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Kevin Cunningham
ParticipantWe will see if they will do the switch. I have been leading them in switched sides to new pasture for the past several days and working on some simple drills. They seem to be doing fine in the halter with the turns and stop and goes. There has been a little confusion but I think they are getting it. I won’t be able to yoke them till Tuesday of Wednesday so I will continue with the leading and see where that goes. I can see how the nigh steer who is the least dominant is squeezed forward by pressure on both sides. I also think that these two just might not like each other.
ParticipantWell the last two days had me doing some little chores with the boys and I think it is decided that I am going to try a switch. Now this whole endeavor posses some challenges because I have come to depend on this team for work around the farm. Moving feed, the chicken coop, the pig house, hauling hay They are working farm animals so it is hard to simply stop everything and spend hours, weeks, months retraining them. But the reality is that we have a dysfunctional working relationship that is not sustainable. I am constantly riding them to get the desired result and it won’t work in the long run. I have already started some simple leading exercises with switched sides. They are hesitant but I think we can work through this. I am thinking of setting up some sort of round pen to do this work in. This is going to take some serious thought and work but I won’t know till I try.
ParticipantI totally agree with what y’all are saying. Because of my inexperience I have gone back and forth with which one to “blame” for these issues. First it was Joe(off) then it was Tex(nigh) and then myself and back again. I have come to realize that it is not as easy as that. It is more relational and complicated and I know that Tex and Joe don’t have the most buddy buddy relationship. It might have been different with other individual animals, say if I had kept one of the other calves instead. Carl your advice on the position of the response in the steers is really helpful. I am starting to really consider switching these steers. I have made a lot of mistakes with this team and I think that it would give us a clean slate so to speak. Starting over at the basics again seems of utmost importance right now at the beginning of the season. It would offer the mental challenge that we need to reframe our relationship.
ParticipantI have thought about switching their sides, because part of the problem with the nigh steer being speedy is that he drifts the team away from me and I am constantly hawing them back into position. You are right Carl every time I reach over Tex to speed up the off steer the whole team speeds up then I have to slow them down. I can see that I am sending mixed messages but I can’t figure out a good way to make this team step evenly. I did try to switch sides once and it did not go great, It also did not flop. I think I might have taken the path of least resistance and made it “easy” on myself by not going through with the switch. I would say that the last year and half I have wanted them on opposite sides. Do you think it is too late to try this again? I am starting a single yoke as well because I think this might refocus each animal to my leadership. We will see what happens today!
ParticipantI think a debt assistance or forgiveness would be a good thing…. but I must admit that I stopped getting emails from the Young Farmers Coalition because I didn’t like the rhetoric. We are dealing with this issue because my wife has some outstanding loans, but they are modest and we hope to have them paid down this year. I have worked hard but I can’t say that I pulled up my boot straps in a vacuum, does that make sense? I think getting help, financial, or otherwise is a good thing as long as it makes you work harder towards your goal. Basically I don’t want students bailing on their loans by calling themselves a farmer and then not giving it their all. And honestly you can’t regulate that kinda of gumption. It’s a hard call I support the idea of helping promote young farmers but I would rather give them the skills needed to make a go at this incredibly rewarding but hard path we call farming.
ParticipantThat is good advice and it seems like they are similar. The Joe my off ox steer is the most dominate in the herd but he doesn’t through his weight around, even though he is smaller. Tex does seem to be a bit of a jerk and I have my suspicions that he is the one causing the fence break out lately, but I can’t convict him of that as I have no proof.
ParticipantSo here is a narrative of todays session. I haven’t worked them since last Thursday when Tex threw a major fit. Today I just wanted to keep it simple and do a long and low. We hitched to the stone boat and took a walk to the river and back, about a mile total. This is totally within their capabilities. I took a closer look at the yoke and I am 97.5% certain that the problem is not my gear. Everything was going smooth until we started to head back to the barn. I am possitive that Tex is barn/herd sour. Eventually I have to end a session and as I get closer he continues to get more and more worked up. I know the signs now, he starts tossing his head and rushing and getting that fiery look about him. Unfortunatley due to my poor training early on he has learned to turn in the yoke. He does this to get out of work. Now I have never simply ended because he twists in the yoke, but he did break some bows early on when I was still using pvc bows. I will never use pvc bows in the future. When this happens or ideally before it happens the halter goes on and I work on starts and stops to slow him down and refocus. This is starting to simply piss him off. I manage to get back to the barn without mush fuss but he is panting and frothing again. Instead of tying to the post and unyoking right away I take a little walk in just the yoke and he is fine walking away from the barn but then when I start back toward the barn he starts getting speedy again. It is less pronounced without a load and as the load get heavier the reaction gets greater. Now I haven’t been tying this team in the barn for a while, they have been grazing in the field with the other steers and cows. We have tons of grass right now and last season I battled mange with the other steer the whole time they were in the barn. So I think the barn simply means the end of work to him. Over all I would say the Tex is not a willing worker, he is lazy and has an impatient streak. I know he is not the best animal for a working ox but I am committed keeping him until I have another team started. I hope to start some more animals this year. I know I am not the first trainer to have a barn sour animal. So what is the best advice for working with a barn sour animal.
