[OldKat]

@mother katherine 19299 wrote:

Joshua,
Love the name “Sharpee” out of “Magic Marker”. Sounds like some of the gags I pull with sheep names.
Back to topic. Oldkat, were you thinking of “The Longhorns” by J Frank Dobie? I LOVE that book. When it was pulled from the local library shelves I hounded the librarian for it. Went the night before the book sale to “help” carry, unload and display books until I found it. Told the girl, “I’ll pay anything you want for it!” She thought I was nuts; but I now have my own copy: plastic wrapped and with the original dustjacket.
Kgerstner: if you can get a copy of that book, do it. I think it’s out of print, but Amazon or one of those used book sites may be able to find you one. Of course, as the guy was a Texan, the book may be right on some local library’s shelves. Try an interlibrary loan.
oxnun

mother katherine: Here is the address of the online book I was talking about; http://www.lib.utexas.edu/books/texasclassics/traildrivers/

Let me forewarn you, if you enjoy reading stories from that era you may find yourself reading this stuff for hours. Also, keep in mind this was written in the early 1900’s by people that were elderly then; so they may use language and terminology that may not be acceptable to some modern ears. i.e they are NOT politically correct.

[OldKat]

@citternman 19731 wrote:

My Mom had a pair of longhorn/ jersey cross steers that did well enough for her. I think she only had them for one 4-H season. They were red/orange lineback with black noses and had some black hair around their face like jerseys. Woe of woes, they had jersey horns. I think the jersey took the fight out of them, because they were not nearly as feisty as either of my brother’s Dexter pairs or the other brother’s Scottish highland pair.

There was a guy who had a long horn off ox that I remember pulling at the Cheshire Fair (New Hampshire). The longhorn had maybe a 5 or 6 foot span, but had the nigh one cut off so it didn’t hit his teammate in the face with it. The other horn was brass capped. He had the red/orange lineback type markings and was really skinny.

That night the was pulling was one of the best I’ve ever seen: I don’t remember how much weigh they got up to, but the stoneboat was stacked six or seven high all the way across, so maybe 10,000 or 12,000 pounds. Three-way race between the longhorn and holstein team, I think two chianina/holstien teams. The longhorn and holstein were outsized by at least a few hundred pounds and a lot of height, against the long legged chianinas.

In the final round, one of the chianina teams pulled first, all the way on the third try. The other only moved it a foot or two.

The longhorn and partner pulled a foot or so in the last round on the first try and got a false start and only moved it a few inches on the second. The longhorn kept shaking his head and giving the driver attitude, making himself pretty popular with the audience. It was so dramatic with his big horns and being the smallest ox left.

The third try they launched and as soon as they were going all the power in the arena went out, there was a general outcry but within ten seconds the power was back on. They looked like they’d made it six feet so people started cheering. The tape came out and it was 5’10”. The crowd moaned again and then started cheering as the chain came off and they circled back around toward the stands.

I caught up to the driver, whom I’d befriended earlier that day (I was 11 or 12 years old and fascinated by his team) and asked about that last pull. He said, “It was dark and they’d gone far enough.”

Cool story. I almost felt like I was there with you, watching the contest.

[OldKat]

I guess it will have to do with which size fits your needs better. If the longer one is too much of a hassle to use, then by all means stay away from it. I leased a 32′ one time and thought I would love it. I found exactly what your friends found, it was too long to use in many cases. Half the time I couldn’t get it in gates or into loading alleys because it was too long. Also, I should have mentioned that I like the 24′ better because my primary use would be to haul cattle. A 24′ stock trailer usually comes with 3 sections of 8′ each, whereas a 20′ is usually an 8′ and a 12 foot section. The three compartments allow for sorting cows in one section, a bull in another, calves in another, etc.

While the three sections usually works out better for me in hauling, like I said before I am going with a 20 footer that I already own because I already own it. Less out of pocket $$$$$.

Good luck in whatever you decide to pursue …

[OldKat]

@near horse 19707 wrote:

Well, I’m still hunting for a gooseneck trailer that can do it all. I have pretty tall horses – near 18hh. So my options are a 24ft 7’h 7’W used trailer in very good shape or a new 20 ft 7.5ftH 7W trailer. Same brand and model (price $6000 vs $7500) – I’d like your input on:

1) added height a necessity?
2) 24 ft length a little too much?
3) which would you choose?

