[OldKat]

It really is a nice story. The other one, about the horse stuck in the swamp was too. 😎

[OldKat]

As a veteran of about 15 to 20 hog slaughterings, though none recently, I can tell you that what Carl had to say is EXACTLY what you need to do. At least that was the way my late father taught me and he had about 40 years exeprience in that industry. They used a pneumatic “bolt gun” to dispatch them, but you are not going to have one of those so go with the .22 rifle as Carl suggests.

Are you going to scrape the hide? Will need LOTS of hot H2O for that. I forget the correct temperature and time they need to soak. Not sure what your weather is like right now, but we always tried to do this in the fall after the temps dropped below the current 1,000 degrees. (over stating that, but that is what it feels like)

If you have never done one before you probably should locate someone that has to be on hand. Oh, and allocate about a whole day for this if this a first time for you. After that it goes much faster.

Good luck.

[OldKat]

@Donn Hewes 9736 wrote:

Nice work Dry Branch, those are nice looking loads of hay. I too was trying to bring in some hay yesterday. I got a couple loads in the barn by 5 pm. when I got a flat tire on a hay wagon just as the black skies rolled in and really opened up. Challenging work for good horses and mules. By the time I transferred about thirty bales to another wagon and raced (almost a trot) back to the barn, it was thunder and lightning and trees braking. Quick unhook horses and stand in the barn and unharness while the storm passed. A few wet windrows today. I would have left the field a few minutes earlier than I did, but for the flat tire.

… and it still hasn’t rained here. A grand total of 17″ for the year, 11 of that in one weekend in April. None at all since early May. Oh, and the fifth day in a row of 100 plus temps, 104 yesterday. Frustrating 🙁

[OldKat]

Great poem. I’m not even an ox guy and it moved me (is that a tear in my eye? Must me something in it!) Good going there Rod.

[OldKat]

Hi Jennifer, welcome to DAP. Those are some very NICE horses you have there.

I looked at the map, and you are not terribly far from friends that I have in Carlisle and in Cherry Valley, NY. That is a really nice part of the world, I am sure you enjoy living / working there.

Once again, welcome. Don’t be a stranger …

[OldKat]

@Donn Hewes 9604 wrote:

There is nothing like baling hay, putting it in the barn and then watching it start to rain! I know it is more luck than anything else but it still feels good. The hay was just barely dry enough to bale. Fortunately the barn starts out empty so we can make a single layer of bales over the whole floor. Made about three hundred bales yesterday. Not a great yield from that field, but nice early hay. Now we are getting some much needed rain. I can fix a vacuum pump, and do some more pasture clipping. Here are a few pictures.

Sounds like you have found the groove that you need to be in. I know getting hay baled, or anything else done for that matter, is tough when you get the amount of rain that parts of the N.E. & New england have been getting. We went through that in 2007. Practically no hay was made until about September, because it just would not quit raining.

Then it did quit and has really not started back since. Not sure which is more aggravating. I guess if it was easy, everybody would do it though wouldn’t they? Hang in there guys (and gals) it WILL change at some point.

[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 9611 wrote:

And it’s even more amazing when I realize how little I knew twenty years ago, but it apparently was enough to get started with.:rolleyes:

Carl

That is kind of the challenge isn’t it? Knowing enough to get started and be a success at a venture, yet not knowing “too much” about it to the point you talk yourself out of even trying it. Delicate balance.

[OldKat]

@goodcompanion 9591 wrote:

Very nifty. I am always impressed by the work of really skilled framers.

I did about half of the frame on my house as a timber frame (everything except exterior and partition walls, which were stick built. I really enjoyed doing that work. Just as I am in awe of our forerunners who routinely plowed down more land in a day than I can manage in a week, I am in awe of those who routinely put up beautiful and enduring structures using only hand tools.

I made my frame out of local hemlock. Spitting wet and heavy as lead!

Since you mentioned timber frame economics, I’d like to add another note. I have two books on timber framing, both by Tedd Benson, in my library. The first I loved from the start. Written in 1978, it is brimming with idealistic back-to-the-lander fervor, with much wordage about the clarity and honesty of good work done by hand, and a strong message that by adhering to good design principles and doing much work yourself, a timber frame house need be no more expensive than a conventional one.

