The Bakery Wagon

[Andy Carson]

It’s been a while since we heard about the bakery wagon… How is it going?

[goodcompanion]

The bakery wagon is used about every other week to attend Vergennes market. It is a big eye-catcher when present. It leads to some good conversations and maybe a few extra sales. My horse also has learned to be very attentive, mindful, and sensible on the roads, and does the job barefoot with no problem.Also very fun to drive, when no cars are present.

But there’s the rub. As every ardent bicyclist knows, cars rule the roads. I worry not about some unpredictable thing the horse might do so much as the what the motorists might do. People do weird and erratic things confronted with a horse or any other non-standard thing in the road. For instance, person one comes up behind you and tails very slowly and cautiously. Second car comes up behind and does the same thing, following the first car. Pretty soon you have a train of eight cautious cars. Then the ninth car comes along, says, hell with this, and tears past the line and swerves in front of you just in time to miss oncoming traffic. Then the rest of the train, now out of patience and having seen that car #9 got past without causing a wreck, then follows suit, in no particular order, and with varying degrees of caution.

In the relatively few trips I’ve taken, I’ve seen more near-misses than I would like to. Don’t care to be the recipient or the indirect cause of any accident. Also because of the risk factor, using the wagon is something I can’t delegate. When I’m pressed for time I often just don’t use it and we attend market in the conventional way (which I can delegate).

Thanks for asking. I guess I can say I’ve learned a little about the possibilities of this idea, and a lot about the limitations.

[LStone]

Hi Erik,

Just wanted to say that I am impressed with your whole project, and the finished product (wagon) looks very satisfactory to me. About the actual delivery to market, well that would be considered as much of the finished product as the wagon and the bread. Would it not? I do a fair amount of road driving as well and I know what you mean about the traffic. I try to hold to the shoulder and ignore what goes on behind me and I don’t offer any input to auto traffic for just the reasons you mentioned. I would hate to be involved in an accident in any way. In NH my understanding is that barring my horses doing anything stupid, I have the right of way, but I don’t press the issue, in my view that would be unwise. I am just as courteous as possible and negotiate my own hazzards taking auto traffic conditions into consideration. Despite my nervousness though I still manage to enjoy myself in my journeys. I hope you continue to deliver your breads by the means that satisfies you most. Be safe and well in your enjoyment.

[Andy Carson]

Too bad about the traffic. I think I might be spoiled with the drivers around here. It might be that because of the Amish presence in PA, drivers generally know how to behave around horses (even though they probably don’t see them on a daily basis). Maybe it’s little encouragement, but by braving the road, you are making it easier for others who want to take thier horse on the road too. I am curious if most of your customers are repeat customers. If so, attracting them for the first time would be very important. If the wagon brought them in the first time, and the food brought them back, the whole system might be very successful even if there are only a couple new costomers brought it every outing.

[near horse]

What do you consider to be the “best” thing drivers can do when coming upon a HD vehicle?

– continue to follow slowly
– slow down and then pass when safe

My horses don’t like it when vehicles seem to lurk along behind.

[CharlyBonifaz]

My horses don’t like it when vehicles seem to lurk along behind.

neither does my ox; so it’s “slow down and pass when safe”

[grey]

Try doing some more vehicular desensitization if you can. In my case, I’ve done a bunch of work around a broad assortment of vehicles.

My horses have been led behind the sidecar rig, led from a motorcycle, led from the window of a car, led from the window of a truck, led while tied on behind the truck, led while tied on to the horse trailer, driven from the hood of the truck (they were towing it)…. but some of those tasks required two people, which I understand is not really an option for a lot of us.

They have eaten snacks offered from inside vehicles, from bicyclist, from skateboarders, from dirt bikes with no muffler. One of my mares likes to chase me around the pasture when I’m on the motorcycle.

I have gone waaaay out of my way to make vehicles an everyday part of my horses’ lives because I want to be able to take them off the farm and know that I’ve done everything I can to show them that the world is a strange and varied place but that they will always be safe. I know that this isn’t the case but as long as they believe that, we’ll all be a lot safer.

It really takes away a lot of the anxiety when you start hitting the roads. Any anxiety on your part will be picked up by the animals. How they deal with your anxiety will depend on how self-confident they are in that situation.

