[OldKat]

@Rod 3985 wrote:

Did you ever get the feeling that the idiots are in charge of the world and especially the EPA?

Anybody using one of the EPA designed and mandated gas cans yet. Must have been designed by an office bureaucrat living in a condo who never used one to even fill a lawn mower. It takes 10 minutes to put 5 gallons of Diesel into my Bobcat tank all the while holding the can at the right angle and at the same time pressing the spout down to release the air intake on the nozzle. Anouther good reason to use the horses.

Anybody know what fajitas are? May not be popular in all parts of the country, but probably 25 years ago they caught on big-time down here. This is a Mexican dish of marinated beef skirt that has been tenderized and grilled. Served on a warm flour tortilla, with grilled onions, pico de gallo and possibly some guacamole … simply wonderful.

Why do I bring them up in this thread? Because of the way they are served … on a hot cast iron griddle, sizzling hot and producing a white cloud of “smoke”. Make sense? Well, probably 10 to 12 years ago the rocket scientists at the EPA were making a big push to force all restaurants that served fajitas to have “fajitas only” serving rooms separate from all other parts of the facility. Seems they were concerned about the health hazards of all that second hand smoke being inhaled by the patrons. I’ve been told that only after they started hearings on the subject did they learn that the “smoke” was actually “steam” from the grilled onions on the hot caste iron. Not sure if this is a true story, but it was widely reported at the time & I never saw anyone debunk it. Makes ‘ya kind of wonder…

[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 3979 wrote:

I finally have a minute to expound on the ice shoe thing.

Practical application of animal power depends on giving advantage to the animals when applying their power to a task. Frozen conditions, especially ice, or at least hard packed frozen snow, offer incredible advantage for transporting logs, or any heavy load for that matter.

Borium and drill-tek offer some protection against slipping if you are just traveling on a icy road, or crossing some icy patches on a skid trail, but when you get 600, 800, or 1000 BF on a sled on ice you want to have shoes with fail-safe traction.

I got several pair of these drive caulk shoes about 15 years ago, and found them to be excellent. There are dropped forged steel so they wear very little. The weak link is that they haven’t been made for years, and I eventually ran out of caulks. Last winter I was told of an old-timer who had a bucket of shoes in his barn, including three un-opened boxes of caulks.

I only use these shoes in the winter, to save them explicitly for use on ice. During the 3 other months, I use a store bought pulling shoe, which are virtually useless right now with all the rain and ice we’ve been getting. I plan to put on the drive caulks this weekend, then get the bobsled out and start packing a trail.

They do look dangerous, but I have found that the horses get very few injuries, and it is always winter when I use them, so the cuts are clean, and generally heal quickly. The biggest problem is they cut up the barn floor wicked.

Carl.

That is funny Carl. Strangely enough I can relate to it. I say our summer here is 9 months and the other three months are “not-summer”, as there is no real winter (Except maybe this year. I saw yesterday that Houston was ahead of Philly, NY and Boston for December snowfall)

Interesting stuff nevertheless.

[OldKat]

@Patrick 3937 wrote:

I work in the veterinary industry, in MA, but my farm is in NH. I deal mostly with small animals, but we of course touch base with other areas within the profession. Kat, tell that young lady that she would most likely be welcomed with open arms in most parts of central and northern New England. In central and northern NH, things are very much like the others describe in ME and NY. Large animal veterinarians are in very short supply, and I often hear similar stories about long waits or distances traveled to get care. Cattle people in particular have a hard time, as some large animal vets specialize in horses. The NH Dept of Agriculture has been talking about some incentives for getting more large animal vets up here, but it’s been nothing more than bureaucratic BS so far, from what I’ve seen. Western MA has a shortage too. So does eastern MA, but it’s not quite as bad, especially if you’re a horse person. Overall, there is a severe shortage of qualified doctors and technicians within veterinary medicine, in both large and small animal practices. It’s getting worse, as the population grows, but vet schools don’t increase their enrollment capacity. As older LA vets retire, there are fewer and fewer to take their place. In some ways you can’t blame them really. Who wants to work in cold, wet, filthy conditions, when you could make the same or often much more money in a nice comfy modern indoor animal hospital, only dodging the occasional bite rather than a 1000 lb animal which can put you in the hospital easily if you’re not careful? The new grads have school loans to think about too, often well over 100K by the time they even start their first job.

