[Gabe Ayers]

Not that I want to decrease the business for any retail harness shops but since we often help folks get started and have the right equipment to be safe we keep a bunch of bits and collars around in particular. We sell them for a little more than they cost us just to provide a service to the community of interest without costing us any money. We usually just refer folks to harness makers if they are looking for a new set.

So years ago we found out who used to make the Military Show Elbow bits when we were on a trip to Holmes county and started buying them directly from them. Unfortunately they only make a few these days and I am not sure which models or styles – because all of the ones we bought this spring in an order had cute little tags on them that said – Made in China.

Yes they are cheap and fairly decent quality, but I still like the original ones made from brass that was poured and finished right in the shop in Millersburg, Ohio.

If you write them, they will send you a catalog which over the years has gotten larger and larger. The Amish are business people like everyone else and will buy cheap goods if they can find them and if they meet their needs. They don’t have a telephone, so you have to write them or go directly to the business. There address is:

Hillside Harness Hardware LTD
4205 Township Rd. 629
Millersburg, Ohio 44654

Their byline is: Distributors of:

Brass, Stainless Steel and Chrome Hardware, Bio-Plastic, Nylon, Bio-Plastic Parts, Grooming Supplies, Animal Health Products and More….

They are good to ship promptly and fair prices, but we buy as a harness shop, not as a private consumer….

As mentioned above we like the old solid brass ones, but have several solid Stainless Steel elbow bits. Most are the straight bar with the knurled side on the bar on one side and smooth on the other. We tend to use the least amount of pressure (smooth side to the animal) to achieve the sensitive level of control desired with the bit choice, but have the leverage to increase the stopping power of the bit.

I do have one of the port ones, but haven’t use it yet. I don’t recommend the chrome plated ones as the chrome always peels off eventually and then you have a common steel bit that could injure a horses mouth in the process of loosing the chrome plating. The brass bits seem to create a white slobber that lubes the bit good and they seem to be comfortable with it in their mouths.

I think an important point is to fit the bit to the animals mouth width wise. The movement in the corners is constant and the construction of the bit to not have much play in the corners keeps the bit from pinching their lips. If the bit makes their mouth sore they won’t operate with the power steering we like. Generally the 6 1/2 inch width works with our 1700 pound sized horses. They make them in 5 1/2 widths too. We tend to use the first setting of leverage on most horses, but the soft mouths one have no leverage at all. It is very nice to have the adjustment right there so you can change it in response to the horse’s attitude about going forward or response to your driving signals.

These bits work best with lines that have buckles on the ends instead of snaps. The lines go through the slots or corners on the bits very well and don’t get caught up like snaps.

Good luck with them, work’ em often, starting on a work sled, ground slide or stoneboat, whatever it is called in your region, with a reasonable load they can start easily, but not empty so they know they are doing something besides walking around with no resistance. Rest them when the bit contact, line pressure, tenison and pace feels perfect – always using whoa as a reward. It is hard to stop when everything is going perfect, but that is the time to reward them for doing what you want. Positive reinforcement.

This approach will get you to the point where whoa is their favorite command and as I have said many times before – to where they have a Park. Without a Whoa and Park, none of the other gears count.

[Gabe Ayers]

And the choir sings hallelujah…..but I intend to help make it happen faster than my remains will compost….

If you get a chance go back and read some of the older post, this is exactly what I have written and said for years now…. and the changes are coming quicker than many realize.

The value of the eco-system services provided by the forests are mostly unaccounted for at this point, but that is changing rapidly and as it does the value of quality superior natural resource management will increase in turn.
That is when our services will be paid for on a parity level with any other occupation that supports human life on this planet.

Glad you are here man…

Salute,

[Gabe Ayers]

Having known the Mischka’s – both Bob and Joe for decades now, my experience has been that they are as fair and straight up as it gets. They are as good as their word in every way.

Joe and his family have survived through hard work and persistence with this magazine and it’s accompanying cyber effort on the RH front porch despite a historically failing current economic reality and a recent Iowa flood that filled his home and office over the dining room table. He bought a magazine that to some had seemed to be peaked or beyond and is now continuing to grow as a world class publication.

They have brought modern animal power to the modern media through the Rural Heritage show on RFD-TV and have a successful business of selling magazines, books, DVD’s and videos.

