[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 6042 wrote:

Hey you guys, my love of language and the way I put together thoughts is kind of out of the context of Aaron’s thread.

However, I have an answer to those comments that will at the same time explain why there will never be a book, where I really see my creative expression having value, and also can share in the adventure that Aaron is on.

Below is a poem I wrote many years ago, not long after I started working horses, and trying to scratch out the life I had dreamed of.

It goes like this…

The Earth as my canvas,
Life is the easel,
My being the brush,
I paint my dreams.

Carl

’nuff said.

[OldKat]

@near horse 6173 wrote:

Kudos to you, Robert!!! Killing healthy bull calves is not being a responsible herdsman. And neither is starving them. I really like your community level idea(s). To paraphrase Reagan:eek: “we don’t have a food shortage, we have a food distribution problem.” There are those that make things happen, those that watch things happen and those that wonder what happened.

In another month or so when things start to green up, lots of folks start looking for something to graze. The buyers who come around and buy all the bull calves when prices are good should have to forward contract those purchases so when times are lean, they can’t just walk away and leave the dairyman with kill ’em or starve ’em as the only options. This is another “problem” w/ the agribusiness model. People jump into an ag enterprise when it gets hot, end up flooding the market, drive prices down and then jump back out. Meanwhile, the guys that worked their butts off to build the market barely get a return before the prices drop. I’ve seen it with everything from hay to organic veggies and CSA’s.

This is another “rabbit trail” off the subject of composting, but it is related to near horse’s comments so here goes. In the late 1960’s when there were still large dairy farms in Central Texas (mostly gone now) the same situation was occurring. A guy I came to know later in college was just in early junior high school when he said “This is crazy, there has to be a better way”

He started picking up these Holstein and Holstein cross bull calves for literally a dollar or so each, always under $5.0 per head. He brought them home, castrated them and raised them until they were about 90 to 120 days and then branded them and turned them out on the Fort Hood military reservation. I am not sure if he had nurse cows or how he did this, but he had some sort of system he was using.

Also, he was fortunate in that when Ft Hood was established his family received “animal unit grazing rights” when their land was purchased by Uncle Sam. He knew that several family members were not using their rights so he “leased” their rights from them. When beef prices soared in 1972 or ’73 he sent about 4 or 5 “pots”, or pot belly cattle trailer loads of 1,600 or 1,700 pound steers to the sale barn. These big guys were in some cases 6 or 7 years old. They didn’t command top dollar, but there was a lot of pounds of them. Probably boned out for the hamburger market.

Anyway, he stuck tens of thousands of (1972) dollars in his pocket as a senior in high school. I always told him that college was probably holding him back, he had too good of a head for business to be wasting time with the likes of us!

Not saying this could be repeated, and not everyone has access to free grazing … still he found an underutilized asset (or two) and turned it into something of value. I sure admire people that find ways to do things like that.

[OldKat]

@near horse 6264 wrote:

Howie,

It’s sad to hear that your friend got rid of his cows but subsidizing the grain market isn’t how most dairymen want to spend their efforts.

I’ve noticed (even through the classifieds ads mentioned by Erika http://www.leepub.com/classified%20files/samplewebpage) a lot of brokers looking for dairy cows (I assume for resale) as well as others looking for dead and downers for rendering. With milk prices in the toilet and money tight, how are some dairies able to justify adding more cows to their string? Is it just to slow the slide and perhaps weather the storm of low prices?

As I’ve mentioned before, its’ sad to see someone drop out of a business that they have a passion for (my assumption that your Amish friend liked dairying) while the “big guys” that are still going strong could just as well be producing Milk Duds instead of milk. It’s just a business for them.

A few years ago I was in Sulphur Springs, Texas an area formerly known for a great number of dairy farms. By the time I was visiting there, about 25 years after my first visit to the area, most of the local dairy farmers had gone out of business. However, there were several foreigners starting up operations there … mostly Dutch people I think.

Then I saw an article in a magazine a year or so later that said the area was experiencing a renewal of sorts in the dairy industry with people that were using a grass based, seasonal approach (milking from September through May, then drying the cows down for the summer) rather that feeding large amounts of concentrates. The main guy they were talking about was not a foreigner, well at least not from overseas … he was from Iowa!

Anyway, he had relocated there to escape the cold winters and had paid his place off in just a few short years; set up his oldest son in a nearby dairy and they were just about paid off on it, too. At the time he had just set up his youngest son, as well. No word on whether the Dutch in the area were using this model or not. He was planning on retiring in just a few years, but already he was taking the summer months off to visit cooler parts of the world. I guess he had someone watching after the cows while he played tourista.

Anyway, interesting to note that some people can take the same set of variables and figure out a completely different outcome.

