[OldKat]

@Robert MoonShadow 4885 wrote:

Thanks Rod! Great idea on the removable front wheel assembly. Is the front wjeel very helpful for stability and/or reducing tongue weight? I’m wondering what, if any, negatives for it are.

For what it is worth, I was talking to Doc Hammill last spring about this very subject and said I was thinking about building a three wheel forecart from Lynn Millers book. His take was that it is a VERY good cart for an experinced team to pull. He said he would NOT recommend it for a green team or a green teamster. He said it can be fairly easy to tip over.

Some of you guys that have experience with them can probably say if this has any basis or not. I didn’t build one, but am tickled this thread is running because I wanted to ask this very question yesterday or the day before.

Great thread!

[OldKat]

I love sharing my birds with the public, they are a great tool for teaching folks about agriculture and animal behavior (something many crazed parents should know how to handle but don’t). People often told me that it was so nice of me to bring the farm to the market and share a little of the good life with them.

This is a GREAT marketing concept, and sounds like a fun thing to do. Kudos to you for coming up with this. I’m going to keep this one in mind.

[OldKat]

@Michael Colby 4798 wrote:

Don’t get hung up on the breed. Instead, focus on the temperament, training and experience with the jobs you need performed. And if a seller tells you it can do something, ask to see it done. There are many, many good horses of all breeds and mixes out there. But there are also many, many horse sellers who can spin some magnificent yarns about breeds, lineage and the like. Phooey. Figure out what you want a horse/mule/donkey to do, find someone who knows what they’re doing to help you look, and then start looking — without your breed-blinders on.

AMEN! Very well said Michael.

[OldKat]

THAT LOOKS HARD TO DO! (… and a good way to kill yourself)

[OldKat]

@sanhestar 4674 wrote:

Wolfgang,

the idea of using rattan is great.

Do you have plans/pictures/blueprints of your yokes for “third world” use?

I’m checking ebay right now for cow collars. Got a nice one for 1 EUR plus freight (no leather work but wood and metall parts in good order still), I don’t think I will be that lucky again.

Yes, I ‘d like to see these myself. When I was a senior in college & while I was in grad school, the university I attended had a contract to train Peace Corps workers for agricultural production in 3rd world nations. One of the things I remember seeing them working on in the Ag. Mech. Shop was a simplified yoke. If I remember correctly they made everything from metal, but I’m going back 30 years here so I’m not quite sure.

Wolfgang, if I saw what you are talking about I could probbaly tell if it is a similar concept. Interesting, because I’ve never thought of this one time since then.

[OldKat]

@HeeHawHaven 4613 wrote:

Have any of you watched this video?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UXSA5Y/sr=8-1/qid=1231388681/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1231388681&sr=8-1&seller=

They take a green team of mules and show what they could do with them in 4 days in harness.

They use shoeing stocks to safely put on the harnesses. And, they immediately hook them up as a team to a forecart chained to a post. Then, they are hooked up to a tractor with an arm off the back and drag 2 large heavy duty tires behind the forecart. It is amazing what they accomplish in a relatively short time. By the 2nd day, they’ve unhooked the mules from the tractor and can take the team out on the rural highway shoulder (still pulling the big tires).

I’m curious how many of you experienced teamsters have watched this video and what you think?

I learned 2 main things from this video: (since I can’t replicate their methods exactly)

1. Do everything in a controlled safe environment first.

2. Have them start by pulling a heavy load so that they cannot run off!

BTW – I accidentally ordered this dvd twice…. if anyone wants one with little use, pm or email me – $20 bucks including shipping and it’s yours!

Dave

Hey Dave,

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like an interesting video. It is something that I find interesting to see the various unique approaches that people take to training animals. I think the trick is finding one that you are comfortable with and that works for you. Be sure to recognize that “one size does NOT always fit all”. Somethings that will work with one animal, or lots of animals may not click with another.

