[Gabe Ayers]

We have finally got our new improved plans on the HHFF Web site under log arch plans on the lower left side of the home page. There are several drawings, a materials list and 3D drawings that display the device well. There is some discussion of the use of this device in the Forest Understories page on the site.
We will probably write some more about the use of the arch soon. There are techniques that help this device be an efficient tool for moving logs with minimum impact on forest soil, increased capacity from the work stock and safety for the operator.

This information is free to the public, please let us know if you have any questions about how it works. We hope to have one at Horse Progress Days in Mount Hope, Ohio on the 4th and 5th of July 2008.

Thanks again to Carl and Lisa for this great site.

[Gabe Ayers]

I have used a John Deere 14 blade disc for several years. It has a tongue truck but it just keeps the disc moving at the same angle and turning easier. I don’t use a tongue on it although I can see how one would fit in the large clevis that I have a double tree attached to. I suppose a tongue would work but if one was not traveling down any steep inclines I am not sure it is necessary. I will say that this device is hard on ones back and butt, particularly if the ground is rough after being plowed. We usually drag it lightly to level it before discing. It does a great job cutting crop residue and mixing the soil. I used ours in the garden this week and it is a sweet experience to hear the soil swoosh through the disc and be tilled to a fine seed bed. Ok that was bragging about not having many rock in the garden spot. Rocky ground will be hard to work with a disk. There is technique involved in using the tool. You have to overlap and basically hit one half of the disc width at a time and it will do a good job cutting crop residue, sod and soil into a a workable seed bed. We actually only disc our garden after an initial plowing of the old sod. The ground stay friable and well tilled through the use of the disc and a chain harrow for leveling. We actually hook a four foot section of chain harrow behind the disc on one side and finish it in a couple of passes.

Good Luck finding one. The best ones have zerk grease fittings and metal bushings instead of grease cups and wooden bushings. The disk blades shouldn’t be worn to different sizes although they can be replaced.

We pick them up at old farm auctions for around $50.00 or so in Appalachia.
Sometimes you can get one from an antique dealer, but they usually want more since they are the only folks bidding against most horse farmers for this old machinery.

[Gabe Ayers]

One technique we use is the cradle hitch which allows for a large log to be hitched and lifted from the bottom. This method was explained in an earlier post, which is on this site. This method use two choker chains and hitches to the outside slots and really reduces/eliminates tongue slap. We use the D-ring also and find that this harness reduces slap and sore necks in the summer time. The key is proper adjustment like Dr. D. Ring Les advises.

The primary benefits of the arch are, increased use of the animals tractive power, less impact on the ground and safety for the operator – all of which increase production and income from doing this work.

Simon, send me a mailing address (via email) and if our technologies are compatible I will send you a DVD that has many examples of the arch we use.

We will soon have better graphic of the simple log arch we use on our web site, including detail plans and materials list. I hope to write up some text about the use of the device to accompany this page, once we get through all the other things planned for the near future. It may be a while, spring is here and things are starting to rock and roll in many ways.

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Bruce,

Glad you are on the board, because we need a good farrier to advise us on hoof care and proper shoeing. Thanks for being here.

I am curious (as a matter of financial planning) about what it cost to get a team of average draft horses shod with heel caulks and toe plates for serious logging.

Include the cost or borium or drill tech surfacing. This is probably the most important aspect of winter logging and we are just curious what it cost in NE.
Given the importance of that service whatever it cost to get a good job is where the operating cost estimates should start, from an outside expense perspective.

There is s a definite shortage of draft horse farriers in the south east or Appalachians. We have to do it ourselves, but often are asked what the cost are.

Thanks,

[Gabe Ayers]

Hi Jared – welcome to Draft Animal Power – I hope you will continue to check in here with the lively discussions we have going on.

[Gabe Ayers]

Some on this site know of an old hand named Glen French out in Salmon River, Oregon. Glen never used blinders on his horses. I have asked him to write about it but he tends to not want to influence other peoples styles to much and hasn’t written much about it publicly. Glen French was an accomplished horseman and logged and competed in regional pulling contest for many years and was the past president of the North American Horse and Mule Loggers Association.

He basically explained to me that it was a matter of trusting the horses to understand what is going on behind them and not be afraid of it. It is best as John suggest to start them that way so it isn’t a sudden surprise to see a large object following (chasing) them out of the woods. I think of it as a matter of horses are frightened most, (like the rest of us), by what they don’t understand. So if they are allowed to experience lots of things in the gradual process of their training then they are less likely to be frightened by what they understand from experience that things moving behind them that are not a threat.

Like John I have experimented with not having blinders in the woods and the horses are frightened by all of the new vision they have and can be compelled to the fear equals flight response, particularly if they don’t have a bit in their mouth that can stop them from running away.

