Whoa, focus – Let’s bring it all in…

[Scott G]

Evenin’ everyone,

It seems as though all threads are leaning in one direction, objectives. At this point I think we have enough folks on board, more can join in as appropriate. Being that nobody has responded to the moderator/lead thread and I don’t want Carl to get dumped on, I’ll get this started until we get and stay on track.

First question, and please everyone respond; do we initially 1) want to focus on a networking effort, or 2) get an association going from the get go?

Restating my thoughts (and vote), I believe we would be better off if we focused first on networking; utilizing both e- & hardcopy formats. Gregg’s comments are well received, however, I personally know of several loggers, mechanical and a couple horse, who crawl out of the woods to buy supplies, fuel, stop by the watering hole, and check their P.O. Box, and then disappear again for awhile. Many of them, especially those 50+years old have zero interest in the internet or have someone (son/daughter) that take care of that aspect for gov contracts etc..

Myself, when I’m at home, am still on dial up…….

As far as newsletter time commitment; we are all currently writing here. Many hands make light work and we are all on the internet with file sharing capability. I do not believe we initially need to worry about a fancy format or color images. Standard .docs’ or .pdfs’ integrated into something simple like MS publisher should work. When folks join in and submit the required 1/2 -1 page handwritten note explaining their show that they send with their subscription request, we have content for the newsletter. When they send money we will have enough to print their copy and mail it. B & W hardcopy and if Carl is willing to let the e-copy reside here we should be good to go. We don’t need to go to glossy color from the get go. Keeping it simple from the start would go a long way here.

I will certainly oblige if the majority wants to go with an association from the start. If that is the case lets decide it here. From my perspective that will take on an added level of complexity, but is certainly the end goal regardless of whatever starting approach we decide on.

This will take a time commitment; anything worthwhile does. Those that can contribute more will, others can contribute whatever they can. It takes very little to write 1/2 – 1 page every 3 months.

Jim seems to have the most newsletter experience, but again, I don’t want him to get dumped on if he is not up for it. Putting the burden on only 1-2 people is not sustainable. Being that the majority of my time is currently spent being a government forester and one that finds himself in more meetings as well as at a keyboard/phone most of the time, I have more time than most since I’m already in that setting doing a lot of writing anyway.

Greg’s utilizing the reference to ‘Horses, Hitches, & Rocky Trails’ highlights the need for this networking effort. My beginings as a wee lad were deep rooted in backcountry outfitting, packing, and guiding with horses. We often thought that manual was the greenhorn’s guide to survival with many questions left unanswered. I came across many folks in the backcountry while working that were in a major jam because that was the only reference they were working off of.

There is so much more to learn and tell from a viable, extensive network of draft powered forestry folks on an international scale. Let’s get it started and keep it simple. If we all chip in it will be an opportunity, not a burden…..

-Scott

[Rick Alger]

My vote is to network first.

[john plowden]

Lets get a network going –
John

[lancek]

Scott I agree totaly and my vote is for nettworking frist and work out the paticulars later! And although the email format is probely eaiser you are right about the folks that dont have or want to have internet service! But I raise my question again is there some sort of software out that allows us to net work with or can we just use word? And I still feel that a reiganal or state by state net working system would be aproperate so that we could set up say state or area chapters and not only use the news letter but be able to included some sort of area meeting with folks to do demos and work shops Tim

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Folks,

I suppose a network is a beginning but I agree that a formal association would be the eventual goal. Not for the sake of having a formal organization, but for the effort to be enduring and ongoing beyond the efforts of this founding group. Yet the start doesn’t have to have that organizational burden from the onset but already exists as an exploratory group effort, storing the information and exchanges on Carl’s site as a start up.
The distinction between an exploratory group effort and an association will be defined by the collection of membership dues. At that point it will be an association with or without any government rules and regs. Again if having it as a part of an existing 501c3 as an umbrella organization it would be easier to get and keep up with funds that may be donated or collected from membership. We offer the support of Healing Harvest Forest Foundation in that capacity when the time comes to decide about that. At the same time we commit to contribute writings from our experiences from the onset. In fact there is much already written on the DAP site that could be useful information for interested members.

I second the motion of Scott being the moderator and chairman of the exploratory committee. Of course it would be better if he had faster internet service, but for text he can probably get allot of work done from that station nonetheless. If he types as slowly as most of us, it will work well.

So we start as a network, grow to be an association and ripen into the Animal Powered Logging Association of the World. (APLAW) (just a suggested name) I like it when names have hidden meaning or hidden in the obvious….