Their contribution to the culture of draft animal power probably has immeasurable benefits to this cultural community of interest through an apprenticeship program free to subscribers and cyber members and who knows the value that has held and nurtured in the lives of many untold stories throughout the countryside of this planet.

There is nothing narrow minded about the Mischka’s in my experience but a great deal that is big hearted.

So not to worry Karl, they are doing fine and for the sake of this community of interest I hope they will continue to do so for years to come.

I would also bet that anyone that has something relative to farming and logging with horses, mules or oxen ~ that it will be posted on the original Front Porch on the internet.

The only thing I would say we don’t agree on is our favorite color of big horses, they like the black ones…..have for many years now…

[Gabe Ayers]

I have never seen one of these horse drawn forwarders that I thought would comfortably handle a 300 board foot hardwood log. They all seem to have light duty booms, grapples and hydraulics. A fellow at HPD a few years ago said he tried one with larger logs and collapsed the main boom. They were first developed in Scandinavia and were designed for smaller softwoods.

I bet some of these manufacturers would custom make a heavier unit with four wheel rear brakes, to help with hills, but how in the world is a horse logger practicing restorative style forestry going to afford it? Not with today’s raw log prices….

Just we will keep using the old 1974 John Deere on a 68 Chevy truck, it’s paid for…and stout.

Hey Ronnie, do they still have any of those side loaders out in western Tennessee?

[Gabe Ayers]

sorry for the unnecessary stuff here it is a cut copy paste from the email to Scott, posted here per his request…..

Guide: For my sanity and ease of editing I ask you to please follow these
> steps. Select your top two (2) choices for #2 & #3. Select your top ten
> (10) choices for #4. _Cut and paste from this message to your message for ease of organizaton.
>
>
>
> “I agree with Rick go for it I think if we start slowly and build we will be
> better able to control the content and quality!”
>
> “I agree with this.”
>
>
>
> “International Draft Animal Forestry Initiative (IDAFI)”
> “Animal Powered Logging Association of the World (APLAW)”
>
>
>
> “To facilitate the international connection between draft animal forestry
> practitioners, exchanging information, providing benefits of association
> (i.e. insurance, cooperative marketing, etc.), and advocating toward mutual
> goals.”
>
>
>
> “To serve as an official body to support collaboration, research and
> demonstration with all interest groups on the issues of sustainable forestry
> including, governmental, non governmental organizations (NGO), academic
> institutions, municipalities, private landowners and those individuals
> interested in actually doing this work.”
>
> “We need a way to rate or insure performance and praise a job well done”
>
> “To develop a network of information sharing, such as websites,
> e-newsletter, and hard-copy newsletter to support /(and promote)/ the
> international community of draft animal forestry practitioners”
>
> ”To improve opportunities for draft animal forestry practitioners to unite
> regionally, and internationally, to share information, work, markets, and
> advocacy.”
>
> develop districts- we had north west, mid west, south west, south,
> *Appalachian*, south east, north east, each district needs a director.
> (couldn’t help but add Appalachian, it was clearly an oversight on my part
> originally)
>
> ”A net work to discuss ideas, successes and failures”
>
> ”To advance an ecological perspective of forest management, based on the use
> of draft animals, and other low impact/low input strategies.”
>
> ”To improve opportunities for draft animal forestry practitioners to unite
> regionally, and internationally, to share information, work, markets, and
> advocacy.”
>
>
>
> Scott,
>
> There is much yet to added to the goals and objectives of this effort – but
> this is a good start.

> For instance we could serve as a valid group to address issues of “green
> certified” forest products,in particular to include bonus points for locally
> animal powered harvested and processed materials and have a board member > nominated to the boards of SFC, Leeds, USGBC.
>
We should clearly state our support of “worst first single tree selection”
> and other methods of silviculture that meet our objectives.
>
We could provide a speakers list on a regional international basis – for
> environmental groups, educational institutions, civic organizations, etc.
> I would add that I think the benefits versus the hassle of an official
> organization are far over rated… We spent over a year on this when
> starting up HHFF and we had a grant (Ford Foundation) specifically for that
> purpose – and it has amounted to very little actual success in the creation
> of new practitioners. New practitioners are created through anthropological
> cultural techniques or relationships. If we as a group do decide we need
> this official status HHFF exists as an umbrella to enable that approach,
> without reinventing the wheel.
>
I also reject the (other low impact) words included because it means small
> machines and not animal power. There are companies that manufacture and
> advertise this stuff that don’t need our help. Now that doesn’t reject
> forwarders and IC powered hydraulic systems, just not the skidding
> component. We know the real damage is road building and skid trail
> construction and occurs mostly from stump to landing. Since none of us are
> going to be logging in virgin forest we don’t need to build new roads but be
> wise enough on our ground skills to use what old disturbance that is already
> there and stable and this cultural approach is the only one that can do
> that. We need help with our own approach and power sources… That’s my
> story and I’m sticking to it….
>
> Good work man, let us know what’s next. I volunteer for whatever position
> (other than the head man, you’ve been drafted to that job!) to help this
> happen.
>
> It was cool to hear that so many were working on other things besides
> logging at this time of year. Our first batch of salsa is canned and we
> will slip out for some young horse handling time this evening before dark.
> Carry on sir!
>

