[Stable-Man]

This certainly makes sense. It’s a way to try out the work without giving up the other occupation. I’m wondering if the youth here in the US wouldn’t be so against it if they saw you could make a good time of it, but this is kind of discouraged.

[Stable-Man]

@Simple Living 23239 wrote:

If fuel prices stay elevated and/or rise to the $5.00/gal range, would that not force the general public to buy things local?…CNN (communist news network) FOX, and the rest of the fear mongers would lead you to believe. In the long run, maybe even a good thing.

Gordon

In the long run yeah, but in the short run it’ll be quite creepy to live in places that depend on cars, so in that respect “fear mongering” might just be the truth. After about forty years of ridiculous outward development here, planners are finally realizing the problems and a lot of apartments, etc, are cropping up along the metro lines and these are mixed use with grocery stores, gyms, and other stores built in so people drive less. But the rent is more expensive than suburb-like housing, and the zoning is a little loose so companies were still building out until housing collapsed. It’s a scary prospect how many people might lose homes and the like because they still have to work that distant job and pay for the fuel.

[Stable-Man]

High gas gridlocks everything around here. As a suburb, you pretty much need a car to get anywhere within a “resonable” amount of time. Goodness forbid someone should have to break out the bicycle. Back when it was over $4 everybody was conscious and turning off engines at stoplights, etc. As I see it, eventually we’ll need a lot more labor on the land, accept high gas prices, or come up with some alternate which will probably be equally expensive to gas.

[Stable-Man]

The Chinese also managed to feed at least 400 million on less land with organic methods, something a lot of people consider impossible these days.

[Stable-Man]

@dominiquer60 22724 wrote:

I went to keep our support of raw milk and the direct sale of raw milk. The raw milk was a bit of a struggle, but after a one on one meeting between a large western NY dairy farmer with a young eastern NY hopeful raw milk farmer, an agreement was made and the next day carried out on the delegate floor. I can proudly announce that the NY Farm Bureau now supports our state Ag Dept. to continue the NY Certified Raw Milk Program and the the direct sales of Raw Milk.

It was a worthwhile trip because I also was able to gain the support of the use of animal power for agricultural purposes and transportation, which I discuss on another thread.

Thanks for all of the great info, I certainly increased my knowledge of Raw Milk and was well armed for a debate that we were fortunate enough to not get into.

Erika

Ah, I love this stuff. Haven’t been around a while and come back to see a win. 😀

[Stable-Man]

The first plan looks doable, and is about the same dimensions of the upper two stories of my house. If you intend to have two kids and they turn out different genders I’d remove that sitting area and make it into another bedroom. I slept in a bedroom for 20 years of about 10×10. 4 people in 1000sf was common in the ’50s, it just might be a little tighter than one is used to.

[Stable-Man]

@OldKat 20006 wrote:

Fair enough. Specifically what I was asking though is how would the process work (in your mind) where we would go from where we are now to where we would be if there were, as you said, people are living on 80 acre tracts?

Eh, what it comes down to is individual choice. But say we have enough interest; already, there are a fair number of farms with intern/job opportunities. Long term employees or interns could then be given a portion of the land, or buy at a discount or something, as long as it’s large enough to suit needs, but of course the owners would need to be opened to that idea. Interested children also get their share of the land. I don’t think the idea is far from possible as I imagine some farmers know by now of the disinterest in the field.

My thinking really hasn’t gone that far since the first part is not yet achieved. :confused:

[Stable-Man]

@OldKat 20000 wrote:

Just curious Stable-Man; how would you see something like that coming about? (The redistribution of urban and suburban population to rural areas that is)

I pretty much see it the way dls and bivol see it: the availability of things that make modern ag would have to surpass production costs or disappear before anyone made it a priority. It’s been mentioned in other discussions, but integration of agriculture in schools is dead in suburbs and cities, public and private; therefore, nobody except very few would even think to consider it as a career. In my county students have to volunteer 75 hours to graduate from high school, and while volunteering at a CSA nearby I met a couple of students, so opening up more opportunities that way is another route. This is also good because you aren’t just pulling weeds or harvesting in the sun, but have the option of interaction with, potentially, people your own age and it isn’t so much a chore anymore. It’s sad to hear kids in college and upper grade school referring to farmland as the “end of civilization” when really it’s the beginning, but they have no way of appreciating it.

[Stable-Man]

@bivol 19968 wrote:

why just don’t shift the surplus workforce back to the farming? what’s the problem, if a lot of people go self-sufficient, the government wil be unable to conrtol their substinence, and that’s how people are controled today.
the problem i see is that in a democracy, if one party says “we have to reduce energy consumption”, the other will say “no we don’t vote for us!” just so they get to the power, no matter the real needs.
what is needed is a consensus of both parties, but no political party will actually bite the hand of those who feed them. no, i’m not talking about voters, i’m talking about big bussiness.

reduction in energy is needed for everything. we all use so much energy we think life without it is impossible!
just like a kid who knows who to calculate, but he has relied on a calculator his entire life, so now he has to calculate something by hand, he’s afraid, because he’s never done it (he has relied only upon the calculator), although he knows he’d be able to do it.