Most of the European horse loggers don’t use blinders either. I prefer to have blinders just to make the work easier from the onset, which I guess means less time training one to all the possible scenarios of working and get me to the point that I am putting wood on the landing quicker which means more money with less training.

It is interesting to note that the pulling contest rules around here usually require that you use blinders or open bridles but that you can’t change during the contest. In Maryland they don’t have that rule and I have seen several guys take the blinders off on the last few loads to get a little more from the horses. I knew a fellow once that drilled holes in the middle of his blinders and put rubber grommets in them and would pop them out on the last load to get a little more response from the horses. The judges never caught him at it, but the conditioning of the horses and their basic honest effort is what wins pulling contest particularly when the contestants are not inclined to drug or shock horses to compete.

I also think blinders protect the horses eyes in the brush of the forest. I will keep mine on for the time being.

I also have noticed that brave horses are more likely to not make a difference with blinders or not – for instance – my older stallion doesn’t care one way or another. As a matter of experience I was riding him up the road one day following my daughter riding an older gelding and we decided to turn around and go back to the barn for something. The turn around was pretty sharp and when I bent the stallions head around to where he could see around the blinders and he saw my leg hanging off his side he reached up and tried to crab kick my leg with his inside hind leg. That was scary so just as soon as I got back to the barn I changed to an open bridle and mounted him again and rode off without incident. Once he knew it was me on his back it didn’t matter, but to see my leg suddenly around the blinders was scary for him apparently. That experience is what taught me that he is brave once he understands what is going on.

So I guess if you start them without blinders and develop their experience slowly it doesn’t make much difference.

Don’t forget the Restorative Forestry Summit at Mountain Lake Conservancy in September 18-21 2008. More information will be on our web site soon. Put in on your calendar and come on down to the Appalachians and visit with us in the woods.

[Gabe Ayers]

Well, there is much reward and knowing the every loaded step my horses take is less energy required to do my work. It doesn’t matter if I am logging, plowing, disking, planting, or anything I can do with them it all saves energy.

We are on the grid. contributing to climate change by using coal fired electricity.

My commitment to less energy use started in the early 80’s when I built a passive solar earth sheltered home that is half underground in a little south facing hillside on top of the mountain at 3000 ft. elevation. There should be a law against building any other type of home.

Meanwhile I would love to be off the grid and out of any internal combustion vehicles, but I am a ways from being there yet. Our forestry practices are carbon positive and I think that will come to be understood as more for the public good than anything else we do with our lives and I am happy to share that with this forum.

I’d attach a photo of my burrow but the file is to big.

Keep working your animals.

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Scott and other woodsmen,

Well I probably have several answers as you suspected. First I want to describe why we use this simple log arch. First, it is durable, it doesn’t have any moving parts that are sure to wear out, especially with really stout horses and big logs and that is the combination I think it takes to make a living at this work. The quick release slot bars wear out. The rigid ones also, but mush slower. I would say I have skidded a million board feet on ours without replacing the slot bar. The slot does eventually wear out and the slot becomes to open to keep a 5/16’s choker chain in place. That just keeps it simple and durable.

Since the two main reasons for having an arch are to provide front end suspension of the log and provide a safe place for the operator to ride then the device we use serves well. It is not necessary to lift the front end of the log much to lessen the effort required to skid it and lessen the impact on the forest soil. So the simple arch will do that. It only lifts about four inches or so on a single choker chain hitched straight up to the slot. Hooking the chain is important. We hook straight up to the slot when the smooth face of the log is on the bottom and simply slip the chain in the slot as tight as you can, but still be able to remove it when at the landing assuming that both places are relatively level. I am famous for hooking to tight so I know a few tricks about getting the chain out at the landing. In defense of my penchant to hook to tight I know that making the load easier on my horses and the ground will get more wood out in a day and keep the top soil on the top, which will get me more jobs.

Now when I do get the chain to tight, usually because the log is somewhat elevated by the ground conditions or angle of the end I am hitching to I use a few methods at the landing. The first is a magic device called a piece of firewood about 4 inches in diameter that I simply pull the log up on and back up and take the chain out of the slot. That is an easy accessory for most of us to come by. When it is hooked properly, (straight up with the log on a flat spot) just backing up lets the log down and the chain comes out. We sometimes will use a peavy to pop the chain out of the slot if it is to far to walk and pick up the piece of firewood, mentioned earlier.

Another point about the simple device and slot bar is that we often use multiple hitches on big logs, out of hard spots. This means we simply put a chain over the tongue of the arch that is hitched to the log and run it back to the center slot and up to the front team which is usually on an arch and put the power to it. I submit that if you put that kind of power on a quick release slot bar regularly you will tear it up.