Do we want to refine our objectives next? The common sense expressed by Rick and others are appropriate terms for expressing the best efforts of this group. Will Scott be harnessed with the task of collecting these objectives in text and we all agree on them as the first page of our first information release?

Let me know what we can do next.

I will be out of town tomorrow doing a pre-event site inspection and organizing for the Southern Draft Animal Days event in Tennessee and will check back on this progress when we return. We will be glad to provide a free booth inclusion of this effort at this event if everyone agrees.

I also will be glad to contact Lynn Miller about gaining his support for this fledgling group too. We need the industry icons support in every way.

Good work folks, thanks for all of your sharing.

I remain in Warm Salute,

Jason Rutledge
Biological Woodsman
President, BOD
Healing Harvest Forest Foundation
http://healingharvestforestfoundation.org
540-651-6355

[Carl Russell]

I think it makes sense to set broad association goals, ie “bettering the plight of horse-loggers”.

We also to set goals for this working group ie. forming an association that can connect, educate, and advocate for Animal-Powered Timber Harvesters world wide.

And then to also look at short range goals like networking, appraising the scope of our audience, or developing a newsletter.

My sense is that if we start with the networking, reaching out to established associations, letting people know what we are talking about, and inviting them to participate in the network, then we will get a better idea of who’s doing what, where, and what if anything we can do to augment that.

Then through those contacts we can go about the effort to pull together a concerted formation of an association that could connect all the parties.

I think the first newsletter can be very simply something that lays out some of the background philosophies that we’ve kicked around, and letting people know how to contact the working group. It should probably be something electrical, and copied to major publications. Many of us have contact lists that we can share.

I think Tim’s (LanceK) comments are good in that perhaps that can be one of our long range goals, to help people form regional associations.

My wife Lisa McCrory has been working closely with Northeast Organic Dairy Producers Alliance since it’s inception, and she shared some insights with me, about using “Constant Contact” to manage e-mail addresses, and to send out their monthly e-newsletter. Costs $260/year

Also she is the editor of their quarterly hard copy newsletter. The objective is to have advertising pay for most if not all of the newsletter. They hire a designer who also manages their website, but basically he charges $30-35/page for layout and design. The finished product is then printer ready. NEAPFD hired him for our program catalog, and he is very easy to work with and very much worth the money.

This is not to say that we should be starting there, but we need to be clear on the fact that as working people we are possibly not going to have the time to devote to the administration of such things, and although the first go-arounds can be very simple, if we are serious about having a sustainable enterprise we should be looking at ways to bring people into the operation who can be paid to do the work for us, so that it gets done, in timely fashion, and professionally delivered.

Back to freezing beans and gardening. The woods were muddy last week, and I worked, but now they are as muddy as mud-season. Vernal pools are full. I’m surprised I don’t hear peepers.

Carl

[Scott G]

Thanks everyone. Great input all the way around. First, let’s address a few questions/comments. Tim, I believe everyone can contribute via word processing files sent to a central organizer. I would be happy to do that. As I said, a good chunk of my time is spent at the computer anyway and my current situation allows me some freedom and time to pitch in on this effort. Jason, luckily my dial-up is at home and I have the benefit of having high speed at my office, so connection speed and file sharing is not an issue. A good part of my gov job deals with working on forestry & woody biomass issues on a regional & national basis and this certainly falls in line with that. I am blessed that I am given the flexibility and freedom to work for the betterment of forestry as a whole.

It sounds as though the consensus is that networking via an international communication effort is primary with the end goal being the formation of an international association based on input from contributors & subscribers.

Carl, I whole-heartedly agree that eventually outsourcing production and distribution of the newsletter is optimal. In order to be sustainable and take it to the next level that type of support will be key. During our start up, however, the ability to put together a file in the form of a newsletter and send it out to everyone via-email is something that is very much within the scope of what I can pull off from my ‘puter. Of course in order for this to work, it will require that I/we receive material/files that are pretty much ready to go with a minimum of editing. Printing that and sticking it in the mail is something that can be done as requests/monies are received for a hard copy. I believe that the hardcopy is the only initial aspect that justifies collection of funds. The in-house layout, editing and distribution is something we can accomplish with our collective efforts for at least the initial start up. No expensive software, just use what most of of us already have loaded on our computers.

So, all of that said lets get down to details. I will outline several point by point below. Please respond to them in the same fashion for ease of organization.

1) What is the consensus and/or discussion on what I’ve mentioned so far?