When my kids were still living at home we used a process similar to what you describe to break show steers and heifers to lead. Not that we had harness on them, or drug tires with them … rather that we started them haltered behind a tractor or a pickup. In my life (former high school ag. teacher) I have literally broken hundreds of calves to lead this way. Worked every time like a charm … EXCEPT … guess what? Two of the last three heifers that my daughter showed would NOT break this way. They would sull, lay down and refuse to walk. I think I could have drug all of the hide off of them and they were simply not going to submit to this process.

My daughter started putting the halter on them (this was two heifers, two years apart) and letting them walk on their own around the pens where we kept them. Soon she would start to hold the lead rope, but would walk no further up than their shoulder. She was essentially “driving them away”, by staying in their flight zone. After about 1/2 day she would move up to their head & within a day or two she was leading them. I would have never considered using this process, but it worked for her; it was far less stressful and they were HER calves. So I guess I learned something from her. Two years later we had an exact repeat with her last show heifer. That time I was far more willing to let her try it her way and it worked again. Point is, don’t get too married to any one process.

Finally let me say something else about training. That is that about this time last year I had two Percheron 3 year old mares in training with an Amish farmer in South Texas, maybe 3 or 4 hours drive from where I live. I have some experience driving, but not training driving horses so I elected to send them out for schooling. He used a similar approach to what you described in their training. He was driving them within a week or so of having them on his place. Not as a team, but each tied in to a much more seasoned and bigger Belgian mare & hitched to heavy loads that they could not run away with. I am NOT knocking this approach or the guys training skills. I am saying that when I got them back it was obvious to me that many of the basics that I should have made sure they were exposed to were skipped in their training.

Since I only have the two of them and no other seasoned horse to hitch to with, I have a low comfort level with putting them out on the highway or even in situations that are new to them. I DO NOT want them to encounter a slightly new or different situation and “talk each other” into bolting. Therefore, I am working them as singles and have been going through the 10 Step training process that Doc Hammill uses to train driving horses. (I am sure there are other good systems out there, that is the one that I am familiar with) Point is; I DO NOT want to take any shortcuts to training these mares because the stakes are pretty high. It could only take one bad experience to sour them for life, and I just will not accept that risk.

Not sure how experienced you are, or whether you live in an area where you can get experienced help (I have none near me), but be VERY cautious about the situation where you and your animals are learning from each other. That may work for you, generally it is not a good idea.

Not trying to belittle you, or scare you off from this great experience … just saying go super slow and easy with those youngsters. You can get in storm before you know it & no one wants to see that happen.

Good Luck to you & stay in touch.

[OldKat]

@drybranchfarm 4596 wrote:

Very nice, thank you for sharing. But I think you need longers handles on the plow. My back is killing me just watching that guy…:eek:

And nice looking oxen

I was thinking the same thing!

Bivol: I see that those oxen have a long barrel, long legs, white hair & black switch and are pretty tall. Have lyre shaped horns. Hmmmm, are those by any chance Italian White cattle (Chianina) or maybe a cross? Look to have a touch of bos indicus influence; but with no hump, little sheath and dewlap and not a whole lot of “ear”. Maybe a Chianina X with just a touch of Guzerat / Kankrej cattle?

[OldKat]

@Miles Jenness 4378 wrote:

My wife and I raised a couple of pigs last year and want to do it again this year,
this time with 4-6 pigs. We decided to get a dairy cow with friends of ours, for
the milk, the cheese, and primarily -for us- for the milk and whey for the pigs.
All of our pasture land -5 acres of ours and 13 acres of our friends- has been
laying fallow for 15 or 20 years, brush hogged once or twice a year -mostly
just once- and is pretty rough pasture. I’ve heard ayreshires are champs on
rough pasture but can be a little ornery. Does anybody have any advice or
suggestions as to ayreshires or another breed of cow that does well on rough
pasture? I’ve heard that milking devons do pretty well also.

thanks,
Miles and Caitlin

In what part of the country are you located? Makes a big difference as to which breeeds can adapt and which cannot.

[OldKat]

@sanhestar 4370 wrote:

Hi,

our climate is very different from Texas, I suppose 🙂

We live nearly 2000 ft. (600 meters?) high, in summer the temperature is seldom above 86°F – average is 78 to 83. The winters are cold and wet or cold and snow (often till April) – although we do feel the effects of global warming, too.