[OldKat]

@Simple Living 5973 wrote:

It’s the government in bed with big ag. businesses, kinda like fightin’ the Devil himself. It will never be “dead”. Keep fighting and for goodness sakes let your local/state reps know how we all feel! STOP NAIS NOW! At one time agencies like the USDA were meant to help us. Now all they are good for is helping themselves…. to our pocketbook, all in the name of food/health/national safety.

I had alot more typed in here, but I’ll save that for another day.

Gordon

Basically, you just described the entire federal government.

[OldKat]

First & most importantly, Congrats to Aaron on his recent big day. Sounds like his hard work is paying off.

Second; it sure is neat to see how you guys that live close together up in that beautiful part of the country are interested in mentoring newcomers. My hat is off to all of you. Great job.

Finally, I was just thinking the other day along the lines of what Howie said about Carl’s writing skills. Carl can almost paint a picture with words, surely he is gifted in this area. I keep thinking that he will tell us soon that he is having a major book published. I dunno, kind of like uhhh, Wendell Berry?

Again, Aaron & all …great job!

[OldKat]

I had contacted our state animal health commission; TxAHC about this issue back in the fall sometime. They told me then that it was “probably” a dead issue anyway. Hopefully we can hear soon that they have put a stake in the heart of this beast once and for all. Big Government run-a-muck for sure.

Thanks to all for the links…

[OldKat]

This is thread is another great example of the value of this site; some really good stuff here. I guess Jennifer hit the nail on the head for me when she said: “My advice, Ed, if you are building a barn from scratch…think about what makes life easier for you and is most natural for the herd. Turns out many things that are natural for the horse, also make your life easier as well“. I guess that is just her experience coming out. Either that or that good old fashion common sense that New Englanders are so famous for is showing through! Anyway, she is thinking along the same lines that I do.

My setup is growing and evolving. We started our current operation with one saddle horse for my daughter, so the shelter was pretty basic; a single 14′ x 24′ open shed with a section partioned off for hay and feed storage. Tack stayed at home, for security reasons.

When the fillies joined us the shed became three tie stalls, but really nothing changed. I still used it as run in shed. For the last year or so I have tied all three while they are eating, otherwise they use the shed as they desire.

I built a 26′ x 48′ “pole barn” several years ago, but it has mainly been used for equipment storage. This year, while my wife is on Spring Break (she teaches 1st grade) we are going to work on adding (3) 12′ x 12′ box stalls. (How is that for a way to spend Spring Break? Romantic sort, ain’t I?)

For those of you from more Northern locales, a pole barn is open sided (usually) in our area. It consists of telephone poles and trusses, with a corrugated metal roof. Mine sits on a slight rise on the property and is shaded most of the day by two large Post Oak trees, so it almost always one of the coolest spots on the property. My objective is not to protect the horses from the cold, but rather to make them comfy in the heat. Also, I want to see if I can keep their coats from bleaching out in the Summer months by putting them in stalls during the day & turning them out at night.

Each box stall will have a 12′ x 24′ turnout attached, hopefully they will do most of their “business” out there! The forth 12′ bay will be built out for feed storage. The shed will become hay storage for square bales, with a small tack area for my harness and there will still be one tie stall for harnessing up. I’ll just have to risk keeping my harness there, as this hauling it back and forth from the house has gotten old.

Anyway it is something of an odd setup, but is what I have decided is the best way to use what I have available while I am still living where we now live.

[OldKat]

@J-L 5468 wrote:

Neat story OldKat. One of the best horses I ever had, had a little buck every morning. I’d saddle her up outside the horse barn, wrap the reins around the horn and cluck at her. She’d make her victory lap around the big with some big jumps corral and stop. That was it. It would take a month solid for her to quit that routine and she never bucked with me after she was broke. She was out of an old stud who had Wimpy on his papers and a grade mare that we thought had some Hancock or Blue Valentine. Her name was Rosebud, and she was really gentle too.
The ones I hate are those that will break in two at any time, even after a long day on the way back to the trailer or barn.
My neighbor bought a truckload of Brahma cross cows once. They were a real wakeup for a kid raised on Hereford cattle! I went to help him doctor scours and when you had a calf on the end of the rope they would come after you or your horse just about every time.

The funny thing is straight bred Brahman cows can be among the most docile of any cow you will ever meet, it is usually the crossbred ones that will put you up in the bed of your pickup truck … if not on top of the cab!

My old friend and former boss Jim Warren (nephew of Bill Warren, the first president of the AQHA), who is currently the manager of the Warren Ranch near Hockley, Tx tells the story of how when he was in the Marine Corps and stationed somewhere in the mid-west, maybe Kansas City, one of his buddies (a guy raised on a Hereford farm nearby) asked him about birth weights on their range cows. Jim said “Oh, I dunno. Maybe average 50 lbs?”

