after all:)…
John

[mitchmaine]

the horses are really what it “is” for me, too. i get caught up in getting the plowing done so we can spread manure to harrow it in and drill in a crop before the middle of september or else what? the earth don’t end and we haven’t lost the place yet. once in a spell i can get lost in a job and forget the goal for a second and just enjoy the way the horses are going and try to remember what got me here in the first place.
my neighbor asks “so you mow the hay to feed the horses to collect the manure to spread on the field so the grass will grow so you can mow it to feed the horses? when are you done?” he gets it too but can’t let a good jab go once in a while.

[jac]

Totaly agree Mitch… sad thing is the big boys are on the same tread mill. Difference is they have to do it to pay the bank/finance company and I just dont think they get the same fun out of it … but what am saying… big ag doesnt do it for any fun !
John

[near horse]

@dlskidmore 20906 wrote:

Although I agree that it is better to work with your hands, not all unearned income is bad. Many of us have had to rely on lenders to purchase land or equipment, and stock trading is basically high-risk lending to businesses. I have no problem with the person who takes the money he earned with his hands and invests it in another person’s work, or who gives it to someone who has not earned it. Now excessive taking of that credit line or charity can do you harm, but it does have it’s place.

I’m not saying that work is limited to using your hands. Plenty of folks actually earn a living doing other things. Folks sitting on the beach in the Bahamas while stock dividends roll in aren’t earning a living IMHO.

Someone asked what has changed in society – this is part of it. There’s really plenty of pie to go around but some greedy SOBs want more than their fair share. When others see that, they also want more – and away we go. To hell with my neighbor , his loss is my gain …. Sad.

[near horse]

@mitchmaine 20924 wrote:

the horses are really what it “is” for me, too. i get caught up in getting the plowing done so we can spread manure to harrow it in and drill in a crop before the middle of september or else what? the earth don’t end and we haven’t lost the place yet. once in a spell i can get lost in a job and forget the goal for a second and just enjoy the way the horses are going and try to remember what got me here in the first place.
my neighbor asks “so you mow the hay to feed the horses to collect the manure to spread on the field so the grass will grow so you can mow it to feed the horses? when are you done?” he gets it too but can’t let a good jab go once in a while.

One year I was stressing about getting fertilizer on in the spring and an oldtimer here said – “Been around a long time and I ain’t never seen the farming not get done.” Doh!:eek: Put me in perspective.

Are we about the process or the product?

[Author]

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