Sounds like a good fit.

[OldKat]

@Andre’ 4351 wrote:

I have a problem…. One of my geldings has a bum hock. My vet has found a rough spot on one of the non weight baring bones, to her it should not be bothering him this much. We are sending the x rays to the clinic in Syracuse for the big dogs to look at. I know I can’t afford any surgery. i have two options left. Find a clean dry run out situation and turn him out for a couple months to see if he can turn around on his own. Or the other option is a road I don’t want to travel. He is only five and one of the best horses I have ever had the pleasure to work with. My daughter drove him to two junior championship’s this summer. He is 18h and she can lead him anywhere. My niece threw a saddle on him at Addison fair for the first time and took second in a class of seven. A true gentle giant. Even when in pain this horse is a teddy bear. Pics of him are on the NEAPFD site.
He is the bigger dark horse in my hitch. This horse will do ANYTHING asked of him. I really want to see this horse live well. If anyone has any ideas or options please let me know! Call anytime 802-324-1190 or send an email Andre’ Palmer

Andre; are we talking a joint problem? or are we talking a bowed tendon here? Spavin, or what exactly are they calling it? I am going through that (bowed tendon) right now with my Red Angus herd bull. Came up with a tendon swollen the size of large carrot on his left inside hock last May, two days before he was to turn out with the cows. The vet said it is a 12 month proposition for bulls; 90 days to see if the swelling will go down, another 90 days for him to start to become mobile and another 180 days to see if he will fully recover. Most people will not give a bull that long to recover. My guy is worth it, because he is a truly exceptional individual and stamps out calves just like himself.

We are just past the half way point, and sure enough he is starting to get around with less and less of a limp. I am going to have to pull a couple of hundred pounds off of him before he can service the cows, but he is coming around. Sounds like you are now with your gelding where I was with “Mr Oklahoma” last May … and that was nearly sick to my stomach at the thought of putting him down or selling him as a slaughter bull. I started with a small pen, just big enough for him to lay down, stand and get water and eat from round bale feeder. About every 30 days I doubled the size of it until it finally got to be about 75 or 80 feet by 20 foot wide.

Now I turn him out with the horses one day in about an acre trap and then put him back in his pen the next day. Next I want to find about a 5 acre trap to put him in so he can start to gain strength in that leg. Unfortunately, none of the places I lease have a small pasture like that so I am still looking.

I guess the first thing is getting the pictures read at the clinic and then plan your course of action. If it is a tendon, I think you have a good shot at his recovery. Joint problems I am less sure of, but only speculating.

Good luck, & let us know what the pro’s say about the x-rays.

[OldKat]

I know nothing of this breed, other than what little I have read of them. They wouldn’t survive past about April or May where I live; they would literally overheat and quit eating. I would say their suitability to your region would be a case of how closely the weather in your slice of the world resembles the weather where they originated … Scotland, if I remember correctly. Not sure that I would want the extra work of body clipping an animal that size, but hey if that sort of thing appeals to you so be it. BTW: If you want a good primer on adaptability of cattle to their environment, a must read is Man Must Measure by Dr. Jan Bonsma. I’ve read that little book maybe 10 or 12 times over the years, and I ALMOST understand everything he wrote.

I can say that every time I see a picture of Highland cattle I am reminded how much they look like pictures that I have seen of the Auroch. For those not familiar with the Auroch; they are supposedly the wild ancestor of most cattle, at least bos taurus cattle. The last were hunted out of existence maybe 3 or 4 hundred years ago, but sketches exist of what they looked like and to me the Highland cattle look a lot like them.

Have fun with your project…

[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 4143 wrote:

I don’t worry about a cold horse, nor a wet horse, but a cold wet horse is another thing. My horses are out 24-7-365, with the exception of freezing rain.

I only blanket them if they are still sweaty after work, with a wool blanket to wick away moisture. Even -20, they are out, and they are always psyched to get out of the barn.