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You must be logged in to view attached files.ParticipantThey will be 4 in April and Tex the near steer is larger but the less dominate one in the field. He has been standing more aloof from everybody lately. I can lead them around fine in the halter and they seem fine with just the yoke on. When he is under load is when he is rushing ahead. A small load and they are fine but when the weight goes up he gets fiery. The problems I was having last week though were occurring under light load, just the stone boat. This makes me think that the yoke is too small but honestly I can still fit a hand in there it is tight but it doesn’t seem like a problem yet but maybe my inexperience is deceiving me. After a work session Tex will be breathing heavy, frothing and sweating profusely, even after a light day. He is literally hotter than the other steer. He simply seems to be working harder, but he is always a step ahead of the off steer so I would think that he is actually taking less weight. When I have worked them singly in the past Joseph the off steer seems to be able to pull more and is a more willing worker. Part of the problem with Tex is his attitude, he always wants to be done and and is rushing to get back to the barn. We are constantly working on this.
ParticipantHe was banded young, 2-3 weeks, no grain, and I know they need a new yoke soon but maybe soon is now.
ParticipantIt is hard to find nice functional drop spreaders because most farmers didn’t clean them out and they rust out quickly. We had one on loan from a neighbor but he just took it back because we haven’t used it for several years. It was nice right after we bought the farm because we applied a lot of lime to adjust ph, but now we simply add lime to our bedding pack. We certainly are not adding the quantity that we used to but since that lime works in the compost it seems to be more available and it don’t wash away as readily. I would not add the large amounts that we spread with the drop spreader. We also are of the thought that if we keep the minerals up in our animals then that will slowly, but steadily effect the soil. I think that is the key, it may not be the big change all at once but the steady gradual change that has the greatest effect.
ParticipantWell I certainly did not get to posting too much last season. A farmers life is keeping with the ups and downs of the season. But I did get a lot of great experience with the oxen in the garden and I can’t wait for more this season.
Allison, yes I have seen your blog, I love watching the progression of the team. I can’t say that I have any great advice. With my team (JerseyXHolstein) I have one that is faster than the other. This has caused a great number of difficulties that we are still working through. I have heard so many times about the speed of Jerseys and now that we have a Jersey milk cow I can really understand the Jersey obstinance.
Like Carl said real work and lots of it are best for slowing down my boys. They seem to know when I am just loading them up and exercising them with the stone boat. They also get bored walking in circles with the harrow. It is truly a challenge to keep them challenged. The other thing I do is drilling. Step up, whoa, gee, haw, back in rapid fire to get their attention. Start and stop regularly so that they don’t get too barn sour. My team certainly has its vices.
Maybe this will be the year that I can stay up with posting more!
ParticipantI have been wondering the same thing, unfortunately I do not know.
ParticipantIt amazes me how much the passing of these great teamsters that I never knew except through legacy and reputation affects me. Last night I must have been feeling something because I was compelled to look for a copy of his book online to no avail. I am a green teamster searching for these great leaders and I am grateful that his legacy and others lives on in the knowledge that is passed on as it always has been. Still I can’t help but feel regret that I never met the man.
ParticipantI find they are hard to come by in usable condition, at least here on the west coast. Most farmers don’t properly clean them out and they deteriorate rapidly. I have to borrow my neighbors because he won’t sell it to me. He doesn’t use it much but you never know he might need it someday.
ParticipantThe tool bar for the hilling discs is exactly 42 inches wide. The bed that it makes is smaller because the discs throw inward from there. It is enough for two rows of small crops like turnips and carrots at 12 inch spacing. The unit has a cultivator but we haven’t been brave enough to run it over a seeded bed so we are hand hoeing our winter plantings. It will take practice until I am comfortable using the steers to cultivate double row crops. We have used the cultivator over single row brassicas with some success. We are happy with it but it will change our planting plans and will hopefully save time in the garden.
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