2) Throw out some names for the effort. Ideally ones that could carry over into the eventual association. Key words could/would be; draft, forestry, logging, powered, animal, international, etc..

3) Mission statement. This should be 1-3 sentences at most.

4) Goals. List five goals, in order of priority, for this effort. Clear, concise, and limited to one complete sentence.

I will collect all of these, post them in one message, and we will vote for the top three. From those results we will vote again for the top one, realizing we might do some editing to the final for brevity and clarity.

Once we have that accomplished I will start a seperate thread requesting input regarding specific tasks to accomplish each goal.

Ready, set, go…….

[Rick Alger]

1. Go for it

2. New Age Loggers.

3. Improving the lot of the practicing horselogger while adding to the richness and diversity of the forest.

4. a) Establish meaningful connections with those who manage our forests – landowners, foresters, congressmen etc including those who disburse subsidies for good forestry.

b) Work with researchers to study and publish ecological benefits of animal logging.

c) Develop time-share arrangements for new technology like hydraulic forwarders.

d) Work to establish a separate and reasonable Worker’s Comp category for animal loggers.

e) Share techniques and strategies.

[lancek]

1. I agree with Rick go for it I think if we start slowy and build we will be better able to controll the content and quality!
2. Uinaversal horse logging association!
3.To develop some sort of state or reginal orginisation to help with training new and upcoming horse loggers Get more awareness to the general public find and permote new ways to use animal power to enhance our forest world wide!
4. more goverment help to land owners in the form of tax or cash payments to maintain there woodlots, help and encuagement in new tecnolagie to make our work safer and more proffitable, the workmens comp idea is great and more nettwoking! Tim / lancek

[cedarriverhorselogging]

I have been on the road for the last few days without internet so i need to catch up.

I think keeping it inexpensive to start with is a must. hard copy news letter is a good goal but is not cheap. start with email and then add hard copy when we have an income. the c3 or c6 will cost between $750 and $1000. nah&mla is set up in Oregon and we are suppose to have a member in Oregon.
Glenn has not been a member for some time and it needs to be transfered to another state. i was going to transfer it to Minnesota but it cost $750. With that and not being able to get a news letter out, which ran 12 to 14 pages, it would seem to be better to start fresh. it will still cost to set it up but we need a state to be the base for the non profit. you can still have you president were ever but you need to have a member in the base state.

focusing on Scotts email here is an out line of some things i thought of to focus on Please add to or discuss these thoughts.

1. a mission statement.
A. To promote, and educate the public on draft animal forestry and to provide a network for landowners to connect with practitioners
B. to provide an outreach program for new practitioners to learn and grow.

2. Goals- something to aim at.
A. to develop and international draft animal forestry association.
objective- how are we going to get to the goal.
a. develop a board of directors
b. develop districts- we had north west, mid west, south west, south, south east, north east, each district needs a director.
c. develop a non profit. 501c3, or 501c6
d. develop your financial structure,
1. how are you going to pay for your expenses. news letters, marketing, events.
2. income, memberships, how much? fund raisers, field days, seminars. ?

B. Benefits of members
a. receive a news letter, email or hard copy.
b. insurance benefits.
c. educational opportunities
d. networking with practitioners and landowners
c. better marketing opportunities.

[john plowden]

Let’s get it going –
– To promote positive impact forest management using draft animals and appropriate technology –
– We need a way to rate or insure performance and praise a job well done –
– Work-mans comp is a huge issue that should be addressed –
– a data base/ referral system to share with prospective clients –
– a place to advertise services,tools,and equipment –
– a net work to discuss ideas,successes and failures –
– mentoring or training –
Just some thoughts for now – still thinking on the name – John

[Carl Russell]

I have included my comments in blue below, Carl

Scott G;10356 wrote:

…….
So, all of that said lets get down to details. I will outline several point by point below. Please respond to them in the same fashion for ease of organization.

1) What is the consensus and/or discussion on what I’ve mentioned so far?
It sounds as though the consensus is that networking via an international communication effort is primary with the end goal being the formation of an international association based on input from contributors & subscribers.
I agree with this.

2) Throw out some names for the effort. Ideally ones that could carry over into the eventual association. Key words could/would be; draft, forestry, logging, powered, animal, international, etc..
International Draft Animal Forestry Initiative (IDAFI)

3) Mission statement. This should be 1-3 sentences at most.
To facilitate the international connection between draft animal forestry practitioners, exchanging information, providing benefits of association (ie. insurance, cooperative marketing,etc.), and advocating toward mutual goals.