[goodcompanion]

It’s not my horse I’m worried about. It’s being hit by a car, or inadvertently causing a car-car collision. My horse has behaved quite well throughout, but we have nevertheless had near misses due to the behavior of motorists.

[near horse]

@goodcompanion 20531 wrote:

It’s not my horse I’m worried about. It’s being hit by a car, or inadvertently causing a car-car collision. My horse has behaved quite well throughout, but we have nevertheless had near misses due to the behavior of motorists.

I guess that was my original thought – is there a way to convey to motorists what “you want them to do”? Not just a slow-moving vehicle sign, but maybe a “Please pass with care when safe!” sign on the back of your rig. You’d hope people would know but as you said, one hesitant driver causes the jam up and then folks further back take bigger risks trying to pass.

I know what you’re saying Erik. Good safe drivers still can get killed by idiots on the road. Be careful and good luck!

[OldKat]

@near horse 20534 wrote:

I guess that was my original thought – is there a way to convey to motorists what “you want them to do”? Not just a slow-moving vehicle sign, but maybe a “Please pass with care when safe!” sign on the back of your rig. You’d hope people would know but as you said, one hesitant driver causes the jam up and then folks further back take bigger risks trying to pass.

I know what you’re saying Erik. Good safe drivers still can get killed by idiots on the road. Be careful and good luck!

Good teamsters and good teams, too. SOME people are absolutely idiots when they get behind the wheel. I have thought about a sign that says: “Please pass with care at normal speed”, just for that same reason.

When I use to have some lease property that was on either side of small, narrow and mostly unpopulated country lane I had the opposite problem. You would think you would never see any Indy 500 type drivers on such a road, but I was constantly amazed when people would blast into my herd of cows at 60, 70 mph when I was trying to drive them from one side of the road to the other. I thought about having some signs made up that said “SLOW, totally nude 10K FUN RUN just ahead” and put them out 1/4 of a mile or so on either side of the driveway that I brought them out to cross the road. I figure they may not slow down for a “Livestock Crossing” sign, but let them think they were going to see some flesh and they would probably slow to a crawl. I never made up the signs and don’t have that lease anymore, but I bet it would work

[grey]

For me, in my area, on my roads, I think it breaks down about like this:

With no sign and without any interaction between the teamster and traffic, you get about 60-75% satisfactory interaction with vehicular traffic.

If you add a sign with instructions, you are up to about 85% satisfactory interaction.

If you are able to add teamster interaction with traffic you are up to about 95% satisfactory interaction.

But there’s that approx 5% that you will never get rid of, no matter if you sit them down to a 15 minute lecture, complete with slideshow and diagrams and regardless of how many times they encounter you on the roadway.

The best you can do with the remaining 5% is make sure that lurkers, zoom-by-ers, helpful-honkers and noisy loads don’t faze your horse and that you are as totally zen on the inside as possible.

You have to know, before you harness up, that you are taking your life and the lives of your animals into your hands by hitting the road. No, that’s not correct. What I should be saying is that you are putting your life and the lives of your animals into STRANGERS’ hands. For whatever reason you have made the decision to risk your lives in order to drive down the road. Hey, I’m not judging you – I drive the roads too. But you have to acknowledge the risks you are taking, and accept it. Say it out loud, because it’s true: I’m choosing to drive my horses on the road and we might get injured or killed. Say it to yourself in the mirror.

Then, when you go out to catch up your horses and harness, you have to forget that there is any risk whatsoever. You mustn’t even think about it while you are on the road. If you have a near miss, you change your pants when you get home, but otherwise just smile and wave. Danger does not exist when you are on the road because anxiety will not help you or the horses.

The vast majority of the time, if you even see the danger coming, you will not have time to do anything other than perhaps say a four-letter word or maybe two before it’s all over and done with.

There are things you can do to make the situation safer for you and your horses but you will never, ever get rid of that 5%, no matter what you do. That 5% is part and parcel of driving on the roads.