The reason we can use the center slot to connect the chain to the front lead team is because on all big logs we use the “cradle hitch” that consist of two choker chains. This arrangement uses the two outside slots therefore leaving the center one open. This provides much greater lift on larger logs. And folks, larger logs are worth more money. I actually learned this hitch method from a old Vermont horse logger many decades ago….

Now, Scott and other DAP people, the reason I haven’t been on here for a while is because I have been working on a huge event we are planning in Virginia in September. It is currently, tentatively scheduled for 18-21 of September 2008. We are calling it the:

Restorative Forestry Summit and Biological Woodsmen’s Week at Mountain Lake Conservancy.

We are yet to have all the details worked out, including approval by all the various boards and such, but we hope it will be the premier modern horse logging event in the world.

Please stay tuned for details on this event. You may go to the Mountain Lake Conservancy.com web site and read more about this location and see that they have it on their schedule although it is not set in stone….yet. It is at the Mountain Lake Hotel that was the site of the filming of the movie “Dirty Dancing”. Everyone is welcome, book a room now….I am quite confident it will happen. I am hoping to invite our friends from the north including your DAP host and family. Carl, please take that as an invite as a participant or in whatever capacity you wish.

So I hope this has some answers to the slot bar issue and remember plans for this device are free on our web site. Please let me know if you have any other questions or thoughts about log arches or restorative forestry.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and keep up the good work.

Warm Salute,

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Rick,

Here are a couple of leads, neither one may be what you want, but thought I would share them with you. There are many more horses out there than people that know how to work them. I am just cut copy pasting the emails into this message for, that way anyone else that may be interested can see them too.
They are from members of the Virginia Draft Horse and Mule Assn.

Jason

---

Original Message

---

From: “Pao Lin” To:
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: [VDHMA] Nice Belgian Mare looking for new home- Denton, MD

> Posting this for Kim at Timbergrove farm
>
> Please direct all inquiries to kim@timbergrovefarm.com. If you have a
> real interest, please pm me and I’ll forward the photos she sent.
> Nice mare!
>

---

> Hi Pao Lin,
> Hope you are doing well. Thanks for passing on the info that you send
> my way. I am writing about a really nice Belgian mare that I have for
> sale. She is in her late teens, and is a great mare to drive. She has
> worked on an Amish farm in the past and when we got her she was
> pretty
> skinny. She has put on quite a bit of weight already. She is a true
> sweetheart. We were hoping to use her in our therapeutic driving
> program, but there is only one person who wants to drive and George
> Parris ( our driving trainer ) has said he can use his own horse for
> the therapeutic sessions. I would love to get $500 for her which is
> less than what I have in her. I just want her to get a nice home.
> Please pass this on to anyone who may be interested. I am attaching
> some pics of the girls riding her bareback.
> Thanks and take care,
> Kim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VDHMA/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
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>Cross posting this. Please call Dr. Mendez direct.

Veteranarian; Susan Mende, called me yesterday to let me know one of
her clients has a percheron gelding, black (Sorry I can’t remember
age), 17 hands, about 1600 lbs., will give to a good home. She has used
him for two years with a trainer, doing dressage, he does well, but
because of his size they feel he will not advance any further, so she
has bought another horse, and is currently training with him. Maybe you
could post this, anyone interested can reach

Susan at 410-741-1473. She says he is a great trail horse, but does not
know if he drives.

[Gabe Ayers]

Down south in the central Appalachians in the higher elevations (2000 ft.+)
we have a species called Cucumber Magnolia. It may grow further north also.

This is considered one of the strongest lightest hardwoods available according to the Encyclopedia of Wood. We use it for tongues and wagon boards and it is very durable to the weathering of exterior use and storage..well that is a contradiction because if it is kept outside it isn’t stored so to speak. But the point it that I have several tongues on implements kept out doors that are well over a decade old.

This species grows very straight and tall in a mixed hardwood forest of this region and is a dominant in many settings. The interesting characteristic is that even though it grows very straight the grain of the wood is curly which I think contributes to the strength of the wood.

As mentioned before I am totally inexperienced as a bull whipper/drover but have met a few ox workers over the years. One in particular had a huge pair of Holsteins and a big yoke to fit of course. When I asked him about the wood he told me it was cucumber. I think his bows were hickory. This old fellow was famous in his community for hooking this team to stuck trucks, bulldozers and anything hung up in a difficult spot, which is where everyone gets stuck.

So if anyone wants to try some cucumber just give me a call and we will see if we can ship a blank up there for a trial yoke.

