[OldKat]

@near horse 8450 wrote:

Hi,

I’m trying to figure out what to do for perimeter fencing on my pastures (nothing there right now) and would like to see a picture or 2 of your hi tensile/fiberglass post setup Donn. Is there something already at your picture site? Otherwise, I’d like to see your corners, the fiberglass posts and a long shot of the fence. I know it sounds like I’m being demanding but I do hate fencing and would like something easier and as effective as the damn woven wire.

Also, OldKat, any more info/pics on the “PUSH POST” system for T-posts?

Thanks again for your help.

Geoff,

I haven’t forgotten about it, but haven’t taken any pictures either! Going to New Jersey this week, so I will not be back over to the place where my cattle are until a week from tomorrow. I’ll take some pictures then. My daughter will be home from Auburn for that week, so I’ll get her to help me post them. I can’t ever figure that stuff out.

[OldKat]

@bivol 8464 wrote:

about halter breaking… after she becomes approachable, first you put the halter on, just the halter, and let her go with the daily routine. she will, i guess, settle in soon, and pay no attention to the halter. also, try to couple the introduction to the halter with something nice, give her a treat.
put on the halter every day until she pays no att. to it.
after that phase tie a rope to the halter and let it drag on the ground. after she gets used to it, hold the rope while going to the pasture.
i have no idea, however, how to make her respect the halter. the cattle follow the halter because they think halter is stronger than they.

maybe get her to a place she’s never been to, like a forest, and then walk around? she’ll ask for your lead.

Yes, letting her drag a lead rope for several days first is a good idea. We usually did that, but not always. The rest of the suggestions are sound, too. I never took a calf out of the paddock until they were leading very well, so I can’t address the part about taking her somewhere that she has never been. Can’t say it wouldn’t work, but I never have done it either.

[OldKat]

@Greensky 8451 wrote:

We just got a 7 month old heifer (milking shorthorn cross) and we want to train her to pull. She’s not very tame so we have her with our goats so we can catch her more easily. She also has a halter on. I know the first step is to tame her, but how? Any suggestions for beginning training her? Are there books or online resources for knowing where to start? Thanks so much for any help.

I would tie her up to a stout fence, in a place protected from the sun and/or rain. Let her stay tied for several hours a day, up to maybe 4 or 6, if possible. When you untie her try leading her to water and her feed. Usually that will work. Do this everyday for about a week and she should start leading pretty easily. Oh, and while she is tied it is a good time to start putting your hands all over her; start around the front end and work your way back and down her body. Stand in such a way that you can avoid getting kicked or jumped on if she lunges. Don’t do this before about the third day of being tied though. Earlier than that is probably asking too much of her.

However, if she doesn’t accept this type of halter breaking/acclimation, don’t be afraid to tie her to the bumper of a pickup, to the upper link arm on a tractor or to an all-terrain vehicle like a Gator if you have one. Tie her up fairly short, no more than 24 to 30″ of lead rope. Snap on a second lead rope and let someone walk along behind the vehicle. Often after one or two tugs from the vehicle the calf will start to walk with slack in the lead and the person walking along can start to put more “pull” on the lead. First progression is to give her more slack and a longer lead from the vehicle, maybe 4 foot. Soon you can probably turn her loose from the vehicle and let the other person try leading her. This is NOT job for a child or a small man or woman. Get someone with some mass about them (a bigger person that is) to do this so if the calf tries to run they can stop them. Wear gloves, heavy work gloves with a good grip.

Another option, if you have access to a small donkey or mule that is halter broken is to tie the calf’s lead rope to the ring on the donkeys halter, give the calf about 6 feet or so of rope. The donkey will generally convince the calf to come along pretty quickly. I’ve never done this, but have seen it done dozens of times and it seems to work. The other things, above, I have done probably a couple hundred times in the last 40 years. They ALMOST always work. If she sulls, and lays down let me know. That has to be handled differently, but can be managed.

NOTE: If this is the first calf you have ever broken to lead, let me caution you of this: NEVER tie the lead rope around your waist or your wrist thinking that you can keep them from getting away from you. You can’t, and even a relatively young animal is much stronger than you are. Don’t wrap the lead around your hand, which is a good way to get a broken hand. DON’T get hurt, it is not worth it.

Once you have her leading she will calm down really quickly. However, it is unlikely that she will become gentle by just staying in a pen. You pretty much have to take the agenda to her.

Good luck with your heifer.

