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- October 25, 2009 at 11:46 pm in reply to: To All Who Try To Sell Others On The Idea Of Sustainable Farming, Forestry. #54752
simon lenihan
Participantbumpus,
I really can not understand where you are going with this tread, if folk post something on this forum that i can not understand i have the means to contact them through a private message on this forum. I do not think getting other folk involved [ voting ] is the answer, just my 2 cents worth.
simon lenihanParticipanthttp://www.cloveroaksfarm.com, joyce is the only breeder of ardennes in the us, it is a few years since joyce rang me looking for a blue roan filly, i hope i pointed her in the right direction. I along with many loggers here and across europe and scandinavia think the ardennes horse to be far superior to anything else, even horses 2 hand higher and heavier. The ardennes will work very steep ground and is very sure footed and when it comes down to level ground they hold their own wit the biggies. I am biased so it is best to give a few examples. Jim Johnstone is the only horselogger in scotland and a big clydesdale man, his clydes were 17.2hh and 900kg approx, he came and visited us on site 6 years ago and within a couple of months two ardennes were on there way to scotland, Tom nixon from ireland a good friend went and visited jim in scotland, Tom has kept and worked shires in the woods in ireland for years, shires are gone replaced by a 14.3hh ardennes mare. The list goes on. There are some very old blood lines still left in belgium, though alot less than 10 years ago, there are still a few small farmers who breed the old original type of 15hh / 16hh and use them for forestry. One particular small farmer [ rena bodart ] is one such farmer, he along with his friend philip head to the woods once the farm chores are done. They have a contract of 200 tonnes a week with a german sawmill, this is done by 2 ardennes. I am amased that they are not more popular in the us, i know ardennes were exported to the us and canada 100 years ago and i have shown pics of my horses to some eldery canadians who recognised them from when they were kids on the farm, i suppose they were thought to be too small.
simon lenihanParticipantHanging on by the skin of our teeth, had to leave one of the boys go due to the lack of work. I found it very upsetting at the time and still do, this lad of mine came to the wood during his school holidays when he was 7 years of age and was working a pair of stallions when he was 16. I find it upsetting in a time when there is so much talk about the enviroment, low carbon footprint, preserving rural skills that the forestry organizations turn a blind eye to timber harvesting with horses. I fret at being out of work but can not comprehend losing our way of life.
simon lenihanParticipanthttp://www.svenljunga-sadelmakeri.se.
simon lenihanParticipant@Scott G 11162 wrote:
All,
I have allowed almost a month to make sure that we received as much input as possible. Truth be known; after the first week the response has been nil. Assuming that I have received all responses from folks that are motivated and interested in this effort, it is time to move forward with the next step. I know that there are many personal/ business demands, chores, and efforts ongoing at this time of year. Due to that fact, I again will leave this open for some time to ensure getting everyone’s input and vote.
I have gathered all votes for the questions posed to the group concerning name of effort, mission statement, and preliminary goals. They are ranked in order of most votes received.
Next task, vote for the final choice(s). Vote for 1 name, 1 mission statement, and 5 formative goals. Once these selections have been made I will post the results, make a motion to adopt, and we move on. At that point we can tweak the wording, but the content and context will remain the same. Please remember that the goals are foundation driven and give us a point of focus. Once we have measurable success/movement on those goals we can broaden them and add additional goals as the formative committee sees fit.
Same as last time; please cut and paste for ease of organization on my part.
For now let’s vote…
2) Throw out some names for the effort. Ideally ones that could carry over into the eventual association. Key words could/would be; draft, forestry, logging, powered, animal, international, etc.
Vote for one
“International Draft Animal Forestry Initiative (IDAFI)” (5 votes) (Scott comment: Think about the acronym!)
3) Mission statement. This should be 1-3 sentences at most.
Vote for one
“To promote positive impact forest management using draft animals and appropriate technology” (5 votes)
4) Goals. List five goals, in order of priority, for this effort. Clear, concise, and limited to one complete sentence.
Vote for five
”To advance an ecological perspective of forest management, based on the use of draft animals, and other low impact/low input strategies.” (5 votes)
”Share techniques and strategies.” (4 votes)
”To improve opportunities for draft animal forestry practitioners to unite regionally, and internationally, to share information, work, markets, and advocacy.” (4 votes)
“To develop some sort of state or regional organization to help with training new and upcoming horse loggers Get more awareness to the general public find and promote new ways to use animal power to enhance our forest world wide!” (4 votes)
”Work with researchers to study and publish ecological benefits of animal logging.” (3 votes)
September 6, 2009 at 8:46 pm in reply to: What do you all figure it cost you to put out wood ? #53166ParticipantThe same study today would probably be double, its better off i do not know, it would drive me mad.
simon lenihanSeptember 6, 2009 at 2:11 pm in reply to: What do you all figure it cost you to put out wood ? #53167Participantscott mentioned about spreadsheet for calculating stumpage rates, well about 15 years ago i sat down with the head of the forestry contractors association to develop a fair system of payment based on what it actually costs to put a tonne of timber roadside. Fifty horseloggers participated in a survey of what their daily costs were, depreciation, saws, horses, vehicles, etc, etc. This was a very comprehensive study and all data went to dublin where it was inputed in to a programme that was set up specially for this study. The study was based on an average extraction distance and merchantable timber, the cost per tonne came out as £23.00, i never exceded
£13.00 that year. All we did was work longer hours to compensate for this and always thinking that good times were around the corner.