[Gabe Ayers]

I have a couple of comments to add from our experience with training several hundred people to drive horses. First, our best team are teachers themselves in that they will react the same way each time to the same signals. My job is to teach the signals and that is impossible without the student actually driving the horses. So they do, each time we hold a private instructional course the students drive our horse by the end or middle of the course. The use the same technique we do to start, stop, back up, turn and stand. They do it with one of of us sitting beside them each time. That is why our log arches have a school bus seat on them, to seat two at a time. That experience is part of what the customer is paying for when they come to our courses. It is an opportunity to drive a world class pair of horses in the forest. It gives them something to seek out in their own teams in the future.

Yes, it takes about 15 minutes to get them back to the light touch sensitivity we normally have with them after the iffy signals of beginners, but one sure command is whoa and I can holler this from a hundred yards away and they will stop. We don’t let new people drive horses still in training.

Sell them or keep them…..Bess is right in my experience, sell them or get them off your place somehow.

In Animal science in college we were taught the first three concerns. Confirmation, procreation and disposition. I submit that in the modern times where people usually don’t work them enough to wear them out the order should be somewhat different. Disposition first, if you don’t get along with them you aren’t going to work them so they aren’t going to wear out from confirmation flaws. If you get along with them you can breed them to a better horses for improved confirmation in their offspring, if a gelding then you only have two concerns and disposition is first.

We are in a time in history where we have many more horse than people with an interest and dedication to work them, so why work an outlaw when there is a good horse languishing somewhere or being born that you can get along with.

I used to think I could work any of them and probably could and have, but that is not he way I choose to perpetuate this culture at this point.

[Gabe Ayers]

I would go with the military elbow bit, it is adjustable and you can use it as a
straight bit or with leverage if you need to adjust there forward rate of travel.
It is the only bit we use on all our horses, except a couple with egg butt snaffles that are really soft mouthed, but a draft animal can run away with anything other than a lever bit and sometimes even with those. Try them individually in an enclosed area first and then put them together after you have a feel for how they go with what you put in their mouth.

[Gabe Ayers]

Working on the details of Southern Draft Animal Days, just a month away….

Making Salsa from the many tomatoes that won’t go up canned whole….

Keeping the jobs going at the Crooked River Farm project….

Clipping pastures, cruising timber, coordinating contractors, putting electric fence around the corn patch to keep the dam coons from rioting in my front yard….they were so loud last night that it woke us up….

Everybody is working I suspect….

[Gabe Ayers]

Trucking is another remarkable difference regionally.

We don’t have a self loading tri-axle with a pulp trailer in every village in Appalachia. In fact I don’t think there are but a couple within 100 miles of our place, and they both belong to the mills. Just about everybody down here that is a small scale “gatewood” supplier of logs from NIPF’s (private land) has an old straight truck (single rear axle) that was pretty much worn out before they bought it. Of the half dozen of us working through HHFF training programs here in southwest Virginia, most are operating trucks that are older than they are.

Some do have drivers other than themselves, such as wives and girlfriends that of course have other “jobs”, like homemaking, parenting,school bus driving and anything they can do to generate income for the family household. Often the loads are delivered to the mills around the time requirements of their real jobs.

The choice of doing it this way was not a choice. We have no other way to move sawlogs or pulpwood. It is a pain in the butt to say the least. It is an expense that is probably overall cheaper that a pro rated hauling situation, but it is not a great savings. It requires that one have their own loading capacity of some sort, knuckleboom, bobcat, farm tractor or parbuckle setting.