[OldKat]

@danb 8390 wrote:

As I reach back into the deep, dusty recesses in my memory, I sort of recall discussing poems like this in my english literature class in college (25+yrs. ago). I believe this would be called a interpretive poem (or something like that) in which the author plants mental images in the mind of the reader, and then allows the reader to draw his/her own conclusions regardless of the authors original intent. Personally, I think that about the time I hung a bunch of old pig bones on the clothesline I’d have some pretty serious explaining to do to the sweet and wonderful wife:D

… it sure brought back a bunch of memories for me.

danb; I once took a British Literature class in college, because I had my schedule all set up the way I way I wanted it only to find that the English class I wanted was full. So I went to the English Department table (remember going to the different departments to register for classes?) and said “What courses do you offer at such and such time?” After the prof in charge told me British Literature, he said “Young man, what … may I ask is your major? I don’t believe I know you” (The class in question was set up for English majors & at an advanced level at that) When I told him “Agriculture Education” he said “OH, NO! That will NEVER do!” However, I persisted and he allowed me to take the class.

It was, uhhh, DIFFERENT to say the least. I passed it, and you know what? Bet you are thinking I’m gonna say something here like “and I was a better student for it.” Well you would be wrong, because I wasn’t. I will say this however; the old prof knew what he was talking about when he tried to steer me away from the class! It wasn’t a good class for an Ag Ed major! 😀

Also, one time I was at a conference in Dallas which had nothing to do with SFJ, or probably anything most on this board find interesting. Along about day three a bunch of us were standing in the hall at a break and a guy mentioned something that he was looking to buy, but couldn’t find. I said “Give me your phone number and when I get home I will look in my Small Farmers Journal for an ad I saw for that very product & I’ll give you a call with the contact information”

He was glad for the lead, but another guy standing there said “YOU take the Small Farmers Journal?” in an incredulous tone. This guy could best be described as having very likely been central to the hippie movement some 40 years ago, but having not quite moved beyond it. So I said “Sure do, have for years. Why do you ask?” His answer struck me as odd then, and still does. He said “You don’t LOOK like someone that would take the Small Farmers Journal!” I couldn’t resist egging him on just a little, so I said in my most sincere mock concerned voice “Oh My Gosh! 😮 I didn’t even know there was an APPROVED SMALL FARMERS JOURNAL LOOK. Silly me!” The rest of the folks got a laugh out of it, and he kinda chuckled too. I did notice though that he stayed on the opposite side of the room from me for the rest of the conference!

I guess it really is true; different strokes for different folks. :p

[OldKat]

@highway 8287 wrote:

He was an Amish work horse and was purchased from the New Holland PA Auction.

… but I have a guess as to what it MIGHT be, but I am going to PM it you. Then we will wait and see what Carl, Donn, Plowboy, Jason or some of the other true teamsters say. I just want to see how close I am on target before stating publicly what I think the cause might be, heavy on the “might”.

[OldKat]

I don’t have an answer, but just curious; what WAS his background before you got him?

[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 8280 wrote:

What started as a labor of love, has turned into outright labor, and I know Lynn has been trying hard for several years to find someway that he remains inspired by SFJ, which has led to a more eclectic expression.

In my mind it is still the best publication that I can subscribe to. There is no other publication that is more connected to the community that I have interest in.

One person’s creative expression is often misunderstood by many, and SFJ has always been an attempt by Lynn to include the expressions of many in concert with his own, a huge, uncertain, and generous enterprise.

Carl

I have subscribed to SFJ since 1983 and have a copy of every edition they have ever printed. An Amish guy in Pennsylvania named Andy Raber introduced me to it & I have taken it ever since.

I never did get much into the editorials or the letters to the editor for that matter, just skimmed through them. Mainly I focused on the actual articles. Last year they had a deal where you could sponsor a subscription for a high school library, FFA chapter, etc and they would match it with another subscription to that school or to another school.

My wife and I are big on FFA, me being a former Ag teacher, so we sponsored 3 high schools. Last week I was visiting one of the Ag teachers at one of the high schools that we had sponsored. He told me “I was looking through the magazine that you sent to us, man there is some radical stuff in the editorials and the letters to the editor. WHO subscribes to this stuff anyway?” I mumbled something about “forget about the editorials, just have your kids look at the articles”. Kind of an awkward moment. Not sure we will sponsor any schools when the renewal comes up.

