[OldKat]

@KGerstner89 19279 wrote:

One of my bigest questions i got is how fast do there horns grow? I know they can grow to over 8ft but by then he would prob be hambuger meat. It will be helpfull to know how long i would beable to work a team befor there horns start to become a problem or would it be possable to trim the horns so it wont become a problem.

The longhorns in my area seem to be slow growing, late maturing type of individuals. Not sure how fast their horns grow, but it doesn’t seem fast based on those I see in pastures in our area & there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of them in a 40 to 50 mile radius of where I live.

Remember, the longhorns that built the cattle business in Texas were free roaming and were gathered by the drovers before they drifted them north to markets; primarily in Kansas. I have a link somewhere to a book that was written in the late teens or early twenties by oldtimers that drove longhorns up the trail in the 1860’s through the late 80’s & even a few into the 1890’s. Most mention that those big steers and cows were mainly 5 to 7 year olds. That would make sense, because with their lanky frame few would be expected to even approach finish weight before they were at least 3 to 4 years old. To really get a cover on them they were probably 5 or better. That would probably account for the stories of them having the truly big horn spans.

I would expect steers kept on grain would grow out much faster, probably would have better horn growth, too. There are bound to be some websites for people that sell longhorns. Shoot some of them an email and ask how fast the horns grow on their animals.

You could saw their horns off to whatever length you desire, but of course you would then have a blunt horn instead of a tapered horn. Might tend to destroy the look you are trying to acheive.

[OldKat]

@jac 19250 wrote:

Has anyone noticed the change in a horses eye when she foals for the 1st time ?. they seem to take on a more matronly or mabey its a more concerned/wise look…as if they gain all the answers when the foal is born. Ive seen it twice now. first time was my Clyde mare Ruth who’s 1st was a still born foal and that “look” came in her eye when she realised the foal wasnt going to move. Saw it the day before yesterday with Andreas pony. One day she was a “youngster”.. the next day she had the “look”..
John

Yes. I have, though only a few times, because I the only mares that I have ever owned had foaled prior to me owning them. I have seen it in mares owned by friends though.

I also notice the same thing with heifers. You can’t really put your finger on what it is, they are just “different” afterwards. I’ll resist making that comparison to my wife, because she might someday read this post and I get in enough trouble accidently with out bringing it on myself on purpose!

[OldKat]

@jac 19020 wrote:

This is interesting as what you are describing is the opposite to what I would want in a horse..flares are my worst enemy but I can totally understand the reduction of poaching aspect. For my Clydes to succeed with a bare foot trim I need to keep the toe backed up and the heels dropped with no flaring of the quarters. Its interesting the wild cattle put on a wide foot. I wonder if they were roaming over differing surfaces if the foot would tighten up ??..good to hear you again Ixy..
John

Just curious, why do you say this?

[OldKat]

@Russel 19060 wrote:

Hi there

Im from the Eastern Cape in South Africa. Weve got 1200 ha farm here, on which we run Black Angus and Hereford cows as well as Dohne Merino sheep. We have about 220ha of cultivated land, of which about half is lucerne(alfalfa for you). The rest is planted each year to either triticale, stooling rye or barley.

Recently I have become interested in using either oxen or horses as draught animals. Most farms in South Africa have tons of old ox drawn implements lying around, so it isnt a problem to find implements. I recently aquired an old IHC #9 High Gear mower, its pretty rusted and the sickle bar is missing many parts but the rest is in intact with a few exceptions. I also have a 3 furrow moline plow, unlike many of the gang plows I have seen in America, none of the South African versions have seats. Does anyone on this forum have any info or pics of the mower that I could use as a reference in restoring mine?

Many thanks
Russel Harvey

Russel,

Welcome aboard. There is an excellent book on restoring horse drawn mowers in general, and the #9 in particular, by Lynn Miller from the Small Farmers Journal. Check out their website. I just picked up a #9 myself a month or so ago and will be restoring it this fall.

I have good friend, a local horseshoer / entrepreneur, last name Minnaar from South Africa. He and I have been talking of a trip over there for some time. It just hasn’t happened, yet.

