[Traveling Woodsman]

Sounds like there’s a lot of good ideas being bounced around, but I thought I would throw in an extra one or two for kicks. First off, I keep 2 or 3 different length and taper wedges with me. I use the leather wedge pouch from Bailey’s, I’m sure there are other good ones out there. I have a military surplus ammo belt that I put it on that also has my log tape and a few little tool pouches attached to it. But yeah, I keep some 8″ wedges with a more taper for smaller trees and when I want more lift in distance. Then I have some 10″ wedges that have significantly less taper than the 8″ and usually end up stacking them at right angles to each other to get the really big ones down. And just like has already been said, where you place your wedge has a huge effect on how much lifting force you are exerting on the butt of the tree. The farther away from the hinge the more mechanical advantage you have.

But then there are the trees that are just a total nuisance, and somewhere along the way I got to thinking there had to be a better way. Which is when I read about tree jacks. Now they have tree jacks in Bailey’s that run $2,000 or more, and I quickly decided it wasn’t worth it. 🙂 And I kept thinking and decided to check out the local tool store, where I ran into a 20 ton low profile jack. I actually also have a 32 ton and an 8 ton, but the 20 ton lo pro gets used the most, and I still haven’t run into but maybe 1 or 2 trees that it couldn’t jack over. I don’t have a picture, but here’s a link to the manufacturer’s site. http://bigredjacks.com/ourproducts/product.cfm?ItemNO=T92007 They are about $50.

So all you do is make a notch in the rear right or left side of the tree and slide the jack in. Put it on whichever side is the “danger” side. To make the notch for the wedge, plunge in from the side and from the rear of the stump. then cut out the pie shaped piece you created. Depending on how tall you left your stump, and whether you are cutting on a hill side, you may have to make your notch go partway into the butt log. Of course that may not be desirable, but I find that especially if I decide before I start cutting that I will use a jack, you can really reduce the number of times that your notch will impinge on your butt log.

You have to weld a thick plate onto the top of the jack so that it jacks and doesn’t just compress the wood fiber. It takes a little getting used to, but it is so much easier to pump a jack than spend 45 mins or an hour banging on wedges. I can actually say that I have never had to to that since I started using jacks. I am actually a little “jack happy”, if I have to bang more than a few minutes, I just pull out the jack cause it’s so much easier. And I start thinking differently too about where to lay the tree if I know that I can just pop the jack in and make it go anyway I want. You can really save yourself a lot of fooling around with your horses or cattle by putting trees where you want them.

So there it is, I say try out the jacks. I’m interested to hear about other people’s experiences with jacks.

[Traveling Woodsman]

What kind of quick links do you use?

[Traveling Woodsman]

Ditto on locust.

[Traveling Woodsman]

@Carl Russell 17568 wrote:

In fact it is nice sometimes to be able to adjust that without having to undo the strap.

Carl

Yeah I guess if you find you need to adjust your hames regularly then it would be nice not to have to undo them. My situation is such that I use the same collar and harness for a particular horse continually so I do not need to make that adjustment hardly ever. It’s far more pain for me to constantly be sliding the hame loop to the proper spot than to un-do the strap every few years or more. But whatever floats your boat, it’s not gonna make or break you. 🙂

Do you guys have balls on your WH hames?

[Traveling Woodsman]

I bought a pair of Andrus hames a few summers ago, I was getting my colt set up and my two other harnesses already had hames. They were kind of expensive (~$200), but I really like them and I think I will get another pair if I can to match cause they’d pretty much last forever. They are lighter then tubular steel pulling hames, but heavier than regular farm hames. They only make one size hame, and it can fit 4 different collar sizes. I believe they make 2 shapes.

I like ’em cause they’re light for their strength, they don’t rust or require any care, double hame strap loops, and the top hame strap stays in place and can’t move on you like my steel pulling hames and farm hames do. Jason mentioned something about his being funny up there, I must have a different design.

[Traveling Woodsman]

@Matthew 16643 wrote:

My property was logged with skidders about 13 years ago before I bought the land. It was a typical cut it off then sell the land deal. My question is really three questions.

(1) The trees I have in the photos are just a example of what is on all the skid roads they were bumper trees and took a real beating. Do you think that they should be cut because the rot will just continue to go higher up the tree or does it just rot the bottom and the log a few feet up will still be good. I have at least a truck load of just these skidder scarred trees.