The guy was horrified that exact birth weights were not taken. So Jim asked exactly how do you get those weights? The guy said “Oh, it is really easy. Just get a bracket made that will fit in a stake pocket of your truck, then get a hanging scale with a cradle to put the calf in & you are all set”. Jim “enlightened” him on the disposition his mother cows and asked if the guy would come show him how to get these birth weights next time they had some leave. For some reason the guy declined!

BTW: The Warren Ranch was the site of the first horses to be inspected for registration when the AQHA was established. Unfortunately, they have phased out their horse breeding program. The “actual” first number issued, which was either 20 or 21, was issued to a stallion they owned named Pancho. The earlier numbers were issued to stallions as they “earned” the right to those premier numbers. Wimpy was awarded #1 by virtue of winning the 1940 Quarter Horse show at the Fort Worth Stock Show; an interesting bit of trivia.

[OldKat]

@Robert MoonShadow 5738 wrote:

Donn ~ I’ve read that thread on blinders – a couple of times. What I’m wondering though, is what are the indications that a certain horse might be better off with them than without? I’d definitely prefer my animal(s) didn’t have them on, but I’m not going to let MY personal preferences hinder the ANIMAL’S well being, neither. I just don’t know what to look for as indications.

Robert, this is an opposite case of what you are asking. Maybe it will help though. One of my mares, Maggie, gets very nervous when she hears something but can’t see it. Almost nothing rattles her, IF she can look at what ever it is that is making the noise. She has always been this way. Even if she is eating her feed from her trough, she wants to stop and walk to the edge of her stall everytime she hears a noise that she can’t identify.

She and the other mare, Rachel, were started in open bridles and then moved to bridles with blinders. While they were in open bridles she never had a problem. Regardless if she was single, hitched with Rachel or hitched with any other horse she was okay with whatever she was asked to do. As soon as the blinders were put on her she started getting nervous and acting up. This was wether she was single or part of a team or even when hitched three abreast. Take off the blinders and she is okay. Put them on and she has problems.

I have tried for nearly a year to get her “acclimated” to the blinders, but with little success. They still make her uptight. What should I do? I don’t know what everyone else will say, but I know what I am going to do … use an open bridle. Maybe that is whimping out on my part, but blinders just seem too stressful for her … so why use them?

[OldKat]

@Rod 5725 wrote:

Good replys but but not specifice enough. Should I try a stright bit? or any other suggestions. Most of the bits I find in my Meaders catalog are of the broken (jointed ) type. Any suggestions. I would love to solve this head throwing problem and if it’s the bit will try a diffrent style and quality.

I would (try a straight bit). I’ve never been afraid of doing things that others might think are a little bit unconventional. That is about THE ONLY advantage of living in an area where there are few, if any, others using work horses … THERE IS NO ONE AROUND TO TELL ME THAT I AM DOING EVERYTHING WRONG! (Then again, there are no bonafide mentors)

I say try whatever you think might work; what do you have to lose?

[OldKat]

@Jean 5572 wrote:

Ok, I am from the East, so please tell me what cow cake is and how can any cake be carried in my pocket? I love cake!

Jean

Jean,

I think Robert was pulling your leg just a little. Don’t know what they call “cake” in their area, but where I live it is cotton seed cake. This is the byproduct of what is left after they press cottonseed for the oil. The rest is processed into a slab or cake if you will. Excellent cow supplement, but horses can’t eat it. (it contains degosipol, but I may be spelling that wrong)

My guess is that “cake” varies from region to region as to whatever the locally processed grain (or oil seed) happens to be.

[OldKat]

Yes, I have. With saddle horses anyway. I learned, kinda like you have discovered, that cheap, poorly constructed bits can annoy some horses mouth so much that they didn’t want to pay attention to what I wanted them to do. You were smart to observe this.

I once came by a a bunch of aluminum bits that someone was getting rid of. Thought I had hit the jackpot until I found that they dried out my horses mouths so much that they couldn’t even make saliva! I threw the whole bunch of them away.