Currently I am in a good situation for vet care. There are 3 clinics in the town where I live (population <4,000), two of which have 2 or more vets and both clinics are mixed practices. The third is a small animal/equine practice. The town 13 miles to the south of us is a little larger, similarly supplied with vets. The town 17 miles to the north is a town of about 12,000 & has probably even more vets per capita. The thing that concerns me is nearly ALL of the vets at these clinics, save the vet at the small animal/equine clinic in my town, are 55 years old or older. (The son of one of the vets in one of the neighboring towns has joined the practice within the past year)

The local clinic that I use is a father/son practice; with the father practicing there since 1952 … figure his age out. The elderly vet that I mentioned is Dr. James Lamp, he has been very vocal about his concerns in this area for a good 10 to 15 years. I started following it closely probably 5 years ago. Every time I meet a new, young vet (usually an intern at one of the area clinics) I always ask what type of practice appeals to them. Frequently they say something like “I’d like to move to a small town and work for a mixed practice, but I will probably have to go to the city and work in a small animal practice”. When I ask why, the answer is almost always exactly what you stated … huge student loan balances that have to be paid off. The city practices allow them to make more money, faster.

[OldKat]

Thanks for the feedback. We are starting to see some of these same issues in Texas, which was one reason I was a little surprised to learn that Texas A&M had allowed someone from another part of the country to take a spot in the vet school.

I’m not associated in any way with T A&M, or ATM as it is known locally, but there is some discussion that says if a youngster declares a preference for a large animal practice or a mixed animal practice they are not likely to be accepted into vet school. Officials from the vet school say they are not turning out these types of vets like they use to, because fewer “qualified” students are expressing an interest in this type of practice. I don’t know which is really the case.

[OldKat]

@jenjudkins 3903 wrote:

Anybody who ever said that working with draft animals was too much trouble, never wrestled with tractor tire chains for an afternoon! Give me a break! I’d rather wrestle a crocadile!

Besides the carbon consequences, there are semi-annual mid-deck mower exchanges as well! My aging body likes animal power much better! Peanut is looking more and more valuable by the day!

Gosh Jen, never had THAT problem!
😀

[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 3867 wrote:

Food will always be a distraction, whether it’s a bale of hay on a sled, or brush in the woods. I think it good to expose them to it, so that you can insist that they stop and stand and work for you regardless of the distractions. You aren’t going to let them put their heads down and eat grass every time you stop them in the summer. They’re young, and will try anything until they get your guidance not to. Things seem to be going great. Good job Matt.
Carl

Have never really fooled with any real oxen. Did train a show steer to pull a cart one time, but I couldn’t answer this with anything approaching the understanding that others have.

That said, I do something with my mares that you might find interesting. I feed them in a tie stall, USUALLy (but not always) tied. I let them see me put the feed in the troughs, but I do not let them eat before they are released. Sometimes they are haltered, other times not. Either way it is “walk” right up the edge of the shed, “whoa” to a full stop, “steady” for a minute or so, then “step” one step and hold it, “step” repeat until they are just about a foot or two from the trough, then “back” or actually “b-a-a-a-c-c-c-k-k-k” stretched out real slow. I stop them with another “whoa“, hold that for a minute or so and then “click-click” to release them.

Sometimes I do this individually, sometimes as a team. They know that once we start this they will NOT eat until they go through this exercise, which I usually do 3 or 4 trimes a week. Poor Maggie will actually be blowing saliva bubbles before she gets to eat! Point is she will hold until I tell her otherwise.

Have never left for any long period of time to test how long they will stand there without going after the feed. I do know that I have put out feed and then taken them to the round pen to longe, or otherwise train. Bad idea. They wanted to push through every “whoa“, “steady” , “walk“, “trot” or whatever. If I give them a partial ration first or don’t measure out their feed at all they tend to respond much better. Here again, maybe there is some value though in setting up a training exercise when they know the feed is in the trough to teach them to focus on what we are doing.

Not sure if any of this would transfer to an ox or not; my guess is it would not. At least I am reasonably sure I couldn’t get any of my beef cows to do anything similar.

[OldKat]

@PestoPower 3869 wrote:

Brown draft harness brass spotting and solid brass hardware . Breastcollar type for light carts or show (meadowbrook cart, or light single sleigh. Absolutely exceptional! Asking 800- will check, I think it is a Smuckers, very high end work 🙂 They don’t get any more soft and supple than this.

Black draft harness with heavy chrome spotting. Solid harness, but noy top of the line. Also breastcollar style. 250

Collars in various sizes- all leather and well cared for.

