[LStone]

Well a picture is worth a thousand words. I guess someone has heard of it including all of us now. Good job of research there CountryBoy.

Good luck,
LStone

[LStone]

No Offense taken Carl. I am dead serious about my “thinking” comment. Nice touch reinforcing it in with the picture though. I can assure everyone that there are no pictures in existance of me leading all three of mine at the same time. Believe me I am being mildly sarcastic but I am aware that everything in my situation is dynamic and I take into account their ages and my experience daily. I also take to heart this advice from all who care give it.

Larry

[LStone]

Thinking…
I am thankful for the advice received on this and I encourage more. I seem to be covering a lot of territory with my animals because I think I am. I work with them daily in some way, shape, or form and I try to work the three of them three days a week. I want to point out that I consider that there is a difference in working with them and working them. I am not a full time logger or farmer and I have posted more background on my situation in various other posts here.

Kidding? I think not. They know where their grain is and in certain instances I am sure they have and will again end up in another stall. But I think you all knew that. So I don’t think changing nameplates will really have any effect on them. Just an attempt at humor.

For me to lead my three orangutans together as shown in the picture on your post Donn and have everything be as calm as they appear. I would not need a whip but only a gun, and I wouldn’t be going anywhere fast. My hat is off to you, your methods, and your example. Over time I hope for similar results.

I guess My question is mainly of expectations rather than application. Agreed that people have those rules in place, and I with my young’uns am smack in the midst of establishing rules and teaching horses that I expect them to be followed. I guess I could re-think whether I want to die on that hill or not.

Carl I think I probably end up using it a little more liberally as a correction. Not that I want to use it at all and as I hope all understand that it is to that end that I hope to achieve.

Confidence- Maybe you are right Carl point taken, but in my opinion I think I display a lot of confidence when I am with them and I cannot think how I could be more confident with them. Now sure I have had failures and mistakes but on the ground in situations that I am familiar with and that they should know how to act better such as with me in the pasture, paddock, barn, or woods etc. I think I am past being apprehensive generally. To be completely honest with myself and the forum it is when I start to over analyze “”new” situations such as the incident in the hayfield I posted on in July where I get more aware of a lack of confidence. I am familiar with the horses, but they are young and I am aware of the inconsistancy that they are capable of displaying. Having said that though I have driven them on a 2 lane 55mph road and in a parade this summer both of those were new situations for us that I didn’t hold up as well as the animals did I am happy to say. But I’ll do better every time and not lose respect for those situations.

… Still thinking, and very appreciative.

Larry

[LStone]

Not sure about the rest of the group but I have a very similar scenario, and after feeding in the a.m. Very little (if any) hay left in the p.m. when I get home. I work them and don’t p.m. feed until about an hour after they are finished their work.

Weekends I usually work them closer to mid day so it really doesn’t effect their feeding in my opinion. I haven’t figured out how to feed and work them for a living though. I don’t figure it involves a lot of waiting around for them to finish at their own pace. I guess the pros would pack along the morning hay ration to the jobsite with them in the trailer.

Larry

[LStone]

Yeah I suspected that the stupid human is mainly responsible for this and I am willing to pay closer attention in the future. Anyway great advice here. I will try it all before I am done, I am sure. Anyhow yesterday I re-read the essay by Doc Hammel about the ten most common wrecks yesterday after I posted my question. He used the ring on the buckle method for that too. I think as time goes on it’s probably a good idea to re-read that article from time to time.
Thanks for your support.

Larry

[LStone]

Ah, thanks Plowboy. I think I know what you mean by floating apart. I like that both on a pole and off. It seems like the horses are working more comfortably that way, as do I. I am able to get better and more consistant line pressure when they “float”. So it is attached to the high small ring on the hames. Now that would certainly change your line adjustment if you put them in the mix. I trust you would use one on each animal not just a single. Also it looks like it reduces the angle of the lines connecting to the bit as well. How does that would effect the control of the animal through the bit either positively or negatively? Lower has always been better in my opinion I have used one of those wrench on chainlinks to drop my line ring on the hames before. Also there seems to be no adjustment so it is only what it gives you, unless you can use the other rings in the set. Also how does that effect the feel of the lines with all that extra swing? Seems like you would not have very good bit response with all that play there.