[LStone]

Wow Grey, I read you crystal clear. I can’t say I’ve ever said it out loud but seeing it written down seemed very powerful to me. I will take your advice though and say the words the next time I go out on the streets. I don’t think I disregarded the risks of being on the streets before. They were just as real to me. But now they seem very different. Would I be lesser of a horseman if I talked myself out of it? Would I be irresponsible if I accepted the risks and continued. Food for thought for everyone.

[grey]

I hope I wasn’t too much of a downer with my bucket of cold water, but I feel very strongly that leaving worry and anxiety at home is an important component in the whole of road-driving safety. Fully acknowledge the danger, cause it sure as heck is thre, but leave it in the barn.

I have found that a sign that reassures drivers that they will not scare your horse is helpful. The poor behavior that we’d like to discourage generally stems from one of these five causes:

1.) a reluctance to get near or pass the wagon, for fear of scaring your horse; uncertainty and doubt regarding what is expected of them, the driver, in this situation

2.) a reluctance to pass the wagon, due to concerns about their own safety with regards to oncoming traffic

3.) a disinterest in passing the wagon because they are busy gawking

4.) an ignorance or disregard for the dangers of passing you at that particular place and time

5.) not having seen you and your wagon until it is too late

I experienced a huge increase in satisfactory interaction with vehicular traffic when I added teamster interaction to my road-driving routine. That leads me to believe that #1 in the list above is far and away the main culprit in my situation. Horses on the roads here are very uncommon and the drivers don’t know how to handle it.

[Andy Carson]

The road has never been a problem for me. Maybe it’s the area I live in, but reading Grey’s tips, maybe it’s not… When I go on the road (which isn’t really often), I am always in a forecart. It’s a pretty quiet ride, and I can hear a car or truck coming up behind me easily. When they get close, I turn my head around and make eye contact. There are plenty of people who can be jerks with anonymity, but few have the guts to do it to your face… It probably helps that not only can I see them, but they know I see them. At any rate, I often wave them by when it’s clear and time to pass. This keeps the gawkers moving and lets everyone feel more comfortable about passing. When visiblity is poor because of hills or turns, I also motion for traffic to stay back. Sometimes I will stand up and look ahead to see if it is clear, especially if I am holding someone back. The visibility when standing up on a forecart really is great and I can motion them by at a much earlier time than if they relied on thier own visibility. So really, I interact with and make eye contact with almost every vehicle that passes me on the road. Maybe this is one reason I have had such positive experiences.

The only thing this doesn’t help with is people not seeing you till the last second. I have never had to do this, but I feel good about “bailing” off the road in my forecart in that situation. It’s short enough to get off the road really quick and it just might be the best vehicle for surviving such a trip. Still, as I have never actually done this, it’s proably more of a confidence booster than anything…

[grey]

I do pretty much the same as you, Andy. I prefer taking my flatbed hay wagon out on the road because I stand at the dash and can see and be seen. I interact with nearly all traffic. Oncoming traffic gets a nod (exaggerated by a broad-brimmed hat) and a wave and eye contact. Overtaking traffic gets eye contact and a wave. If it’s safe to pass, I grin and becon them to come around, sometimes adding a thumbs-up if they seem really hesitant.

If it isn’t safe to pass, I make a show of craning my neck to see the road ahead and then show them the flat of my hand or maybe just one finger. No, not THAT finger. The finger that says, “just one second”. If I’ve got a parade built up behind me, I pull over if I can. Sometimes I simply stop in my lane to make it faster for folks to get past me. If I am on a curve where passing is unsafe, I trot my team if it’s appropriate, to get past the bottleneck a bit faster.

People are infinitely better-behaved when I am able to do these sorts of things, versus leaving them to their own devices. A sign helps, but not as much as live teamster interaction. When I have a load of hay on the wagon that prevents me from interacting with overtaking traffic, things can sometimes get a bit hairy, though not as bad as when I’m driving the covered wagon with the canvas up.

People see a load of hay going down the road and it seems to them like a fairly reasonable thing to encounter (although not a common sight around here). They pass when it’s safe… until they get alongside and see that the wagon is drawn by horses and not a tractor. Some people linger in the oncoming lane, either gawking or suddenly uncertain whether or not they should pass the horses. When I took the covered wagon out on the road, people would lurk behind, gawking and wondering what they should do. I imagine the bakery wagon had a similar effect.

[Author]

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