4) Goals. List five goals, in order of priority, for this effort. Clear, concise, and limited to one complete sentence.
1. to establish an international directory of associations, organizations, and individuals who are supporting the work of draft animal forestry practitioners.

2. to develop a network of information sharing, such as websites, e-newsletter, and hard-copy newsletter to support the international community of draft animal forestry practitioners.

3. to form an association to support the international community of draft animal forestry practitioners.

4. to improve opportunities for draft animal forestry practitioners to unite regionally, and internationally, to share information, work, markets, and advocacy.

5. to advance an ecological perspective of forest management, based on the use of draft animals, and other low impact/low input strategies.

…….

[Gabe Ayers]

Well I am still unsure about how to respond technically, so I am trying reply to this message that came from the secret forum.

This is good stuff folks, great work. I will add some comments in italics below.

Draft Animal Power – Sustainable Farming, Forestry and Living wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Carl Russell has just posted in the Draft Animal Logging Association Working Group forum of Draft Animal Power – Sustainable Farming, Forestry and Living under the title of Whoa, focus – Let’s bring it all in….
>
> This thread is located at http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=2022
>
> Here is the message that has just been posted:
> ***************
> I have included my comments in blue below, Carl
>
>
> —Quote (Originally by Scott G)—
> …….
> So, all of that said lets get down to details. I will outline several point by point below. Please respond to them in the same fashion for ease of organization.
>
> 1) What is the consensus and/or discussion on what I’ve mentioned so far?
> It sounds as though the consensus is that networking via an international communication effort is primary with the end goal being the formation of an international association based on input from contributors & subscribers.
> I agree with this.
>
> 2) Throw out some names for the effort. Ideally ones that could carry over into the eventual association. Key words could/would be; draft, forestry, logging, powered, animal, international, etc..
> International Draft Animal Forestry Initiative (IDAFI)
>
/Animal Powered Logging Association of the World (APLAW) –

I like the above suggestion also, it just doesn’t have the word association in it, which may be more appropriate if this effort elects to exist without the gubment sanctioning… this may be appropriate if we have an existing non profit 501c3 that could act as a fiscal agent in the unlikely event that some funding arises that could support the group with a restriction that it can only come to a 501c3. HHFF stands ready as a 10 y.o. ngo that would be a fitting umbrella org. for/to this effort.
/
> 3) Mission statement. This should be 1-3 sentences at _most_.
> To facilitate the international connection between draft animal forestry practitioners, exchanging information, providing benefits of association (ie. insurance, cooperative marketing,etc.), and advocating toward mutual goals.
>
> 4) Goals. List five goals, in order of priority, for this effort. Clear, concise, and limited to one complete sentence.
> 1. to establish an international directory of associations, organizations, and individuals who are supporting /(or practicing)/ the work of draft animal forestry practitioners.
>
> 2. to develop a network of information sharing, such as websites, e-newsletter, and hard-copy newsletter to support /(and promote)/ the international community of draft animal forestry practitioners.
>
> 3. to form an association to support the international community of draft animal forestry practitioners.
>
> 4. to improve opportunities for draft animal forestry practitioners to unite regionally, and internationally, to share information, work, markets, and advocacy.
>
> 5. to advance an ecological perspective of forest management, based on the use of draft animals, and other low impact/low input strategies.
>
>
/6. To serve as a networking, clearinghouse and contact information for individuals and organizations involved in animal powered forestry throughout the world.

7. To serve as an official body to support collaboration, research and demonstration with all interest groups on the issues of sustainable forestry including, governmental, non governmental organizations (NGO), academic institutions, municipalities, private landowners and those individuals interested in actually doing this work.

8. Establish a mentor /apprentice network world wide.
/
> …….
> —End Quote—

[Scott G]

All,
Great input so far but I’d like to see a few more responses. I’ll give it till Monday then compile the responses for a vote. Sooo…. get your ideas in now.

BTW, County fair excursion is done for the year. My oldest daughter cleaned up. Took overall champion in horse, both english & western, grand champion horse showmanship, reserve champion class I market steer, champion beef showmanship, and grand champion dog. Everybody is tired but happy. Proud Pa! Round 2 at State fair in three weeks………

Take care,
Scott

[Carl Russell]

Jason, you cannot respond to the e-mails that come from this forum. They are just messages to alert you that someone has posted, and to show you what they wrote so that you don’t miss out on portions of the discussion.

When you want to respond, you just visit the site as usual, and post in the same old way.

Carl

[Author]

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