Benson’s next book on timber framing, written in the mid 90’s, depressed the hell out of me. Gone were the pen-and-ink and b + w photos of the original–this time it was nice and glossy, with many of the examples portrayed being (in my view) extremely lavish homes. Also gone is the back-to-the-lander sentiment, as well as any realistic expectation that someone who wants to live in a timber-framed house might have any real hands-on involvement in its construction.

The gist of the first book is, “here is how to build your timber frame house.” The gist of the second is, “here is an idea of the beautiful timber frame house that your timber frame contractor can build for you.” The intervening 15 years saw an upscaling of the framer’s art, coinciding with a general increase in new construction costs across the board.

I find the idea that beauty belongs only to the rich very depressing. This was part of the reason why I got out of timber/woodworking entirely and into farming instead. At least with farming, there is a possibility that someone with economic means similar to my own might buy my products. But timber frame houses are part of a world that belongs to my betters.

Which is bizarre. All this timber, all around us (at least here in Vermont) yet no feasible way to convert that timber into beautiful, durable, affordable housing.

Erik, I know what you mean and I don’t disagree with what you are saying in anyway. I know several people, including a brother-in-law that have gone into specialty woodworking, cabinet making, door and sash work, creative design etc, etc with the idea that they could bring beauty and an artistic approach to living spaces of common people. Without fail the comments from the consuming public went something like this; “I love your (cabinets, windows, whatever) and I would really like to include them in my home, BUT I can buy them so much cheaper at Lowe’s, Home Depot, Sutherland’s, McCoy’s, etc, etc.

You know, and I know, that what they are doing is like comparing apples to basketballs. Still it is very difficult for the average person to appreciate what goes into a custom made product.

I am not that way, because about 25 years ago we gutted a then 65 year old home and replaced virtually everything; plumbing, wiring, bathrooms, kitchen, the whole deal. We insulated up to the limits of what a structure that old can be insulated. We used double insulated windows where possible. I built the cabinets myself and did most of all of the other work myself as well. We could have easily had a custom built home constructed on that site for way less money than we spent on rescuing what was there. The only upside is that we started a trend in our neighborhood and virtually all of the older homes in the area have since undergone extensive makeovers that have kept them from meeting the wrecking ball. Our reward for all of this industry? Our taxes have increased almost 4-fold in the last 20 years! Now we almost can’t afford to live there anymore! When we retire we will no doubt have to move to another area because the taxes have gotten so high. Sad.

While I know what goes into it, most people are so far removed from any craftsmanship that their only frame of reference is what can be bought out of a big box store. If their only criteria is money, the craftsman loses NEARLY everytime unless the prospective customer has deep pockets or is somehow motivated beyond the financial aspect.

[OldKat]

@Biological Woodsman 9582 wrote:

Although everyone may not have the skills to do timber framing, it is a traditional way to build long lasting strong structures. There seems to be many timber framers throughout the country and they may be located through the Timber Framers Guild on the web.

Since we have somewhat shifted to this market for the goods produced by our services and nobody else had posted anything on this section I figured it may be of interest to see the project we were involved in with StreamLine Timberworks and the Floyd Fest group.

Every piece that eventually went into this “front of the house” structure was from standing dead or dying trees and many were completely flat on the ground having blown over. Most were scarlet oak and still had plenty of sound wood to make these beams from.

This event is a local music festival that attracts thousands of visitors to our somewhat remote mountain community annually. It is an opportunity to showcase our services and goods to a large sector of the public. The organizers are always looking for a new angle on their event and “green” is the current buzz. It is the biggest event in our area of the year. We see it as a combination of music festival and eco-tourism. We have resisted invitations to do live demos on site and wagon rides as that is not what we are interested in and their is no financial reward for the effort. So we just plan to attend and share a booth with the timber framers to give the “green” spin on the “source differentiated identity” of their products coming from DRAFTWOOD “green certified” horse logged beams from restorative forestry.

