[dominiquer60]

Donn,
I think that composting anything is a good idea. On the farm that I used to live on, we composted chicken offal, pig parts, and anything that unexpectedly died. It is a great way to recycle nutrients and keep them on the farm. I would love the option for myself someday, it just makes sense.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

It looks to me that the times are a changing, why create some new department and tracking systems when our government really can’t even afford to run basic services. We need to stop relying on and allowing the government to control our lives. I can see it is going to get worse before people start taking responsibility for themselves and make it better. So far I am not impressed with the “Change.” Of course I don’t listen to the news or watch TV, so my opinion is based on the fact that I see my fellow farmer/rural friends gearing up for a nose dive, that says it all for me.

This makes me want to go home and set up a booth at the local farmers’ markets and get more people involved with letting the government know where there place is, not in my pocket and not in my business.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Congratulations! It is great that teamsters are having little teamsters, I hear it is easier when you start them young 🙂

Erika

[dominiquer60]

I started a new thread called “seed sources” so we don’t wear our welcome on Simpleliving’s intro.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

I value all the opinions on this topic, at school it was vaccinate, medicate and pump with hormones, so it is a relief to read the opposite. Sanhestar, I am with Robert on this one, I hope to hear more of your opinions, I may agree with some and not others as with all opinions, but please share yours when you are compelled to. I especially enjoy reading the many contrary opinions and facts. I am assuming Elke was just pointing out something that could have been misunderstood by what you wrote, based on the smiley faces that he used. We deal with many pathogens everyday, and you are right, it is hard on an immune system to deal with all those significant pathogens at once.

I am still curious as to what vaccinations are given to cattle. If I was in a situation where someone with more authority than myself (guy that owns the farm and 40 head of beef) really wants me to get my calves vaccinated, what are the options, what may be the better choices and what should I avoid? I am curious to know, I may find myself in a situation where it would be better to keep the peace and compromise a little, than force my contrary point of view on an elder with vastly more authority. I am all for ideal, but sometimes we all have to do things that we are not happy about.

Thanks again everyone for the valuable advice, I really enjoy this group of good people.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Jen, I can picture Carl practicing this stunt with his horses in the swamp behind your sisters house. Only he is not using lines, just voice because he also armed and ready just in case the local moose have a crazy notion or two.:D Just watch, someday he will have a clip of it posted on Youtube.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I know that there are Johnes free herds out there, not most of them but some. If buying calves from a certified free herd is not possible I assume the vet has to get involved to test the calves? I know BVD-Pi tests are mandatory to go to a fair, is that the same or similar to Johnes? and here in the states what vaccinations are recommended at what time? What are the arguments for and against vaccinations? Are they available through a vet supply catalog? I know many don’t ship to NY with out an Rx. Sorry for so many questions, I know that many of you have different opinions than what the government recommends. I could just ask my state vet friends but since animal ID I am not very friendly with them and I am sure that there is another side to what they recommend. Thank you all again, I definitely forgot about Johnes, dairy health class was so long ago and it pertained to large scale industrial milk production that most of those notes have been ashes for a while now.

Be Well,

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Welcome Gordon,

Nice picture. Here are a few seed companies that you may want to try if you haven’t already, there are some great heirloom varieties out there.
http://www.fedcoseeds.com/
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/home.aspx?ct=HG
http://www.highmowingseeds.com/
http://www.turtletreeseed.com/
http://www.seedsavers.org/
http://www.seedsofchange.com/
http://www.territorialseed.com/
http://www.vermontbean.com/

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Geoff has some great haylage points. I know that the largest Thoroughbred breeding farm in NYS, feeds haylage/baleage with great success, they have been making it for years. I also have friends that feed it to 50 head of angus, a mule and a donkey, they never have problems, well maybe the donkey is a little fat. I have never heard good things about feeding horses actual fully fermented silage. At school we learned that air tight well done haylage/baleage is only partially fermented compared to what happens in a silo, similar but not complete. I wish I had my notes with me, but i am sure this could be looked up if anyone is interested. There are also readily available fermented hay products that are sold specifically for horses, Dengie is one from Canada that several show horses that I know are fed exclusively. Once they are used to it they seem to like it and there is less waste, but you have to be careful, because they are more likely to eat bad weeds in a bale because it all tastes the same. Sheep and goats do well on haylage/baleage too.

erika

[dominiquer60]

I see the tie vs box stall debate similar to most other discussions, bits, blinders and yokes, it is all about what works best for you. On an almost daily basis I see 6 digit show horses rotting in their box stalls from boredom. The lucky ones get regular turnout and have a private barn with 12×12 stalls, these are by far usually the least neurotic. The less fortunate live in 9’6″X9’6″ temporary stalls, get the tar ridden out of them, and maybe get hand walked for a while later in the day, the rest of the day they are in their cell. They crib, weave, stand with butts to the door, fight over the tops of the stalls and in general are miserable.