If you get into oxen, would you be using Afrikaners or Bonsmaras or some other local breed? I would LOVE to own some Bonsmaras; they are ideally suited for my part of the world. By the way, I once had the opportunity to met the late Jan Bonsma, and listen to him speak on selecting animals to suit their environment. The man was a genius, no doubt.

[OldKat]

@KGerstner89 18840 wrote:

Ya I live in Burkburnett witch is just north of Wichita Falls. The place I’ll be keeping them is on my Uncles farm, behind his farm is another one that has about 6 longhorns and 3 donkeys and about 2-3 months ago one of there younger bulls jumped the fence over into our property. Apparently they had just brought the bull and the donkeys were not being nice to it so it jumped the old torn up fence witch they had since then replaced. I’ll try to see if I can find that link. I’ve always liked longhorns since they look very nice. My uncle says that if it dont work out then they will become part of the beef herd that is on the 10 acres.

Burk Burnett; now there was a true cattleman. Quite an interesting fellow, ranks up there with Goodnight, Loving and that bunch of pioneering drovers.

Longhorn bulls will go through the best of fences. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Paste this in your browser.

http://www.premierlonghorns.com/RidingLonghorns.html

Folks are in Stillwater, not Pauls Valley. Still not but about 3 hours or so from you.

Good luck,
OldKat

[OldKat]

@KGerstner89 18838 wrote:

I’m wondering how Texas longhorns would be as oxen since they are the breed that I want to train for just about eavrything they can do on a farm, but since I’m new to the draft animal I’m wondering are they going to be hard or easy to train if I get them as calfs.

You are the guy near Wichita Falls aren’t you? I can’t give you any insight on working them as oxen; my inclination is that they would probably not be the best option there is around based on experiences I have had in dealing with them in the pasture. That is when people that are near by that have them and they end up in my pasture. I will not lease pasture land if a neighboring place has longhorns.

Of course, your qualifier was if you got them as calves and that might be a different story. There are some people around Pauls Valley, OK or somewhere up that way that ride them, rope off them and do all sorts of things with them. I think there was a link to them at one time on one of the threads on the Oxen forum, something about riding steers or similar. They might have more insight or know more about what you are asking, if you can find that link and contact them. Besides, if you are near the Falls you aren’t terribly far away from them.

[OldKat]

@goodcompanion 18795 wrote:

The running gear came from a light “market wagon” with a bench seat and an open bed. It had 44″ wheels on the front and 48″ in the rear. I moved the front wheels to the rear and had new 34″ wheels made. In making the attachment blocks on the box I accounted for the height of each spring with the new wheel sizes for a level installation.

I also added booster springs directly over the front and rear axles, to help out the fore-and-aft “market wagon” springs. Which I guess is a real name for that kind of spring. Seems to have worked since it is springy, neither too squishy nor too stiff.

We might try bending our own shafts using a steam pipe and the heat of a hot fire in the bakery oven. Another source of shafts is a long way away, they cost money, and we want to get this show on the road. Unless someone nearby reading this has a set of double bend draft size shafts lying around….

Also spoke to the Vergennes city manager about having the city drill a hole for a pvc pipe at the curbside where I’ll be vending. I can plunk my own hitching post into the socket on arrival and take it with me when I leave. Seems like a decent idea though I’ve never seen it done.

So you added the elliptical springs; front and back?

[OldKat]

@Countymouse 18796 wrote:

I wonder if you might be able to make an “S” shaped riser out of steel that would fit between the shafts and the front axle. A metal working shop could probably make one pretty quickly if you (like me) don’t have all the equipment to do this. It might be pretty cheap and strong too. You could probably paint it green and no one would know the difference… Just thoughts…

I’d bet this could be done, too. Like he said, no one would even know the difference … or at least VERY few people would & they probably would never bring it up. Were it me, I would go this route until I could get a set with the double bend in it. I have an extra set sized for draft horses, but you are a bit far away from me or I would drop by and loan it to you!

[OldKat]

@goodcompanion 18761 wrote:

That is a good point and I think you are right. I may need to swap these shafts for ones with a “riser” in the rear. Part of this is probably due to the fact that I swapped the original wheel (44″) for a 34″ wheel, thus losing 5″ of height. Plus I am using a tall horse.