Meanwhile back to the homesteading aspect of using this building technique for your home or barns. Attached is a picture of the frame that these guys threw up in an afternoon. More photos available if anyone is interested.
I have to say that for years we tried to work with these folks by supplying beams with the response being “you are to expensive”. Nowadays, with the search for green sourced materials our cost is less of an issue. Stick to your principles and wait for the market to come to you. We just sell the material harvested using our principles of restorative forestry, (and not used in the timber frame) into the conventional markets for whatever they will give us. This amounts to most of the volume actually and we are thankful for that market although economically marginal.

Maybe this will lead to a thread about locally produced building materials and other styles of building.

Since we didn’t get any comments on the you tube link posted on this event last time I will post it again for those will high speed connections to view it on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTRCONaBZe4&feature=channel_page

… but I must be having a “duh” moment here. Jason, what is meant by the term “front of the house” structure? :confused:

BTW: Very nice work.

[OldKat]

@HeeHawHaven 9583 wrote:

I didn’t get out there fast enough to buy it! Wish I did. It would have made a great project and goal for my animals and me.

Dave

Sorry to hear that Dave. I’ve had the same thing happen to me with stuff that I waited too long on.

BTW: What is meant by the term “High Gear”? I noticed it cast into the housing and Mark commented on it. What does that term say about the mower?

[OldKat]

@Rod44 9581 wrote:

That is really slick what people can come up with!!!:)

… I was thinking the same thing; sure a nice tool to do that sort of work. Not that I have any use for anything like that, but it is pretty nice to know about it anyway.

After just looking at the pictures I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why the shanks came out the side of the frame at an angle (45 degrees ?), Roberts’ explanation makes perfect sense once you envision what he is saying.

Thanks for posting the thumbnails Robert.

[OldKat]

@Robert MoonShadow 9570 wrote:

As promised a while back, I’ve taken photos of the trail ace that was invented by my boss, Bonner Brumley. Very useful for ripping up ground (especially in wilderness areas where machines aren’t allowed) for reconstruction of trails. I’ve taken quite a few photos, am including several that I hope will give an idea on the various adjustments that can be made. I’m not trying to promote this, really; just thought some might find it interesting or useful. Bonner did request that I mention that he will build one & sell for $2,000. {He just sold this used one for $1500}. The one he’s keeping (and new ones will be similar) are a bit stouter than this original one. Approximately 400 miles of trail have been reconstructed with this one. The hitch can be swung arounf/over, to offset the apperatus for left- or right-hand slopes. I hope the phots have enough details to show how the teeth can be set on the angle shown or straight down or straight out to the side. 3 teeth (various sizes – usually use only one or two at a time) & this is operated with one guy controlling it from behind while another leads the big draft mule/horse. This is because there is so much going on, and lines will just tangle. Anyways, if anyone’s interested, I can answer questions/give more details & pick Bonner’s brain for more {I’ve only used it a few times}. If someone’s interested in contacting Bonner about purchasing one or perhaps the plans, pm me. I’ve got more photos, too; when I’ve got more time (or that %#$#@$ DSL finally gets extended to here) I can post more in the photo section, if there’s interest. Trailwork might be another option to keep men & animals in the woods, making money, for those back East. [Referring to a thread about the subject, here on DAP]
I’m not sure if these will come out as ‘thumbnails’ or not… if not, someone please explain how to do it? I hope you all enjoy it!

Robert,

Exactly how is this tool used? Or, have you gone through all of that in a previous post? I take it that the frame can be flipped upside down, or rather that the angled blade on the top can inserted on the bottom instead and be used to srape the surface of the trail … is that correct?

[OldKat]

@Does’ Leap 9551 wrote:

OldKat:

I have only been working horses for a few years, but I’ll give you my 2 cents. After my wreck 14 months ago, it took a long time to get back my horses trust and comfort (I had a lot of prancing too). I did this by going back to “ground zero” or kindergarten. For my horses, this was pulling an empty wagon attached to a forecart around the barn. Basically I bored them to death. I slowly added things that were louder and more stressful for them. From the forecart to an evener, just ground driving. Than an evener dragging some cans or something noisy. Then small logs. I wouldn’t progress to the next step until they walked on a lose line. I was also doing some roundpen work and groundwork, mixing it in at will.