Thanks.

All thing being equal I’d go with the 24′ used, because $1,500 is $1,500 (and 25% of 6k) & the extra 4′ might come in handy more often than you might think.

The height of the 24′ trailer might concern me a little. I have an old 20′ stock trailer that I built in 1976 and which has been sitting unused for at least 10 years. I think it it is about 6’6″ H and even with my shorter mares (17hh +/- a hair on one, 16.2 +/- on the other) that is a little too short. I have been toying with the idea of cutting the top off and adding a foot, because I can’t justify buying a whole new trailer when I have one sitting there just collecting rust. I think 7’6″ would be more than enough for my size mares, but not sure 7’0″ would cut it for horses as tall as you have.

Are the tops solid on these trailers, or are they pipe with canvass? That might make a difference.

[OldKat]

@mitchmaine 19709 wrote:

many thanks. hardest part of being an old cat.

That’s a fact. Sometimes it comes in batches; all of a sudden many old friends are no longer around.

[OldKat]

@near horse 19708 wrote:

I’d like to see paid/hired lobbyists banned – regardless of who they represent. Wipe the slate clean and start over. It’s like the lobbying cold war – who’s gonna blink first?! They both need to cease and desist. The union(s) did serve a needed purpose but morphed into these monsters with high paid leaderships and political aims. Too bad. They did some goood stuff for the poor working stiffs back in the day. I worked for a non-union shop that paid profit-sharing to keep the union out – when they thought the shareholders weren’t making enough $$$, closed the plant (I was gone by then) and everyone was laid off. Even my neighbor who started with this company (Steelcase) when they were a fledgling compny with a handful of employees – cold. No recourse for anyone. Who is SEIU? That was thrown up on RH and I don’t recognize that acronym.

I’m with you again. Big money over rides everything else regardless of whether it is right or wrong. SEIU stands for Service Employees International Union; an openly socialist organization. Strong former and current ties to the current administration. Very strong. Most people that have a visceral reaction to corporate lobbying don’t seem to have a problem at all with unions doing the exact same thing. That is amazing to me.

[OldKat]

@near horse 19698 wrote:

Thanks for your comment, Scott! While I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, I felt like a pretty small voice on RH in that debate.

The corporate power in our gov is out of control and was made even stronger when the supreme court ruled that corporations are afforded the right of “free speech” under the Constitution – they are considered individuals. Wow.

To bring it closer to home, I’m heading down to deliver some petitions to the Idaho Transportation Department regarding permitting giant loads of oil processing equipment to travel a scenic byway along a world-class fishery …. The best part – ITD used federal stimulus money to make upgrades to the highway to accommodate ExxonMobil Canada’s overlegal loads. If you want to see these things, check out http://www.fightinggoliath.org
And you, as a US citizen (US hwy 12), can comment to ITD at their website. http://www.itd.gov (I think) (closes tomorrow). Gotta run!!

Hey Geoff. I agree with you; corporate interests do have too much say in our government. Just curious what your take is on union involvement in the political process; specifically the AFL-CIO and the SEIU?

[OldKat]

Mitch, sorry to here about your friends passing. May he rest in peace.

[OldKat]

Carl, all of those would be considered to be really good prices anywhere near where I live. Are those considered good, average or high prices in your area?

[OldKat]

@jac 19610 wrote:

Hey Scott… Apparantly the saying “go west” became popular in WW1. The Western front generaly ran North/South with the allies facing East. Injured troops went West.. Earlier uses were refering to the hangmans jibot at Tyburn which in the 1700s was west of London.. so a prisoner was “going West” to his death.. The “heading South” that you guys use is becomming popular over here too.. I can only imagine it may have started when the war between the states was on and the northerners perhaps used it to imply that “South” was a less than nice place ??? or mabey its simply because South to us is down.. who knows… I dont want to start an international incident here:D…
John

I always wondered about “things going south”, too, and happened to see this question answered on The History Channel recently. It DID start in the US Civil War. When the war started a large percentage of the military happened to be soldiers and officers from southern states; Virginia and the Carolinas in particular. Initially it was assumed that these people would remain in the union army, but as the conflict amped up more and more of them elected to resign and join the confederate army instead. Some did remain in the union army, but this fact is seldom brought up. Of those that left the term used was so and so “went South” i.e. they had joined the confederate forces. That alone was probably viewed as an undesirable thing in the union controlled areas of the country, probably more so after the war and the south had been defeated. Those that “went South” had been proven to have made a poor choice. Funny thing is you hear people in the south use that term, too.