Yet the transportation does present interesting stories of independence among the practitioners. They do get to haul logs when they can’t work in the woods and of course the trucks to other jobs for he families too. Some are flatbed dumps (ours) which of course can haul road to a haul road or landing, hay from the hay fields and many have gooseneck balls on the back for hauling the horse trailer to and from the jobs. When value adding or on site sawing is employed the trucks haul slabs to firewood customers and long length firewood out of what would have to be pulp without a firewood market. The best thing about that is that the haul is usually much shorter and to a neighbor, often elderly or low income, or both. We haul sawdust back to the barn for bedding and gravel for our own driveways, lumber to customers, beams to timber framers and the occasional odd job, like tractors and balers to a free piece of hay to make or the big Christmas tree to a large
hotel in the city, which is quite a site going downtown with a 35 foot tall white pine on the back of a straight truck.

One practitioners is a avid and skilled shade tree mechanic and has an old 67 model Chevy C60 that has had every piece of it replaced except the actual cab (it just has brazed panels and bondo). This is the justification for the junk trucks sitting on the back side of the place providing parts for these determined woodsmen. A common site is an old school bus that provides parts and a convenient shed for other stuff important to independent operation. This old chevy is several years older than it’s owner/operator – since he wasn’t born until 1972.

Then there is a certain community based interdependence that trucking cultivates. The relationship with local truckers like up north and out west, translates here to having a long term relationship with the local garage and junk yard. This is the route I personally take, since there are family businesses that have keep a truck under me for decades now. They do the repairs, upkeep, maintenance and modifications necessary as well as always have another truck available when the old one disintegrates beyond function on core levels like frames, engines and cabs failing. Buying and relying on neighbors for transportation needs is a community based approach to operation. It may not be as easy as making a phone call to the “trucker”, but it is what we have to do here to keep products moving, even at the level of production that a modern animal powered forestry business generates.

In Va. there is a status of exemption from tags and registration called “Farm Use”. This is to help farmers that produce for the public consumption the chance to operate as cheaply as possible. In recent economic times many Farm Use trucks are seen at the sawmills and as long as the wood is coming from a “leased land” situation – read sharecrop arrangement – it is as legal as hauling cabbage, tomatoes or sweet corn to the market. The trucks still have to pass DOT roadside inspection but most load them modestly and the gubment boys usually let them roll on and don’t bother them to much.

So we can talk truckers in Appalachia, but is mostly talking about ourselves… members of our families or extended families.
As we age, driving the truck is physically easier than working in the woods, but I prefer the latter, we all have to do what we can to make it work…

[Gabe Ayers]

Don,

It is not a plowing match, but a pulling contest. I have never been to a plowing match either.

[Gabe Ayers]

To simplify the situation is to see that old hickory reestablishes who is the dominant horse in the herd setting that a handler and horse are. Maybe the respect for the boss horse will allow the lesser horse to accept the boss and worry more about what he wants than any imaginary boogers out there.
It ain’t about making them afraid of you, but to respect you, just like the boss horse does in the herd setting at liberty. The boss horse doesn’t try to kill the underlings, just make them know their place.

Four year old horses are punks, even the good ones. I think about nine is when they start to develop a self identity that allows courage working alone, or just with the human handler as the other horse.

They are only horses and they can only see us as other horses. That’s why they call it being a horseman.

After thirty years of logging with horses as a primary income production, and refining the restorative forestry approach we have been overwhelmed with demand for services for many years. It just brings one to the point of only doing the best jobs from your perspective and anyone that doesn’t go along with that program brings me to saying “next”.

The BHL are doing what HHFF started over a decade ago regarding scholarships, stipends and mentor/apprentice programs. I again would suggest that anyone with the time – visit our web site and read the goals and objectives and mission statement closely. It’s all public information.

We are all still learning together, thankfully.

Anyone completely new to this culture may not understand all this, but if they keep at it – they will.

There are no easy answers, it is all hard work. Sorry for the shortness here – I am real tired at the moment after returning for a 500 mile drive doing more planning and site prep on the SDAD event. It is going to be awesome…….

I learned today that the Tennessee state record smallmouth bass was caught out of the Nolichucky River right at this campground…. lovely water…

I think Scott has it – gets it and will prevail.

More later woodsmen friends.

[Gabe Ayers]

It would seem possible it is about herd behavior or being herd bound. It is normal for a horse alone that is not very secure with their handler to be less settled, relaxed, confident and brave when not in the company of other horses.