It took a while to get them back to where they were and they have progressed way beyond the point before the wreck and are doing great.

Good luck.

George

George,

Actually your reply may have the seeds of the solution embedded in it. Neither of my mares has tried to bolt away from me, but Maggie (the mare in question) did run with the Amish guy that was farming with them in the spring of 2008. She is very sensitive to sounds that are coming from behind her and he was driving her to his steel tired buggy on a bumpy, gravelly road when she had enough and ran. After I got them back I did exactly what you suggested; went back to kindergarten, round pen, ground driving etc starting last fall and she has been progressing very nicely up until now. However, it just dawned on me after reading your reply that she is probably responding more to the noise the tires make as they slide along the ground than the fact that she is pulling something. I had thought of tin cans on a string, chains banging on pipe, etc but had not pursued it. I think I will work more on desensitizing her to sound and will work on that before I ask her to do something that I know she is not yet comfortable with.

The prancing itself does not bother me, other than I know that it can feed on itself until she works herself into a complete tizzy and that can be a real problem. Also, I don’t want her stirring the other mare up. I want them working on a loose line as you suggested, and that is where I was when I was just ground driving her (and the two of them as a team) and not dragging anything so I know she can do it. Just a little more effort is called for on my part. That and maybe being a little smarter than the source of the problem.

There are some other things that I have been toying with, but have also not pursued like getting an open bridle for her so she can see what is going on around her. Guess I need to get busy.

Thanks for your feedback, it was right on target. Also encouraging to know that other people have overcome similar issues.

All The Best,
SRR

[OldKat]

Okay, now I am puzzled by a behavior. I need some feedback please. I have been finding things for my mares to pull around; old posts, an old gate, etc. Mostly though I have been pulling tires around and every few days I add another tire. These are not tractor tires, just 16” light truck tires chained together. I started with one tire, then two, three & so forth. I am now at 5.

When I got to 3 tires chained together my Maggie started prancing. Not when I am hitching or unhitching from the single-tree … she stands like a rock then. However as soon as she starts moving she wants to start high stepping. It seems like when we make a turn and the traces rub on her hocks she gets flustered and she never seems to calm down afterward. I tried the suggestion that Andre’ made to highway of letting her push into the bit, but instead of backing away from it she just pushes even harder. I did succeed in getting her to move at a slower walking speed, but her actions still said “prance”. If you have ever seen the Rose Bowl Parade where the mounted posse rides palominos that prance, but are moving at a REAL slow forward speed you will understand what she was doing.

She does NOT seem to be lunging to start the load. I have both of them trained where they will step up into the collar with a command of “step”, which means just that. They both will “step” on command until the traces are tight, and both will just stand there with traces taught without fidgeting. With a cluck and a “getup” though, Maggie starts her prancing. I don’t really get the sense that she is trying to run away from the load because I have given her completely slack lines and her speed increases, but she does not bolt.

Rachel, the other mare, has taken right to this pulling thing, especially considering I had the mishap where I let my lines slip through my hands and pop her on the rump. She got over that little screw up like nothing ever happened. The next time I hitched her everything was all good. However Maggie is not enjoying these exercises at all. Quite frankly I’m not having that much fun with it either. Suggestions?

[OldKat]

Wow, George that was a fantastic reply to his question. That may be one of the top ten posts I have ever seen, on any board … about any subject. I am impressed.

thousandhills; his answer may not have been exactly what you WANTED to hear, but I strongly suspect that it was you NEEDED to hear. He is offering some sound advice, I would take it to heart if I were in your shoes.

The one thing that you do NOT want to do is go off on something half cocked. Take it from someone who jumped in over his head on a business venture without really being prepared … the stree that doing something when you are not fully ready for it is a killer.

NOT saying you CAN’T do what you want to do, just follow sage advice and make sound planning decisions BEFORE you commit fully to it. If prayer fits into your belief system, do that too!

[Author]

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