An interesting note was that Robert E. Lee happened to be stationed on the Texas border with Mexico just before this time period. Upon his return to Washington D.C. he was offered command of the union forces, not sure if it was ALL of the union forces or not. However, shortly after that Virginia seceeded from the union and he went with Virginia; he went South. Strange twist of fate.

[OldKat]

@Russel 19072 wrote:

@ OldKat, if I got into oxen I would use Afrikaners or Ngunis. Bonsmaras cant really take the cold in our part of the country. We the coldest part of South Africa, temperature drops to about -19 deg Celcius. Also the Bonsmara breeders are further north in the country. Whereas I know of farmers in my district who have Afrikaaners. Also my Grandfather used Afrikaner oxen up to the 50s so Id like to continue the “tradition”. My grandfather had two spans of 14 oxen each.
They pulled a two furrow plow and then mealies (corn) were planted afterwards.

What part of South Africa is your friend from?

Regards
Russel

Sorry Russel, I overlooked your reply to me. Just now noticed it.

I’m kind of surprised that Bonsmaras can’t take the cold weather and Afrikaners can. I would have thought that with 3/16 Hereford & 3/16 Shorthorn along with the 5/8ths Afrikaner they would be MORE cold hardy than the straight blood Afrikaner. Maybe it has something to do with them being a composite breed. Very interesting.

I understand what you are saying about family tradition. My grandfather farmed with Percheron horses, which is what I have. He was killed about 30 years before I was born so I never knew it until after I bought my first one some years ago. Still it was kind of cool knowing I had picked the same breed that he had used all those years before.

My friend was actually born in Rhodesia, or maybe it was called South Rhodesia. They had about a 125,000 hectare ranch there, but it was seized by the government when the country became Zimbabwe. I think he was 17 at the time. They then moved to South Africa, somewhere in the more northern and eastern area, forget the exact name of it.

He came to the US when apartheid ended, because he thought the same thing was going to happen again. I don’t think it did, but he wasn’t willing to take that chance. I will say this for him, he is a hustler. I mean that in a positive way. He came here with $1,700; all the SA government would allow him to leave with. He now owns a nice farm, an apartment complex, a used car dealership, a service that cleans commercial air conditioning /heating duct and also a whole string of clothes laundries. An amazingly hard working guy.

Oh, BTW: he is also a horseshoer! He says that is his “full time” job.

[OldKat]

Thanks for the explanation Mitch and Al. I guess the “High Gear” model would say so on the tool box lid? I mean otherwise how would you know which model you had?

[OldKat]

Unfortunately, I think John (JAC) is right. About 25 years ago, when I had driving horses before, I had a spring wagon that had the steel tires on the wooden wheels that kept coming loose. I did the soaking thing and it helped a little, for a few months. Then I drilled the tires out everywhere that a bolt came through the tire and the wheel felloes & replaced them with a larger stove bolt that I counter sunk into the steel tire (that stuff is harder than a wood peckers lips, by the way).

That allowed me to suck the felloes back up to the tire, but it allowed the spokes to loosen in the felloe a little; not good. I used it that way for about a year, but was never comfortable that I wasn’t going to blow out a spoke. I then took the wheels to a shop that rebuilt wheels and had the whole tires replaced with a rolled channel tire that has a solid rubber tire drawn into it. I also replaced the box in the wheels with one that has roller bearings instead of bushings and cut the steel axles and welded stubs on that would accept the bearings. Did the last two things myself. Came out pretty slick.

Wish I could tell you that it has worked well every since, but about two weeks before I finished repainting the whole thing all three of our horses were struck by lightning and killed. I never used that rig. I still have it sitting up on blocks in a shed, guess I ought to get it out and see what 25 years of storage has done to it.