Cleaning the tack room 😉

Beth

Beth,

Could you please send me a PM with your contact info? Phone number etc. (unless you are just willing to post it here on the board … I wouldn’t, but that is just me)

Thanks

[OldKat]

@LaNette 3799 wrote:

Try checking with Aaron Martin Harness Ltd. Their on-line catalog can be viewed at: http://www.aaronmartin.com. Look under stable supplies then click on the fly nets. I know at one time they were made of leather. You might want to check with them and see if they are still selling the leather ones or they have gone to the nylon style made by Weaver.

LaNette

Good folks.

[OldKat]

@jenjudkins 3860 wrote:

I’m looking for good second cut hay in square bales. My local guy just upped his hay prices to 7.00 a bale! Is he nuts!!!! I’m in central NH. Thanks. Jennifer.

I have no idea what so-called “horse quality” hay sells for in other parts of the country, but where I live the most commonly used grasses for horse hay are any of the hybrid Bermuda grasses; Coastal, the Tifton’s (44 etc) and Jigs. The in-field prices for these had been running $3.50 to $4.0 / square bale for the last couple of years (up sharply because of the nearly continuous drought that we have been experiencing since about 2000). The in-barn prices run $1.0 to $1.50 higher. With diesel prices at about $5.0 per gallon for much of the growing season I suppose those tractors were a little more expensive to operate, so higher prices (at least around here) were probably to be expected.

I was able to buy native grass hay, eastern gamma grass, at $4.0 in-field. I bought round bales of the same out of the barn this past weekend at $50.0 per roll. They eat this stuff like a kid eats cotton candy. These are 1,100 to 1,150 lbs rolls, net wrapped. The square bales tested at 9.9% CP, but I forget the TDN number (it was high). The round bales came from the same field, but not sure the same cutting as the square bales.

If you figure square bales at 60 lbs, and rolls at 1,100 lbs that figures out to about $2.70 per square bale equivalent. I am setting up next year to go all round bales, IF I can buy them.

[OldKat]

@416Jonny 3630 wrote:

Well Jason, I saw the commercial for it earlier that day and said to myself: “I’m gonna watch that!”
…

“Oooooo….look at the loggers, they’re using mules! Awwww…..how quaint!”

…

Leaves an odd taste in the mouth, like sucking on a greasy penny.

Not trying to diminsh anything you are saying here 416Jonny, but I think that is the funniest analogy I have ever seen on any forum, any where! I was laughing so hard I had to sit back and catch my breath. Which wouldn’t have been a problem except that I happened to be at work at the time & got some funny looks from some passerby’s.

[OldKat]

Carl,

Thanks for the informative post. I always wondered why no horse logging had developed in the Piney Woods or Big Thicket area north & slightly east of Houston, Texas, yet did in the Northeast part of the state. You post solves that riddle for me. Big Thicket primarily equals Southern yellow pine; a strong, but inexpensive tree (actually 4 species, but mostly Loblolly pine). It is used almost exclusively for framing material. Also in the mix are a few lower end hardwoods, with very few truly valuable species present.

Whereas only 100 miles or so further north we get into some better hardwoods & it is my understanding that there are some people that use horses there for logging the smaller, and maybe more eco-sensitive tracts. At any rate your post gives me a starting point to think about this issue.

You might be interested to know that my wife’s family had about 400 acres of pine forest on the very northern edge of Houston until about 5 years ago, just about 2 or 3 miles from Bush IAH (the large airport). On the 55 acre piece where the house was located we practiced a culture similar to what you described, but really more for the aesthetic aspect than anything else. I did notice that when we select harvested timber (2 times during the years I was in the family) the larger, straighter trees tended to be in that tract.

[OldKat]

@Iron Rose 3458 wrote:

All horses are different and what works for one may not work for another. Some are just plain nasty but most are just plain spoiled. Most likley your horse as gotten away with taking his foot away and every time he dose it reinforces the problem. He needs to shown that his actions are not acceptable. Over the past 35 years of shoeing all types of horses there have been some real bad ones, but all left with iron on. I won’t go into details as not to start a big argument about how. My advice is to find a farrier/trainer that will handle problem horses and let him do his job. The second option is to use some trangulizer as needed (although I have never seen a horse learn anything with drugs )

One of my mares was starting to develop some similar habits to the hombre in question & I knew I had to do something about it. Background: I seldom use a farrier, though they are plentiful in my part of the country. Most in our area are undependable (i.e. they fail to show up when they say they will) & tend to be harsh when a horse begins to get antsy. Now I do not baby my animals, I am FIRM with them. However, I’ll be darned if some fool is going to beat on my horses. (NOT that I think Iron Rose is advocating that)

Anyway I trim my own horses hooves, but have never done my own shoeing. I had one farrier, a real dependable guy from South Africa, who I had used a few times when I had slipped a disc in my lower back and couldn’t do ANY lifting. I told him in advance that Maggie was starting to jerk her foot away from me at times, would lean on me at other times and was getting a little snorty with me. When he suggested using a sedative I was skeptical, and told him so. He said he just believed in giving them enough to take the edge off, but not so much that they were dead on their feet.