[OldKat]

@Legio3arty 5443 wrote:

What ever happened to the good old days when we provided the emotionally and mentally disturbed with care in an institutional setting rather than electing them to public office. Years ago here in Taxachusetts the PETA weenies managed to roll several individually ignorant pieces of legislation into what they call an omnibus bill. That’s the legal equivalent of putting a bunch of turds in the same bag. One outlawed the trapping of beavers. Another opened membership on the board that decides where the money from game licensing goes to people who never held a license or permit. The third outlawed the practice of using hunting dogs in the off-season to “hound” or scare away bears. They put on a big public dis-information campaign including pathetic footage of a fox caught in a leg-hold trap that had been illegal for twenty years. Despite being opposed by the Federation of Wildlife Biologists and just about every sane group involved, they managed to find enough morons in Metro-Boston to get it passed. The next year the beaver populaton exploded, wiping out trees that prevented erosion, damming ponds and culverts everywhere, and flooding wells. It just goes to show that a well intentioned idiot is more dangerous than someone who is evil. Voters who are uninformed or misled will gladly support someone who sounds like the mean well.

What he said about the beavers is true. I was in Mass. about 3 years ago on company business, for the company I used to work for. I was amazed to see bogs everywhere and when I said that I didn’t remember seeing them on previous visits the answer I got was exactly what he said about the law being changed to outlaw trapping them. I know from personal experience they can become a nuisance very quickly.

As to the license, fee or whatever …Yep just another sneaky tax. I’ve heard the same thing is being considerd at the federal level for cattle. $82.50 per head, annually to offset the methane produced by catlle. Not that it would cause the cows to produce less methane, but it is slick way for the money grubbers in D.C. to get deeper in your pocket. Hopefully this is just a crazy rumor, but owing to the bunch of inmates that are running the asylum up there it would not surprise me a bit.

Good luck in your efforts to get this nonsense knocked down in N.H.

[OldKat]

Well, this thread was certainly worth reading!

I generally stay away from political discussions in any forum, because the “my mind is made up, don’t try to confuse me with facts” mindset of much of our public drives me up the wall. I just love how people take selective events, issues or even positions on issues and “paint” the other side with disparaging labels; of course it outrages them when someone has the audacity to point out that their side of the aisle has “issues” as well!

The fact is that while both major parties have their warts and both have their good points, the overall reality is they are more alike than they are different. Take immigration for example. We all know that laws exist to prevent people from entering this or ANY other country in the world illegally. We all know there are laws against hiring illegal aliens, yet it has gone on unchecked for the past 20 or 30 years. Why? Because it served the interests of BOTH parties. The Republicans wanted to see cheap labor for industry. The Democrats wanted to turn them into potential new voters. So the reality is BOTH parties were willing to turn their backs on enforcing the laws as they exist. Why? Again, because IT SERVED THEIR RESPECTIVE INTERESTS.

Interestingly enough the current downturn, depression or whatever you want to label it has done more to send illegals back home than anything either party has EVER done. No jobs = no $$$, no $$$ = no reason to be here. People do what you give them an economic incentive to do. Give them a reason to break laws to work here and they will. Give them a reason to steal and they will, give them a reason to mooch off the public and they will. (I’m talking about ALL people here, not immigrants only) Give them a reason to be productive and guess what? They will do that, too.

Will Barrack Obama be a good President? I don’t have a clue, and in fact no one else does either. There are just too many unknowns. I know this much regardless of how much anyone tries to run him down or how much anyone else tries to gloss over his failures (yes, he is bound to have at least some) his record will speak for itself. Let’s get back together in 3 or 4 years and discuss this again, and I’ll bet some peoples views (if they are honest) will have changed. If we were to check in again in another 15 or 20 years after that we would probably get a truer picture of who he was and what he did or didn’t do that made a difference.

He will probaly NOT turn out to be as bad as Rush Limbaugh and others have tried to paint him and he will probably NOT turn out as great as MSNBC, CNN and the Hollywood elites have tried to paint him. He will probably fall somewhere in the middle, which is probably to be expected.

Either way, if any of you are putting all your hopes in ANY human … you are probably setting yourself up for a major disappointment. Problem is we are all just too human.

As for me, I still maintain that I like most cows and every horse I ever met better than most people I ever met. Therefore, I probably have disqualified myself from having an opinion about this subject.

[OldKat]

… since you have a spotted jack being shipped from Texas anyway. If you are 5’8″ and therefore looking to keep your animals on the smaller side; what about letting me load up about 15 or 16 feral donkeys (that are eating up all the grass, not to mention my hay on a place I lease) on your trailer and send them your way?

These guys are a cross between several BLM donkeys that the land owners adopted probably 15 to 20 years ago and some miniature donkeys that the neighbor brought onto his place. Some spotted, mostly the standard donkey look. Have trapped 31 of them so far and shipped them out; still have at least 15 or 16 to go. I just know that you would love them, although you better have some super tight fences to keep them on your place.

Because you are DAP poster (and even if you weren’t) I’ll let you have the whole bunch of them for EXACTLY $100.0 LESS than you are paying for your spotted jack! This one time only offer is open to anyone else as well, you pay for the Coggins test. Hurry and reply while they last!

[Author]

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