[OldKat]

@clayfoot-sandyman 19498 wrote:

I got really into the idea of ‘mobstocking’ , backfencing etc after reading Voisin’s ‘Grass Productivity’ but then kind of went off the idea when I realised how tight I’d have to fence my beasts, how much fiddling with electric fences was involved, how little opportunity I’d leave my animals to seek out shade/shelter or particular plants, and how (my) sheep are masterful at getting through temporary fences.

I just opted for a lower stocking density and am gradually fencing/hedging my fields into 1-2acre areas and am upping the stocking rate gradually as I’m able to graze more effectively.
A farming friend once told me an old saying… that ‘a beast shouldn’t hear the church bells ring twice on the same field’ – I guess even in Britain some farmers in certain areas traditionally practised this sort of principle but it’s been lost since a large percentage of hedgerows got grubbed out, between the 1950’s – 1980’s, somewhere in the region of 150,000 miles in the UK is one estimate.

I had a similar issue. I lease land, and the best place I have is unfortunately 20 miles from my house. It is not possible to go there every day, much less twice daily to move cows. There was no point creating 1/2 to 1 acre cells that I can’t mange anyway. There are no youngsters living nearby or otherwise I would pay one to do it for me; assuming I could even find a reliable one.

There is an outside chance I might be able to lease a place in the near future that is only 1/2 mile from my house. If I get that place I am going to throw every MIG concept I can think of at it and let the chips fall where they may.

[OldKat]

@clayfoot-sandyman 19491 wrote:

….It’s an interesting thought, I can’t help but think though that the ancient wild cattle wondered over vast areas, seeking out forage in specific locations at specific times of year, and weren’t squeezed up into little fields. So many problems associated with compaction, grass varieties, soil fertility etc weren’t there because the land was inherently fertile enough and offered the right forage for cattle to stay for short periods of time and then move on without damaging the ground.
We keep them longer than they’d probably like to stay in a given location and the only way that I know to really deepen the fertility of a field so that it can offer more is through applying compost, which applied at the right time adds humus which as we well know is the foundation of healthy soil. My experience of just allowing the cattle to graze and muck the field as they go doesn’t really add much because one is simply cycling nutrient through the cow eating the grass and returning it directly to the field, albeit transformed and partially broken down but it’s not really targetted as in well composted FYM being applied on a specific field and a lot is lost through exposure to the elements when it’s not been broken down to stable humus. Ultimately if one is aiming for closing the inputs from outside so that a farm is relatively self enclosed for fertility then one is probably just moving ones nutrient budget around the farm to some degree, but I think if you don’t do compost at all then a lot more must be lost through leaching and gaseous release?
But you’ve probably had other experiences and I’d be intrigued to know (the proof being in the pudding!)…..still intending on coming up by the way though will be after students break up, up to my arm pits in paper work at present! Ed

Ed,

I pretty much thought the same thing before I started experimenting with this stuff, but so far I have not experienced any compaction problems etc. In fact I think I have LESS compaction than I did when the cattle had access to the entire place anytime they wanted.

Greg Judy, one of the frequent contributors to the Stockman Grass Farmer wrote an article recently describing how he now has his cell sizes down to the size where he can move them to a new cell every 12 hours. He has his cells PURPOSELY designed so that they are trampling some of the grass down, defecating and urinating on some of it and then moving on to a fresh cell. He said they do not revisit that cell until the grass has fully regrown, yet is still lush. He said his soil fertility and structure is soaring. I have met Greg before. He is one of the most visible faces for holistic grazing that I know of in the US, outside the consultants that are promoting these concepts. I think that if Greg says something is so, it probably is because he struck me as a straight shooter. In other words I have no reason to doubt him.

Thing is, you would just have to try some of this stuff out so you can see whether it benefits you or not. It has for me and I am no where near where I want to be with it. The funny thing is that people all of the world have utilized these concepts, often with dramatic results, yet people just down the road will invariably say; “That won’t work around here, because ….”

I suspect that Ixy has neighbors that are sitting around watching and waiting for her experiment to fail so they can say “Told you that wouldn’t work here!” My guess is they are in for a long wait. Sounds like she has it going for her. Go Ixy.

[Author]

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