It’s a possible solution, though I think we already have enough people in the US to populate the countryside to 80 acres/family like many of us here would like to see.

And good post up above the one quoted here

[Stable-Man]

@bivol 19766 wrote:

i’l try to read though all the pages, just cought up, but i can’t miss this part!

a similar thing happened in istria, where an old farmer and Boskarin lover kept his cattle in traditional wooden stables in the countryside.

now, istria is becoming more of a tourist destination with rich people buying pitoresque traditional farms stables and converting them to weekend houses.

so, this old man’s stable was “semi-deteached” to another stable that was bought by some well-standing man (think a foreigner), and he started complaining to the old farmer that he sould get rid of the cattle because they stink and bellow. the old man told him:” these cattle were here well before me, and well before you. they have the right of stay.”

so the guy backed off, there was no way he could make the ld man give up his cattle, legally or otherwise.

the prices are sky-rocketing there, too. with same consequences.

This is an annoying situation, and all it takes is for one expatriate or rich person to start the move toward sleep or vacation or weekend communities. I just read an article about Bulgaria and all the British semi-retired people moving in, and no doubt they will renovate and eventually resell, driving up the prices. They want a slower lifestyle which apparently can’t be achieved at home. A situation I see close to home (and this is sort of unrelated) is a few people in the run-down Appalachian towns (formerly mining/manufacturing towns) try to revitalize by bringing in tourist traps, especially art oriented businesses, resulting in a few minimum wage jobs. This isn’t going to prop up a community that just lost thousands of jobs or even begin to cover the problems, and even long term it’s a poor choice.

Growth economics, too, is sort of a losing game. We need to grow the economy for the growing workforce…but if you don’t have a growing workforce, there’s no need for more jobs. So far we don’t account for environmental degradation in the GDP (check out Herman Daly’s books for info on that). Our electrical demand is going up and what people don’t seem to realize is we need to mine material for our solar panels and wind turbines and rebuild infrastructure to deliver it. We use so much oil in everything that life without it is incomprehensible.
😀

[Stable-Man]

Have had this in my favorites but only listened to the first part so far. It’s great to have the recorded narratives of the past.

[Stable-Man]

@Ixy 19455 wrote:

If you really want the best from your pasture and to cut down on your work and inputs, you ahve to basically just leave it alone and let the soil get back to it’s own natural cycling – winter conditions are part of that. The way I see it is that cattle and grassland have evolved together for thousands upon thousands of years perfectly well without human intervention and we can’t possibly know better than that! We may think that doing X, Y or Z would improve it, but we always overlook some tiny detail that makes it unsustainable in the long term, and we’re always going to have to revert to the default system that nature devised….

This makes sense, but what do you do with the 2 months of bedding? Or are they fed out in the open?

[Stable-Man]

@lancek 19420 wrote:

Thats tearable that is the problem with higher education just like most other things in this world they put greed above everything else!If your looking for an apprentiship come join us in mo we have plenty of work and beutiful setting here in the ozarks it actuly reminds me of Vermount!

I may take you up on that. Currently I’m trying to find a farm closer by as an alternate to continuing college.

[Stable-Man]

@dlskidmore 19447 wrote:

Part 4 there gets into one of my favorite agricultural topics: hedgerows. Although the hedgerow spotlighted appears to be a wildlife row rather than a stockproof one. There will definitely be a hedgerow experiment on my farm, to see if any plants native to this area can build as good a system as the English and Scottish hedgerows. I already have a small row planted in my little city place, but I doubt they will be mature enough to produce haws before we move.

The Amish believe that. It is the primary motivation for their restrictions on technology. That’s also why they allow generators and batteries, but not power lines. Dependence on the city over family and neighbors is discouraged.

It’s amazing the possibilities of the whole system, one of a few things in life that I am giddy to learn–and eventually try. Right now, unfortunately, except for composting and erosion control, it’s all in my head. It surprises me that more people my age aren’t interested at all. Surburban, city, and rural alike, seems like we’re still managing to draw even more of the dwindling numbers away.

As far as Amish, it’s one of a few things I appreciate about the little sect, also an excellent marketing strategy. Just the other day saw a commercial for Lancaster Co. and they’re the biggest draw, although when I drove through I didn’t see a single buggy.

To some extend, I see the point of housing cows in the winter. Soil microbial activity slows in areas with cold winters and the manure isn’t going to be as effective; therefore you bed it down over winter and let it compost, spread last year’s on the field in late spring or early fall, though that’s just what I’ve read.

[Stable-Man]

With that few cows a person could milk by hand, forgo the fancy equipment that I guess runs off of diesel or electricity, but that’s not sterile enough:rolleyes: A dairy would be better as a part of a larger farm scheme. An old book I have says dairying should be done in a smaller, more intensive operation because of the labor involvement. It was one part of a diversified operation…well, at least that’s what the book advocated.

Another interesting point from that book is the transition from buggy to car; people took the issue seriously. Car=greater distance possible, and that, they believed, would dismantle little communities. Not sure whether that happened or not….

[Author]

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