I think a wind break is a good idea, humane maybe. My turn out is on the leeward side of a small forested hill, which gives pretty good protection.

People who ask you questions like that are really just expressing their concern, and showing their lack of experience. If you get into the habit of coddling your horse because you think it’s cold, before you know it, you’ll be staying in the barn with her.

Carl

I guess being overly concerned beats not being concerned when we should be, but yeah hard to imagine a situation where horses could get too cold … given dry air and a wind break. I have read stories of horses freezing to death out on the plains, but I think that is usually in extremely, extremely cold weather & several days of it at that.

I do know a guy that was once the manager of a farm in Northeast Texas that raised Clydesdales. The owner was from Chicago, but was living in Dallas. The previous farm manager had told him that when it got below freezing that someone had to sit in the barn with the horses, to keep their water from freezing! He had (supposedly) been hiring local people and charging the owner time and a half for someone to sit out in the barn all night in cold weather. Me thinks no one was actually sitting out there; though just a guess! (Keep in mind that this is an area that seldom gets below the mid-teens even in the coldest of weather)

Wonder if that guy needs any help? I sure could stand to pick up a few extra bucks right about now!

[OldKat]

@bivol 4142 wrote:

here are a few videos from s. america

plowing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lzHeMovDHE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgJZiJcylmc&feature=related

The pair in the arado bueyes video appear to be maybe Brown Swiss x with a short eared bos indicus breed of some type. Can’t quite venture a guess on the others. Interesting looking country though.

[OldKat]

@Gulo 4082 wrote:

Hi Jennifer…

My personal feeling is that it is unnecessary and perhaps dangerous if done too early in the process (better have a real big field!) Later on it’s maybe just unnecessary. They are smart, but also such creatures of habit. Keep them in the habit of walking or trotting and eventually that’s all they’ll think of doing. Get them cantering and they’ll want to canter (at least my horses seem to be like this). I’d rather devote my time to more sacking out with all kinds of different scary things. Also, i like to take them out in the field and hobble train them in a situation where they want to go home or get startled.

I’ve seen teams working around the big steam tractor when the release valve goes (deafening!) get panicked, but even then they’re not full runaways, maybe just a fast trot or controlled canter.

This is only my opinion, but i think the bottom line is this – get them cantering in harness and yes, you will perhaps get them and you used to dealing with it, but the down side is you may also train them to want to do it.

My thoughts exactly.

[OldKat]

@Joel 4006 wrote:

Research forest mgmt in the SE US. Fire is used extensively as a management tool. Some pine down there will not regenerate, or even grow that well without frequent fires.

The USFS did a great dis-service with their Smokey the Bear campaign & the idiots in NM a few yrs sent prescribed burns to the dear letter office with their fiasco.

I understand none of this adresses your question but fire mgmt in the SE US is very interesting.

I agree; fire can be a very good tool in SYP (southern yellow pine) stands to control underbrush. In my state such use had nearly gone extinct due to a number of reasons, including public pressure to NOT burn in state and national tracts. It is on the upswing for sure.

Not familiar with any SYP species that REQUIRE fire, but know that all benefit from the open areas it creates for increased sun and water. Also, when many of the brushy under story plants are suppressed it clears the way for hardwood species, which tend to benefit wildlife.

Not exactly the purpose of this thread, but fire can be a powerful tool if managed correctly. Nearby to where I live is a vast creek bottom system which is populated in Eastern gamma grass, an excellent native grass for areas that are heavy soil and seasonally wet. This particular stand is said to be the largest native stand of this grass in the US, some 2,000 to 2,200 acres. A few years ago a friend harvested some seed from his piece of this stand & planted it in an additional 40 to 45 acre field just outside the area where the native stand already existed. Although he prepared the soil and drilled the seed in with a drill specifically designed for native grass seeds, the resulting stand was fairly poor. For several years the stand slowly filled in, but it was still probably less than 50% covered in gamma grass. One winter several years ago some friends and I helped burn this field off just before it greened up. The gamma grass responded really well and that spring the coverage went up to probably 90%. Not sure why it did this, but the results were dramatic.

[Author]

Posts