Yes; this set of shaves was designed for a higher wheeled rig, maybe something similar to a Meadowlark cart. Interesting running gear. Maybe you posted it earlier, but if so I don’t recall your saying … where did you get the running gear for this wagon?

[OldKat]

@goodcompanion 18674 wrote:

All right, here’s a query. I just finished working on the running gear. It’s all painted and ready to go, just not attached to the box yet. The box is still in the shop and needs a bit more work. I am thinking ahead to hitching the horse to the shafts. Problem is, I have never put a horse in shafts before. I use new england d-ring harnesses.

My understanding is that I will use shaft loops and holdback straps. I get the bit with the holdback straps. I have a lot of extra lines around and it seems like any strong strap with a buckle will do the job. But where and how to attach the shaft loops to my harness? I assume that the shafts need to be sort of hugged towards the horse’s sides for good steering, just never seen it done. I am using some new shaft loops bought from Meader’s. Any help appreciated.

Another batch of pictures coming up soon.

Kind of a silly question, but has the horse you are hitching to this wagon ever been driven in a set of shaves before?

[OldKat]

After a telephone conversation with Donn I started working on this with my mares before I destroyed my back last year & I can say it was working. Then after totally screwing up my spine I couldn’t harness them for nearly 11 months and when I did they were responding to this method by the second day. I thought I was going to get a lot of push back from them, but I really didn’t. I am off tomorrow and I can’t wait to hitch up.

[OldKat]

“This is how we roll.”

I like it; short & to the point. Ties in with your bakery stuff, too. Thought of a picture of a horsedrawn dinner roll ( on wheels)? 😀

[OldKat]

Sounds like you are on the right track. I had something similar happen to me one time and I was sure I had “ruined” a good mare. She got over it, probably before I did.

[OldKat]

@mitchmaine 18461 wrote:

john, maine would be just fine if it wasn’t for that danged ocean! people drive up, fall in love with the place and decide to retire up here someday, so in the meantime , buy the biggest best peice of farmland and out of some sense of guilt, decide to grow christmas trees or something. they’re all for perserving the open space, until you show up with a truckload of hen manure. “this can’t be farming” “no one i know would put THAT on their land” “it has to be toxic”. i could go on for hours, but i think i made my point. unfortunately, an investment is rated in dollars and cents, and no one can quite decide when they have “enough” so they keep doing what they do well (make money) and land is a keen way so they eat it up and spit it out like tap water. i wish land here was as spare as it is in scotland, maybe someone would value it more and use it the way it was intended. i love to rant. i think i will go on for hours. i heading off to rant some more. best wishes, mitch

Same situation here, except that the draw is “country life” rather than the ocean. No one would be attracted to the water in my part of the world, even if it were not filled with BP’s oil. Harry S. Dent, who wrote The Great Boom Ahead in the late 1980’s and The Roaring 2000’s Investor in the late 1990’s predicted outrageous increases in land prices within 100 miles or so of any major city in the US as technology made working from home possible and the “baby boomers” started buying their trophy / retirement homes. I don’t agree with every premise that he has advanced, but he hit the nail on the head regarding real estate. I wish I would have believed him at the time and acted upon it, because now I am priced out of the market in my area.

I had wanted to retire by now, but as my retirement account has gone “tilt” over the last couple of years I am now considering staying in the work force and putting in for a job with my employer in another state, where land prices are much more manageable.

[OldKat]

@goodcompanion 18416 wrote:

Here are some photos. There is enough of it together now to give you the idea!

I have been in dialog with SFJ about doing an article about this project, from the original inspiration through construction to the end use. Any suggestions from you guys as far as angles of interest to the readership would be welcome! For instance one thing to note is that while my version makes pretty heavy use of cabinet joinery, you can make a very serviceable box using plywood in lieu of stile-rail-panel construction, I could elaborate on that.

Another is that I have along the way learned a lot about springs and wheels, and what makes commercial vehicles distinct from passenger vehicles. That is to say, a doctor’s buggy or amish buggy would make a poor platform for a wagon like this, and explaining why that’s so might save somebody a lot of trouble.

Ohhh, niiiiiice work. This is so fun to watch coming into reality.

[Author]

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