(2) When I hear the term cut the worst first what exactly does it mean worst first, does worst mean rotting, over mature, low value, low grade?

(3) I burn alot of firewood (outdoor woodboiler) about 9 cords a year I have 57 acers wich about 50 is wooded for in the past I have cut mostly fallen trees or stading dead ones a no brainer to figure they had to go I now want to start culling some live hardwoods but am not shure witch to cut. Do I want to cut anything that is crooked and will never be a straight log, or do I cut straight trees that are worth less money as logs. A example would be if I have a straight hickory next to a less straight red oak do I take the oak or the hickory figuring you can some day get a log out of both trees.

I don’t claim to be an expert, but I will throw out some of my thoughts and hopefully others can expand some.

1) You should cut the rub trees. Trees that have been damaged like the ones in your pictures spend a large quantity of their resources covering those rubs, resources that would otherwise go to growing lumber. This classifies them as “worst”. Hopefully there are good younger trees close to the ones you’d be taking that would be released, but even if there aren’t it could possibly send some sunlight to the forest floor that could help regenerate some shade intolerant species.

2) My view on “worst” is that it relates to potential future value. So yes, worst means rotting, over mature and low grade. There are 3 categories of indicators that determine whether a certain specimen is “worst”: damaged, diseased, or inferior. “Damaged” is self-explanatory, skidder rub, lightning strike, frost crack (wind shake), wind damage and such. “Diseased” is also self explanatory. “Inferior” is not so self explanatory, but includes such considerations as soil type, slope, aspect, topography, moisture level and forest type when determining if a certain specimen is optimized for the site it’s on, which is what we’re trying to achieve. And growing clear defect-free lumber from that optimized specimen. For instance, you wouldn’t want to grow white pine in a mountain cove with lots of moisture and deep soil, because other, more valuable trees do well on those sites.

So to address question 3, the answer about whether to cut the oak or the hickory would include considerations such as what the specific site is optimized for growing. And too, what your specific goals are. If your goals are to provide a sustainable supply of firewood and grow the largest amount of clear, defect-free, high-value lumber that you can, I would consider leaving the red oak (barring major defects) and taking the hickory for firewood. This would do two things: one, it would free the red oak to grow (assuming they are next to each other like you said), and two, it would provide you with good hickory firewood. The red oak is generally worth much more than hickory, in fact one local mill here pays more for the lowest grade of red oak than the highest grade of hickory. And hickory has more BTU’s per cord than red oak, and I believe more than any other species, at least around here. So there’s my initial thoughts

The discussion about worst-first selection is really a rather large-scale one, involving silvicultural systems, silvics, and other factors related to forest management.

Some of the ideas I mentioned are brought out in the article “Nature’s Tree Marking Paint” found on http://healingharvestforestfoundation.org/. Look under “HHFF Documents”. This says a little more about these concepts, and there are plenty of good books out there related to this too, if you’re interested.

[Traveling Woodsman]

I like this discussion, all of the different perspectives and regionally distinctive approaches represented get a guy thinking.

I like the idea of some sort of community ownership of a bigger piece of equipment, although there are many challenges associated with a setup like that. My situation here in the mountain and valley region of the state is somewhat unique in that there are often huge tracts on the side of mountain that are only accessed by a skinny haul road. In fact, the mountains here in VA where I work represent some of the most challenging site conditions that I have experienced anywhere in the country. These are not roads you could get any kind of log truck on, and lots of them you couldn’t even get a pickup on. And of course the best timber is always the farthest out from a paved road. It is situations like this that would require some kind of forwarder to harvest in a timely fashion. The first job I did myself I ended up skidding most of the job over a mile, and there was more timber even farther away than that. If any of you have done that then you know that it just doesn’t work. And a significant number of jobs I look at have a similar situation, which is even different from other horse loggers close by. So I am looking into any method of being productive on longer haul distances. The horse drawn forwarders are intriguing, but the biggest problem is the capacity of the loaders. The big oaks, poplars and maples that grow in the deep coves on these mountainsides often reach 3-5 feet dbh, something that can’t be handled by any of the loaders I’ve seen.

If we had reliably cold and snowy winters, then sleds and similar tools would be a good way to go, but that is just not the reality in this part of the country (although this year it would have worked very well 🙂 ). And sleds and scoots are not a historical method in this region either, either with or without snow.

I guess some kind of smaller loader could work if you had a different system set up for the really big logs.