They are flight animals so naturally their very survival is an instinctual tendency to run first and ask questions later. It would be interesting to see if his attitude was different if he had a mate along even if it was just left tied to the trailer. It takes a very brave horse to work alone in the forest and the ones that do, seem to accept their handler as another horse, which takes lots of time and a serious presence as a horse man. I think it is definitely easier with some horses than others, but it isn’t easy with any of them.

It is not the same to work one within site or familiar surroundings, as it is in a different place where they are wary of predators behind every bush, shadow, stump or tree.

I don’t think they can help it, just as they can’t help spooking when any stimulus occurs that they are not familiar with, like Simon’s stallion did and my own has done also.

I wouldn’t think following a truck up a hill with no resistance would tire a young horse enough to be relaxed or exhausted. It may be that he was just back home in familiar surroundings and relaxed by being there.

Some suggestions are: have an assistant lead the horse to and from the logs for a few rounds and see if they are made more brave by another horse (person) being in the lead. Make sure the assistant is aware of the horses frightened state and stays well ahead on loose lead line to stay out of dangers way if the horse bolts. They could carry a baton (stick) to reassure there position as a dominant one (horse).

A second suggestion (and this one may be way off the wall) is to take the bridle off and let them try it without blinders, this may not work and witness the fact that I think maybe Simon works his without blinders and it didn’t stop the stallion from wanting to leave the scene as fast as possible. What my old friend Glen French says is that this can help some horses by giving them more of a view of what is around them so they don’t freak out by what they can’t see. Fear of the unknown is universal.

Glad you didn’t get hurt and the horse survived too. Your remaining calm speaks volumes for your skill and commitment. If you work one single you will have to figure it out somehow.

It will be interesting to hear the rest of the boards thoughts. Particularly the old hands….Joel, Carl, Rick, Jimbojim, John……..we are all here to learn and share our experiences.

The story Simon tells is interesting and I hope pray his son recovers well. A stallion is usually as brave as any horse can be naturally, but they are still horses. There must be something there that is freaking all the horses out that go by. Next time you have a little spare, like maybe lunch, go to that site and set a spell and see if you can figure out what is scaring the horses at that particular spot.

On the other hand there are situations that we may never figure out about animals and that is the nature of the beast – if you hear anything different from any horse whisperers, then be skeptical, there next response will be buy my books and DVD’s or take my courses…. If they don’t humbly admit that don’t know everything there is to know about a horse then I wouldn’t think they would be good teachers to us normal human beings…. not to say they couldn’t teach allot to any of us.

[Gabe Ayers]

Scott,

I think you should cut copy and paste your story about the single horse working poorly in the larger forum under horses and see if anyone has suggestions. I would like to talk about it but not in the secret forum.

Don’t let go of the sock, lots of work to do on this potential new association.
I think everyone is on board, just they are all busy or don’t really see any need to make any further comments. Or that’s my guess anyway. You are doing great, keep it up.

[Gabe Ayers]

I don’t think there is any need to hurry Scott, enjoy the late summer activities and give everyone else on the site time to do the same.

We have no deadlines to meet and only lifelines to cast into the sea or forests of humanity.

It is appropriate that those of us that have our entire lives immersed into this culture have a sense of urgency proportionate to our personal experiences. Patience is a virtue and being on tree life time scale would be to our benefit again.

Just a suggestion and some thoughts. This is a wonderful effort.

[Gabe Ayers]

How do folks respond to the USDA Census of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service? The one that has the YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW written on the front of the envelope. I haven’t bothered this year and have gotten a couple of messages on the phone about the “organic agriculture” survey and haven’t actually talked to anyone about it as they always call during the working day. If I thought this stuff would do anything to help us maintain the right to farm I would be right on it, but it is hard to see that with the current industry developing around information gathering under the cloak of food safety.

Nobody offers to pay for your time to fill out these things, they just suggest it is for your own good….and we were taught to worry about communism and that the Nazi’s were the most evil people in history….

Don’t respond to this if you are worried about being put on a list by USDA….
they may be watching, listening or looking for terrorist… and we ain’t terrorist, just freedom loving Americans.

Migrant seasonal workers, nomadic tribes and gypsies are seen as a problem by many governments…. when they are actually probably important assets to agricultural society and economy…

Disclaimer – This is a private personal posting and not a position of HHFF – despite the canned signature below.

[Author]

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