[Gabe Ayers]

I am going to try to post a photo of some friends grinding sorghum cane this last fall deep in the mountains of North Carolina. The fellow feeding the mill is Andy Bennett of Marshall, N.C. The student photographing this rare cultural event is from Mars Hill College. The Sorghum turned out pretty good, despite using methods well over a hundred years old, including the mill. The horse was just a two year old, Blue Roan.

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Ira,

Glad you are here man, hope all is well in Cherry country. Weigh in when you can. Proven practitioners are needed to advise, support and inspire anyone interested. I know you are proven. Welcome.

Jason

[Gabe Ayers]

Hello Brother Bob,

So glad you are on this site now, given I know how dedicated and experienced you are at this work given our past association and your proven tract record at Paul Smith’s and in every forest you work.

This is an interesting question at this particular point in time. There are several efforts underway to develop such programs at several institutions throughout the country.

I feel fortunate to be in the position of working for a public charity which relieves me from proprietorial concerns over the information. The way I see it is that the information should be free to the public, as it is for the “public good” but the actual instructional course and instructors should be paid for their time, services and expertise. So an institution could offer the courses for a fee, just as any other college level course and the development of the instructional information should be adapted to the region that the eventual student will practice.

Although I often speak of there being no separation of forestry and agriculture for the sake of simplicity and clear differentiation of the tasks I would suggest two courses – Restorative Forestry and Sustainable Agriculture. I will only weigh in on the Forestry side at this point.

So to follow that thinking the information we have developed at HHFF is free to anyone that is interested. The course could include the obvious skills necessary to practice restorative and therefore sustainable forestry which could include:

Basic Chainsaw safety and skills
Silviculture: to include (local species identificatio) dendrology, market identification, potential value adding
Harvesting site management, job layout, landing selection, identification of previous human activities, etc.
Natural horsemanship and the skills of a modern horseman, teamster, drover etc.
Business arrangements:to include local/regional laws, multiple options of payment systems for practitioners and landowners, etc.
Business Development based upon community based systems of operation by integrating into the local community and not going out and redefining what is already happening everywhere. This could be a crucial aspect of eventual success. Defining this work as a superior service yet being a part of the existing industry is important in creating a lasting change to the current methods of heavily extractive conventional forestry.

This list can include a glossary of terms from the cultural practices, a syllabus of or appropriate text books with lots of lessons and test on the information provided in this form.

However the key to this type of educational opportunity will be the ground level instruction and the hands on experience for the students. That is why key people to conduct this instruction will be the most important aspect of the program being successful in creating more practitioners to work in the community of their choice and revive the honored profession of being a Woodsmen. We of course use the phrase Biological Woodsmen because we are dedicated to the use of modern animal powered techniques as the most superior method available. The desired end result is bottom up change in the natural resource management of our country. I have faith that given good information through examples, models and a system of rewards good practices that change will occur.

This is just a start on this effort and I will be glad to share what is being developed for other institutions that we are working with as time passes.
We hope to develop such a program at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC in the near future. Once this first program is underway at a large school then the same can be practiced regionally all over the world.

Again, thanks for being here Bob, I look forward to hearing from you again soon. Chad Vogel is working in Boone, NC with Ian Snider at the moment and we are hopeful that those two will be instructors for the first course offered through this institution.

Stay in touch. Go to our web site and read the list of equipment required for Biological Woodsmen apprentices and the expected skills base taught through our existing mentor apprentice educational system. You are right, it is time for this worthy work to go mainstream….

It will be interesting to hear the reactions and contributions from the other experienced practitioners on this forum. Other than the HHFF program, Paul Smiths, Sterling College and the private instruction provided by myself and Farmer Brown that is nothing like this available to my knowledge.

Warm Salute,
Jason Rutledge

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Luke,

What kind of claims are animal powered loggers making…that they can’t back up?

We have to deal with ethical issues with some (a very few) horse loggers all the time. It is a challenge…..

[Gabe Ayers]

It just makes sense that a caulked shoe with big toe plates gains greater purchase on the ground and requires better attachment to the hoof. When they get a little long in the toe the back shoes will come off or get loose quicker, I think from the fact that when you turn them in a tight circle the one foot basically has to spin on the spot and it can come off then. The Iron Rose is right, when they are kept up with and the nail holes are not worn out they will stay on pretty good. It is hard work and turns out to be the greatest expense of logging with the horses if you have to hire it done. Fortunately we do our own these days, since my son has gotten skilled enough to fit and shoe them properly.

I hope this is enough elaboration. When they start clicking, clinch them or reset them. The angles are so important in the horses being stout. I know these toe plates and heel caulked shoes make our horses able to pull bigger logs with more confidence.

Hope the log markets are holding up for everyone out there. Maybe we can start a thread on the values of raw logs regionally.

[Author]

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