That said; I know Lynn has had a tough time trying to keep all of his irons in the fire. I don’t have any idea how he has been able to do all the things he does AND put out a periodical. It has to be tough keeping that many balls in the air at the same time. Kind of like a friend of mine use to say “sort of like wrestling an octopus”. Hopefully he will be able to figure something out, because as Carl said it is still what I consider to be one of the best publications I can subscribe to. (For me it is for the draft animal info)

[OldKat]

@grey 8265 wrote:

I really like the super-fat bar-shaped “logging bits” of yesteryear, however I have yet to find one larger than a 6″. Both my mares take a 6.5″ bit and one would actually be more comfortable in a 6.75″ in some cases. I guess I will eventually have to stretch a couple of 6″ bits to get them to fit. And by “stretch” I mean cut in half and add a bit of metal to the middle.

Many a cheap mullen-mouth bar or broken-mouth snaffle bit that comes with a headstall is chrome-plated. Once that chrome plating starts to flake off, the raw edges of the plating can be razor-sharp. I use stainless or base metal, some of which may or may not have copper somewhere on the mouthpiece. All the chrome-plated bits that come through my place get tossed or used in art.

I have tried most of the shanked driving bits out there but my horses object to the curb chain. In my case, I have found that if I can’t get it out of them with a bar or broken-mouth snaffle, I won’t be getting it out of them with any other sort of bit. I end up trading one problem for another. So for driving I stick with any one of several types of snaffle bits: mullen-mouth bar, D-ring, full-cheek. I have had a loose-ring snaffle pinch before, but my mares have awful fleshy lips.

I do have a low port curb grazing bit with a leather curb strap that I use for riding. Both my mares seem happy in it.

Same here; chrome plated = No Bueno

I’m lucky, I guess, because my mares don’t have real wide mouths. Mostly I can find bits to fit them at local saddle shops if I go to the larger sized bits that they carry.

[OldKat]

@Jean 8237 wrote:

Hey Jake,

Can’t help you with the west of Montreal question, but I have a question for you.

Do you consider your Canadians a draft horse? I also own a Canadian and I call him a draft, however when I showed him in a draft farm class last summer there was grumbling that he was not really a draft horse and I should not have been allowed to show him. The judge must not have minded, since he placed us first in the ladies team farm class, but some other people showing did mind.

I do not intend to show him much, but he did love the attention and really perked up when the crowd clapped as we did our victory lap. We were teamed with a spotted draft.

I would love to see some pictures of your Canadians.

Jean

Jean,

A friend of mine told me recently that a guy we both know use to show his Halflingers at a certain draft horse club’s shows. He won nearly every class he competed in, time after time. So guess what they did? Yep, you guessed it … they added a rule that Halflingers couldn’t compete based on the “they are ponies, not horses” line of thinking. I believe if you are going to have a competition it should be open to all comers. If a guy with a Shetland – Fjord cross beats me, so be it. I guess that is why I stay away from the clubs, but that is just me.

I second the motion about some pictures. I know nothing about the Canadians (the horses; the people either for that matter!), what little I have seen of them makes me think they are an attractive looking animal. I would like to see some pictures, too

[OldKat]

@Rod 8193 wrote:

Hi Old Kat

I use a tongue on my sled (same thing). Mine are 9′-6″ for Halfingers and my ox team. I bought a forecart and the tongue was 10′ standard. Another way to determine the length is to measure the distance from the draw bar back to the end of the horses and add 2 or 3 feet.

Mine are mostly wood except for one I made from 2″ box tube x 1/8 wall. I am not sure about this one in bending but will find out. I have a wagonette that came with a steel pole. This unit is made of double pipe, one of which slides inside the other so you can adjust the length, a nice feature and it allows you to use thinner stock as it’s mostly doubled up. I think its 2-1/2 or 3 inch diameter and has holes where you can drop a pin in the adjust the length..

I was thinking something along the lines of 2.5 inch pipe would do, thanks for the info.

[OldKat]

@Biological Woodsman 8192 wrote:

What a great thread, such common sense considerations by all involved. I am adding this comment to try and post a photo of a hard pair of logging horses that have been put on the sulky plow for the first time this past weekend.

Of course I had to be hard headed myself and put the Pioneer Plow and stout horses into a twenty five year paddock and plow it uphill…. it worked but it was really work. This pulled about like 7000 pounds in a flat bottom sled in a gravel parking lot….

I guess we will put some potatoes and onions in this ground for fall storage veggies sold through out little network here in the mountains and then back into some grass for continuing the paddock needs which we always have on the place.