Taylor, yes I remember slogging around in that mud pond. We spent way too much time on those jammers, from a certain perspective it would have been better to wait ’till we could have used the skid steer. But that is not always an option.

On my first few jobs I did all of my stacking by hand. And like Taylor alluded to, I spent a very large proportion of my time stacking logs. In my situation I found it to be very hard to make a go of it with this system.

Thanks everyone for the input, good stuff to think about.

[Traveling Woodsman]

Carl, what was the motivating factor behind your decision to forego equipment? How does it affect your ability to do big logging jobs? Or maybe you don’t get any big jobs.

[Traveling Woodsman]

Rick, so do you just use it for sorting and stacking? No log truck loading?

[Traveling Woodsman]

Wow, I just bought a horse trailer from a guy in Mountain View. That’s a cool area with the Uinta’s in the distance. I almost did a big dam overhaul job for the Forest Service up in the Uinta’s, but politics and other junk ended up getting in the way. And I really love the Winds too, they are a very unique range.

I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that I’d end up back out there at some point, if I do I’ll have to look you up.

[Traveling Woodsman]

I had a lot of fun living and working in Wyoming. I actually lived in the Green River Valley, near Pinedale. Our work took us up toward the Hoback quite a bit. It’s such different country than back here, there’s things I like about both. The mountains out there are so cool, I did get to climb several while I was out there, including Gannett Peak.

I worked with an experienced horse logger there named Doug Strike, who has logged with horses in WY for about 35 years. He’s knows his stuff. He lives near Pinedale too.

Where are you at J-L?

[Traveling Woodsman]

@Rick Alger 15881 wrote:

What I saw looks great, but it wouldn’t fully load. I’m on dial up so it’s probably my problem, but anyway I thought I’d let you know.

Good to know, thanks.

[Traveling Woodsman]

I personally have a Hobart (Miller) AC/DC stick welder and an oxy/acet rig for cutting and heating. I also use the torch as my portable welder since I’m not rich enough yet to afford an engine welder. 🙁 I sometimes find it necessary to repair/modify logging equipment in the field, and the torch works all right. It is harder to use, but that’s the way everything used to be welded. It’s a good skill to have, even if you don’t use it a whole lot.

The DC capabilities really help in positional welding. Can require another learning curve though.

I did a lot of MIG welding when I worked at BBar Ranch, they’re pretty nice to use. They tend to be somewhat more finicky, mostly related to the wire feed, guess you don’t get something for nothing.

6013 rod works good as mentioned, but 7014 also makes a nice, clean weld. It’s a little stronger too. 7018 is the rod to use in high stress situations, but it’s harder to use. Get good with easier rods first.

My experience is that flux-cored wire gives significantly mores splatter than conventional gas shielded wire. I have read about and fiddled with settings all day long, and couldn’t get it to go away, but I did reduce it. My two cents….

[Traveling Woodsman]

@Scott G 15820 wrote:

Great site, Ben!

I added your link to my site and the DAPF contact site.

One suggestion, you may want to make it so that your outside links open in a new window. Otherwise when people start visiting the other links and start exploring from there they navigate away from your site and can get lost. If a link is opened in a new window and they close it, you’re still there! A bit of marketing…

Take care,
Scott

Thanks for the tip, I’ll do it.

[Traveling Woodsman]

@dominiquer60 15812 wrote:

It looks nice and gives some well explained information. Did you do it yourself? What software did you use? I am currently getting text and pictures together for a site for our farm, but I don’t care for the restrictions of my mac iweb program so any suggestions would be appreciated. I definitely like the way yours is put together and it is easy to navigate.

Good work,

Erika

I did do all of it myself, and it probably wouldn’t have happened if I had not been forced by my doctor to sit all day. It was engaging in certain ways though, just different than skidding logs all day with my team. 🙂

I actually did all of it on iWeb on my MacBook Pro. The templates are highly modified (mostly used “blank” templates). As you can see I came up with my own color scheme and layout, I pretty much retained just the navigation bar from the template. I know iWeb is not the most flexible or powerful software out there, but for me it works good because it’s easy to use and is seamlessly integrated with the rest of my computer, making it very easy to modify/update the site. Once I get mobile again (start walking) I probably won’t be as inclined to spend hours on my computer, so it needs to be easy to use for me to get around to it.

I found out everything I needed to know from google searches. There are actually a number of good iWeb related sites with tips and such on using it.

So there’s some of my thoughts….

[Author]

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