Larry

[LStone]

I have noticed the last two times I have had the team out, that the (D-ring) forward side strap on my filly is rubbing her raw. I have only hitched her on the off side those times and it is on the outside shoulder in the area of the adjustment buckle. No sign of abnormal wear on the inside shoulder, or any other places. This is the raw, no hair, and some blood, type of wear; not just rubbing hair. Would this be a fitting issue. I have checked and the forward straps on her harness are adjusted to the same length. My gelding on the near side has no sign on wear either. I know that I have to get shorter short traces for her but I don’t see how this would effect this. Any ideas?

Larry

[LStone]

Over the weekend I cut some storm damaged birch trees in the yard and the horses skid’ the tree lengths to the wood yard for plugging and storage. Since I had the team hitched yesterday for our 4 hour haul to the feed store for a months worth of grains, we spent the last part of the afternoon hauling brush from the tree project to the burn pile for celebration this weekend. The trip went well but it rained twice; fortunatley I was prepared for it. I continue to admire the stamina and persistance of our predacessors of another time when the gas engine wasn’t an option and day to day horse power was the horses and other animals. Of course I am sure that in those days the feed store wasmore centrally located and I probably could have done several more “chores” at the same time. Unfortunatley no other places to get anything done at the same time along that route.

Larry

[LStone]

I didn’t know where to post this so I’ll bring this string back to the top since it is still relevant to me. As you may know I started to haul hay from the farm that I buy it from with my young team. Well we did a couple of hay runs last weekend and they worked beautifully for the most part. My team held the wagon on the hills in the field while loading. I wished I had a camera to take a picture of them in that classic draft pose leaning uphill into the load with rear legs back. Truly a sight to behold that not many people get to see, I am sure. Well long story short first day went perfectly with 85 bales on board the wagon. About a four mile round trip.

The next day went well with a different 85 bale load until I tried to leave this particular field at the same farm. The whole field was on a slope up to the road and they seemed comfortable with the grade but just before the entrance to get from the field to the road the grade ramps the slope up for the last push of about 10 or 15 feet. Well when we were leaving when they got to the ramp, they were trying but just weren’t able to push over the hump onto the street. I decided it was too much for them and I woed them up. They held the load fine and I calmed them down. When I thought they were calm enough, I was able to Haw them over and move them to level the wagon on the side of the hill. I stood them and got down to calm them further to reassure them things were OK.

Now I evidently didn’t do a good job loading and the load got loose and shifted to one side in the commotion. The load looked mighty unstable so I disconnected them from the wagon. Meanwhile help arrived in a tractor with a chain. We towed the wagon to a level part of the field. where I unloaded and reloaded. In the mean time I had moved the horses to the middle of the field about 50 feet from the wagon where they stood quietly in harness, lines on the ground in back of them for maybe a half an hour while I reloaded. I am very proud of them for that as again it was another “Kodak” moment. The tractor pulled the loaded wagon up onto road where I re-hitched and rolled home with the kids successfully.

Hind sight being 20/20 I have questions for the group as I know I will get a lot of confidence from the answers I get here.

1. I keep thinking about what if the wagon would have tipped over sideways or they wouldn’t have been able to hold the load? Is there a better best case scenario that I can hope for than the pole breaking between the evener and the wagon? But what if it didn’t break off soon enough? In my mind I see a lot of injury to the horses. I would no doubt be thrown from the wagon but the horses are committed to the pole via the harness, evener, and neck yoke.

2. Was I aggressive enough in getting them over the hump? They are 3 and 4 so I didn’t want to hurt them and that was the hardest I have ever had them working for me. They were truly efforting, and when I saw forward momentum stop I backed off shortly there after. They were barefoot on grass and I don’t think they had ample traction for what I was asking of them. Now don’t laugh at me here guys. I am all for working them as I work with all my other tools, but I am trying to play it conservatively when it comes to there development against ruining them while they are still too young and small to really work hard for me. I am still working out this aspect of care for these guys as they are my first drafts, and young ones at that.