Hope it will post and isn’t to big as an attachment.

You know Jason; I could really come to like those Suffolk horses of yours. I have been a lifelong fan of the Black & Grays, but it is hard to NOT appreciate a sound set of honest workers … regardless of the hair color. Yours are definitely ambassadors for their breed.

I can’t really see the bottom(s) on your plow is it a one way plow or is it reversible? I’m not that far along with my team, but I’m starting to look around for that sort of equipment so I was just curious what is out there. :confused:

[OldKat]

@Vicki 8212 wrote:

My book says injectable ivermectin for mange mites, also for scabies mites. Beginning between legs and going where hair is thin sounds like pattern for mange mites. Whether lice or mites, treat all the animals in contact and clean brushes, combs, etc. and isolate from other cattle until treated.

Really? I used pour-on for my cows that had this same pattern of hair loss & it worked fine. Then again, I didn’t have a diagnosis of exactly what they had so I was just guessing.

BTW: It was winter time & I didn’t want to muddy up the creek to cross them over to where the pens are located (not that there was actually that much water in the creek at the time), so I put out range cubes, a few at a time to get them standing in little groups. Then I used a large syringe, sans the neddle to measure up the amount of pour on that I wanted. I would just walk by and use the syringe to dose it out along their spine. Worked like a charm.

[OldKat]

Nice job, Rod.

[OldKat]

@near horse 8205 wrote:

Hi Robert,

Sorry – I brought a camera but didn’t take any pictures. I was just too excited about getting to spend time working the horses. There were A LOT of other folks out taking pictures – tripods and the whole 9-yards. I don’t know how to find out who was taking the pics but I’ll look into it.

An interesting sidelight, this field is right along the 2-lane highway that heads toward Seattle so it sees a fair amount of traffic. Since the weather was nice and it was “Mom’s weekend” at the local university, there were plenty of people out looking for stuff to do. Anyway, there was a group of maybe 5 to 15 motorcyclists going by and one guy must have been watching the plowing a little too close as he drove off the road, down the shoulder and out into the plowed ground 😮 I didn’t see it happen but when I came around for another pass, a couple of guys were pushing his bike back out of the field and there was this weird single tire track in the freshly turned soil. The guy was alright (I’m not even sure he fell over) and the horses didn’t even seem to notice. People-

LMAO: Tears came to my eyes as I was picturing this. Not laughing at the guys misfortune, but I’ve done stuff like that before so I can relate.

[OldKat]

@jenjudkins 8175 wrote:

It occurs to me….reading this thread…that there are as many ways to work with an animal as there are personalities or purposes in which an idea becomes reality.

I definately value the connection I have with my animals…the way they try to please me and sometimes ‘mess’ with me. I dig their individuality. I like triing to figure out where their heads are at, whether they enjoy what they are doing or whether they are scared or bored. It IS what fascinates me about horses and being able to do things with them. So I could no sooner take Ronnie’s approach as I could fix an engine….just no aptitude for it, I guess.

I can see the point though. If you are making a living with your ‘beast of burden’ …and btw, I am not…there isn’t alot of room for ‘paralysis of analysis’. You just have to get things done. And I’m not convinced that horses don’t prefer that approach in many cases….they are afterall born followers.

Interesting discussion.

…EXACTLY what you mean Jen. I DON’T work mine for a living either; if I did I might see things differently. However, for the time being I just enjoy trying to figure out what makes them tick, how to stay one jump ahead of them and how to make darn sure they are doing what I have requested them to do. I didn’t coddle my kids when they were growing up, and I am not coddling my mares either.

This discussion and similar have reinforced for me, however, the NEED to find constructive WORK for my youngsters to do. Donn told me that off line, and as usual, he is correct. It seems to me that the people that DO work their animals for a living have little need to go through the iterations that the rest of us do. Likely it is because both teamster, drover, muleskinner, etc and animal partner(s) are so focused on the work that there is little time for inappropriate behavior. I think most animals are smart enough to do what needs to be done, and if there isn’t enough work to do they sit around trying to figure out how they can play you like a banjo. 😉 Still, neither of my mares nor I are likely to win any physical fitnness awards anytime soon … we just don’t do enough work.

BTW: I broke probably 50 or 60 show calves or maybe more to lead EXACTLY the way they are training the mules … behind a tractor. Not a good example I know, like comparing apples to basketballs, but it worked. I just never thought about using it to train equine type animules (weak pun, I know!)

[Author]

Posts