simon lenihanParticipantgeir,
i have seen pics in hastkrafter magasine, so there is someone in sweden operating one doing exactly what you propose to do.
simon lenihanParticipantOur forwarder will load a 300 board foot log, however they were not designed for loading very large logs and were designed for the softwood market of which we rely on here to make a living as do the horseloggers in scandinavia. Anyone handling large volumes of softwood are nearly all working horsedrawn forwarders now, not as a choice but as a necessity. we mostly work conifers this side of the pond and the current log and chip prices are at an all time low, £25/ £30 for sawlogs and £10 for chipwood, we need to shift large volumes to stay in business. In southern sweden horse loggers like jan bong and linus elmirid work their horseforwarders in conjunction with a small timberjack processor. I visited jan this year and while he was working in extracting pulp wood from a spruce thinning his colleague was finishing off a 500 tonne pine thinning with the processor. The processor will cut the equivilant of what 4 men with chainsaws will cut and therefore the economics will always favour the processor, i know folk will say that this is not enviromentaly friendly but the money is not in the product to allow any other method than mentioned. There are several companys in sweden manufacturing horse drawn forwarders and one company in finland. They usually come in 2 sizes, single for 1 horse and a capacity of 2 tonnes and double with a capacity from 3 to 5 tonnes, they weigh from 700kg to 1500 kg, the lifting capacity varies from 350kg for some of the singles to 1000kg for some of the bigger doubles. The finnish forwarder comes with small drive motors in the back wheels to assist the horses when going uphill and nearly all are fitted with hydraulic brakes on the back, however jan’s has also disc brakes fitted on the front. Prices start at £12000 for some of the singles and £16000 to £18000 for the doubles. J-L mentioned about other uses, there are many, we have moved large round bales of hay and silage with it, you can get galvanized sheeting and fit it inside the pins and you have a trailer for firewood, small square bales of hay and also loose hay, etc.
simon lenihanParticipantThinning larch in a semi ancient natural woodland, rain, rain and more rain another disasterous summer.
simon lenihanParticipantI worked on my own for 15 years before my eldest son joined me, i worked the most inhospitable woods as they were the only woods available to us at the time. I never thought of the work being dangerous, just got a good buzz from working steep ground. In hindsight i now realise how dangerous it actually was and when it comes to my sons doing the same work today i am so paranoid. I always insist on two of them working together and to stay in phone contact if they are working another wood. There has been a number of test cases over the past few years in regards to loggers working alone where the company awards the contract to a firm who in turn sub contract out to a sole contractor, the company then trys to stop the contract on the grounds of health and safety, as far as i know they have not being successfull in stopping contractors working alone. However you have to meet the following requirements[ for insurance purposes ] in order to be allowed to work alone. Insurance aside anyone working alone should also adhere to these reuirements.
1/ mobile phone contact every 30 minutes to a partner or a colleague, there are also companys who for a small fee will contact you through your mobile phone or a reciever .
2/ First aid kit on logging belt.
3/ carry whistle in pocket
4/ walky talky,reciever can be left in house of neighbour adjacent to wood
5/ Always know your grid reference, nearest hospital / doctor / ambulance, this should be part of a risk assesment and carried on your self, if trapped / injured you can relay these to the emergency services.
6/ In the case of no phone signal you can diall [ 112 ] it will get you through to emergency numbers.
simon lenihanParticipantTaylor, nice pics, is that a farmer brown logging arch?.
simon lenihanParticipantHe could have spotted something that spooked him, smelt something in the undergrowth, teeth could be giving him problems and the list goes on, horses are unpredictable and flight their first defence. We have a 13 year old stallion that has not put a hoof wrong in the last 10 years, we have worked in areas that puts any horse to the test, mountain tops where fighter jets whizz by, worked in a quarry where they blasted with dynamite 3 times a day, yet a month ago he bolted with my son on his back while riding past a bush on the track side, my son ended up in hospital with pulled muscles around his heart. I spoke to the woman that runs the near by riding school, she told me that she has encountered the same problem, all her horses will shy away as they pass this bush, some will stop and have to be coaxed past. I have checked this bush for dead carcases, plastic, glass that could trow a reflection and nothing. It just goes to show how little we understand what makes their mind tick.
simon lenihanParticipanthi suomi,
Miika afelt is a professional horselogger who work in and around helksinki, he designed the forwarder we now operate. Henry rawstrone is a horse logger who moved to finland from the uk a few years back, i still think he runs horse logging courses and would be a good contact for horses should you decide to purchace in the future. Henrys has a website and he will be able to give you miikas number, [ http://www.heikkilahorsefarm.com ]
regards, simonParticipantjason, i have contacts in finland / sweden / estonia / and other european countries who log with horses, i will make contact and ask for their input.
simon - AuthorPosts