3. Am I over analyzing this? This has been on my mind a lot and I keep playing it over to try to find a better, safer way to test what they can do and keep every experience positive and educational for them as well as I. I am pretty sure they have recovered from the experience and I have had them out a couple times since; but I am not sure that I have gotten over it.

4. Did I do the right thing? Should I have known better? Did I set them up for failure? While I am not satisfied with the outcome, I will take the final result any day as opposed to what I think could have resulted except for some good luck that day.

I am looking forward to your here. If we get some sunshine tomorrow a.m. we are off to the feed store. It is a 4 hour round trip and we’re gonna haul home about a half ton of grain.

Thanks,
Larry

[LStone]

Yep,

Consistancy, time, and repetitions. I am learning that those are key to the desired results Ed. I don’t think that there is anything to be embarrased about though. We all start knowing nothing and working from there. I have read your posts and they have all been valid questions and concerns brought forward by your perspective of experience and situation. Certainly not whining. Personally I think that if you have a question and ask it you will gain knowledge and confidence when it is answered. That is how humans communicate and become successful. Thus the mission of this forum I believe is to encourage same, so that this skill and craft can go forward.

I consider myself fortunate to have this resource of reference to enjoy, and gain more confidence in my projects as well.

Larry

[LStone]

That works for me Carl. Thanks I am sure this will be a useful resource.

[LStone]

Hi Kat,

I heard using cider vinegar may help keep the flies down too. Do you have any knowlege of any truth to that? Also how do you feed it? Do you just dump in to the grain? Might be just the human in me, but although I like it myself on the veggies it seems kinda harsh to mix it in with my cereal.

Larry

[LStone]

Thanks for your replys. My team Roy and Lucy are 4 and 3 respectively. They are reletively green, but I use them for what I can, consistantly 3 or 4 times a week. We go OK but I think I want to take them to another milestone with the “side passes” if that is the term used for only lateral movement either direction. I am currently using “over haw” or “over gee” as commands in harness for this. What I am reading here is that there may not be a “standard” command for a sidepass and that “come” or “over” would both be acceptable depending on the teamster.

By the way I am going about this part of the training by heading them up to a wall or fence line and having them execute. I have also had them hitched to the forecart and pivoting it around in circles. I am not as impressed with that method because the opposite side horse (from side) tends to turn and push towards the pole and the direction of movement. I think I prefer the method of ground driving facing an obsticle. I notice that I seem to consistantly encourage them resist the urge to back up. Usually I spend about half an hour on this before we do the labor of the day, be it cord wood, or road work. They seem to want to respond but I think they are still working out the team interaction between themselves and probably will try to use them single more to build confidence.

Larry

[LStone]

What would a standard command for moving over, or side stepping be? In the stall I use the directional “Gee” or “Haw”-“over” verbal accompanied by a pat on the opposite side of the rump. but is that appropriate for driving? If not what is generally a standard command used? Not having much success with tequila, but beer is a good motivator Jen.

Larry

[LStone]

Jen,

Good topic. I had a problem a while back with getting my team lines adjusted properly. I figured that would be a first step to proper line tension. With the help I received from this group I was able to figure some things out on my own and I am confident that I have worked that out and it feels much better to me. Although I am wondering if it is normal to have more and consistant line pressure while driving a ride as opposed to ground driving. I guess riding just easier to keep a constant adjustment on the lines to manage line pressure better.

When I ground drive I always seem to be walking up the heels of the horses and wonder if I should encourage them to go faster or slow myself down. I hope the answer is to encourage more speed because that is the approach I am using. I figure they have to at least go as fast as i am comfortable walking and the bit should do it’s job if they get going too fast. I find it hard to manage consistantly though. Sometimes they seem to get kind of bored and their intensity level drops off considerably and I can recognize and discourage that behavior when it occurs and I attribute that to their young age. Anyway I am interested in hearing more on this subject.

Thanks,

LStone

[Author]

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