I think either type of stall works fine as long as the horses get worked, have a chance for turnout and sleep comfortably. Sleep is important and they all do it, I love working in the stables at night and listening to all the horses sleeping, snoring and dreaming. There is no doubt that they dream, some really get into it like my dog, running and nickering in their sleep. I have also seen horses sleep in tie stalls, sheds, pastures, a bedded alley way, etc. It is nice to give them a well bedded box stall with a bank to rest their head on like a pillow, but I know that i will never be able to afford that much bedding or space in “my barn.” They both have their place and a combination is good, for example my father owns a turn of the century (1900, not 2000) barn that has 3 tie stalls and a box, it is always nice to have options.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

Oh, the catching up one has to do after a few days off.

I have enjoyed procrastinating going to bed by reading the entire thread, it was well worth my time. There have been too many great points to focus on at once, thank you everyone experienced and not so much so.

One thing that keeps bothering me is the definition of “Old School.” Jason gave it a good spin, but Manes you continue to see it as only negative, it really bothers me. It seems that more overly abusive hog tying, flying W, break some skin or ribs in the process methods are “Old School” to you. Where as to the rest of the group it involves traditional methods using observation, routine, desensitizing and experience to know when to proceed. I am no expert, I have trained a few horses to ride and a couple to drive. I have seen some terrible methods that include fear, pain and force that have involved standardbreds, drafts, warm, hot, cold and tepid bloods. I have also observed gentle, controlled, safe, methods that have involved saddles, singles, teams, 3 ups, halters, no halters and with all types of horses. I feel that throughout history there has always been his way, her way and everybody else way. I am sure that there were gentle horse whisper types long before giant marketing schemes made money off of books and videos, and there has always been the harsh type as well. So it hurts me to see “Old School” used to imply harsh training methods when it really could mean any training method passed down through generations. It seems like the important thing to this group is that training is as resistance free and effective as possible. I am sure that a horse can be just as terrorized if it is poorly trained as a single as it could be poorly trained in a team.

Manes if you were to go to any of the working farms of any of the more experienced folks contributing to this sight and single out a younger animal that was not extensively trained as a single, you would have a pleasant experience 9 times out of 10 (there are always exceptions, even with your single method). These are good horse people, some of the best, they don’t need a fan club to be credible, you would see that their horses are well behaved, content, safe and respectful, not fearful run away from you like the obviously misused Halflingers that you refer to.

Some of your methods are similar to that which you object to. I think it is great how you expect your horses to stand, these folks do too, maybe to have a cig, but more often to fell a tree, clear a path, fill a wagon etc. It really is similar if you think about it. My fondest memories of college involved an “Old School” pair of Clyde ponies, mare and stud. We would spread manure by moon light after chores. Often the spreader was broke so we spread “Old School” with pick forks off the back of a wagon. We looped the lines up and they would “walk up,” turn and “whoa” by voice until the wagon was empty. This team would often place well at state fair as well, something tells me that they were broke the more gentle “Old School” way.

Erika

[dominiquer60]

A blonde joke that a blonde can laugh at! 🙂

[dominiquer60]

The “cow tax” is a proposal to propose a bill, just something that the EPA threw out there for discussion. Of course the media and Farm Bureau have hyped it up to be more a more advanced thought, it looks like something that will not actually be proposed anytime soon. I am sure that Farm Bureau will notch is up as a bill defeated even though it was just a pre-proposal, just something to give themselves a pat on the back for.

[dominiquer60]

OldKat you are right about a lot of things especially the cattle and horse bit, but it doesn’t disqualify you at all. The big thing that I disagree with is that I put a lot of hope on one human everyday and for the rest of my life, me. I have to take responsibility for myself and I hope that I make good decisions for me, my family and my intimate community. I do hope that Obama and friends manage to start to improve the man made craziness that is our government and economy, I won’t celebrate until they show progress. I will do my best to support my causes and vote, but at the end of the day, the decisions that I make have the greatest influence on me, therefore my greatest hope lies in myself.

[dominiquer60]

Contact Sara at NYS Ag & Markets (518) 457-3502, and don’t tell her I sent you, she is the one that supposedly sends the forms to get out of the program.

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