The first time he came to trim he gave both youngsters a small dose of 1/2 Ace & 1/2 Romp-em (spelling?) and we had no problems with either. The next time he came back he did the same thing, but this time we put on their first set of shoes. Same results. This was exactly this time last year. The next few times they were shod they with an Amish trainer in South Texas, but he told that there were NO problems. Since I have had them back (late April) I have pulled the shoes back off and trimmed their feet probably 4 or 5 times with no problems.

I am not saying that the sedatives “trained” them, and I would have no idea if it work in this case or not. However, maybe it calmed Maggie down just enough to let her see that no one was trying to hurt her. Overall I avoid using shortcuts and I think of using sedatives as a shortcut. Still it is possible that it did the trick in this one case. It is also possible that she responded to the Amish guy and when I got her back she was okay with her feet being handled. At any rate she is a joy to work with now, as much as trimming hooves can be a joy anyway.

[OldKat]

@Patrick 1661 wrote:

Here’s another unusual draft animal………but these are real.
http://camelphotos.com/camel_harness.html

Pre Civil War & maybe post as well camels were imported to be used as pack / draft animals by the US Army in the desert southwest. I’ve heard that the experiment failed, because it turns out that the sand that they were familiar with was of a different texture than what they were asked to navigate here. I think there were other issues as well, but bottom line is they were turned loose to fend for themselves.

Sometime in the early 20th century some skeletons of an unknown species were unearthed in West Texas. There was much speculation about what they were. After a team from the University of Texas identified them as camels there was further speculation as to how they got there. Somehow or other they came up with the theory that they were looking at the remains of the old Army experiment from 50 or 60 years before. Best I can recall this experiment was initiated when Jefferson Davis was Secretary of War.

[OldKat]

@Carl Russell 3538 wrote:

A big benefit of forecarts is that they can be used to hitch to a variety of implements used behind motorized equipment. Carl

Some of it is ground driven, too. In my area there is a cyclone seeder / fertilizer spreader that is sold to be pulled behind a garden tractor or an ATV. I saw one the other day at the feed store that I am subsidizing and pulled it by hand to see how fast the “spinner” would turn. It turns really well at low speeds, so I immediately thought of pulling it behind a forecart.

So yes, I think some ATV sized implements might work well behind a forecart.

[OldKat]

@Rick Alger 3531 wrote:

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

In ten years we’ve seen sawdust go from free for the taking to available only through brokers in thirty yard loads for around $400. Last year our bedding bill was more than double the grain bill.

So as you infer, I am contemplating a way to turn field clearings and logging slash into bedding. The chippers I have looked at are either too slow or too expensive for my budget.

I’ve thought about four-sided planers, hammermills and an arbor with multiple chain saw chains. I’m hoping someone out there with more mechanical savvy than I have will offer some insight.

Rick

Rick,

Please let us know what you come up with. I am planning on building some box stalls in a pole barn that I built some 6 or 7 years ago. These will take the place of the tie stalls that I use now in a low shed, which will be fully enclosed and converted to storage. Biggest concern right now is bedding. So I am thinking along the same lines as you.

I was thinking about this the other day. When I was a teenager there was a shop nearby that took red oak shipping pallets and disassembled them. They then planed them down & built some sort of shipping boxes for some specialized instruments. Never have figured out how much margin there had to be that product to make all of that worth it. Regardless, the shavings they produced were fabulous stuff. Long, super thin strips that would curl up into a spring like ball. VERY absorbent, and very little dust. Best of all it was FREE.

What people now use around here is baled shavings from the dimension lumber mills in Southeast Texas. They are sawing yellow pine, so the shavings are really more like chips and in my mind have too much resin in them for me to want to use for bedding. Besides that they are EXPENSIVE. I guess I got spoiled on the quality and (lack of) cost of the red oak to want to use anything else.

[Author]

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