[back-forty]

Don,
I was looking at the photos that you have posted of your pto cart with the Honda engine and it appears that the clutch mechanism is simply moving the pto shaft itself via a lever as opposed to a tensioner/idler pulley. Is this correct? I am working on installing a 20 hp Honda onto my pioneer forecart this winter and was planning to have the unit removable and attach to two of the seat davits that are on the cart. Any additional information that you would be willing to provide on the pulley sizes and the clutch system would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[back-forty]

I use a old Minnesota 4 wheel spreader on fairly hilly land with a team of two. I would agree with George that a 110 should work fine. I tend to set the apron speed low and spread a thin layer. Better coverage on my field and easier on the spreader and the team and if needed you can always load lighter if needed.

[back-forty]

Peyton,
We need to be mindful that when we start doing math calculations comparing work output for tractors versus horses that we are comparing machines to animals. I have made the mistake of doing calculations of width of equipment and speed like I am sure most of us have and then comparing the output of my team to a tractor but unlike the tractor which we can just set the throttle and go horses are more like you and me, they need frequent rest stops, are subject to weather conditions and so on. I have a great team of mares, hard working honest girls but I have seen days when it is 90 plus degrees and even the normally easy job of racking hay taxes them.

Like Don said for me the math is easy for me, I look forward to calling in my team for a day well spent with then and minimize the use of my tractor. There are I will point out a number of jobs my team excels at and in my opinion are superior to a tractor. I feed all of my hay to the cattle and horses on my farm with the girls using simple skids to haul the hay. I can stop the team at the gate open it and after the team comes on though shut the gate and walk over pick up the lines and continue on. With a tractor not only do I burn a good deal of unnecessary fuel but I have to get of the tractor to open the gate attempt to get back on the tractor, drive thru the gate, get back down and close the gate before my cows make a quick exit. A couple of my cows in particular seem to find great sport in this while I do not find it all that amusing.
When I use a tractor I often find myself in a mindset of confrontation. It seems that I am either doing battle with the machine itself, granted it is an old tractor and has seen its better days, or if the tractor is working as it should I often find myself being sucked into a confrontational approach with my land, an even worse situation. The tractor seems to become this tool to be used to force the work to proceed on my time line rather than natures. Whereas my team fosters a atmosphere of cooperation, Karla and Fancy are good hard workers but they do not respond well to a bad attitude on my part. There have been times that I have noticed when I approach the day with a poor attitude they will call me on it most of the time. They provide a wakeup call and check and balance that the tractor simply does not provide.

I am all for the reduction of the use of fossil fuels and honestly believe that draft horses are a very viable option but to be successful I really think we need to enjoy working with them. I can intensely dislike even at time hate my tractor and still accomplish the needed work allabit unhappily but I do not think I would have lasted very long with my team it was not a labor of love.

[back-forty]

Don,
Thanks for the input, I was estimating 8 to 10hp as well but your point that while that may work for normal conditions it would be frustrating to not be able to handle wet rained on hay, something I am all to familiar with these past couple of years. Few more horse power is a good idea.
I also have a call into Maynard at I&J for a catalog on his equipment. I would love to have get one of the ground drive forecarts but really need a new shed next year for hay storage and has I already have the spare cart adding an engine is a lot more cost feasible at this time.

Carl,
I agree that 540 rpm on the PTO is the norm and if the tedder was behind a tractor and moving at typical ground speeds for a tractor the higher rpm is necessary but at the typical ground speed of my team I anticipate needing to slow down the tedder so the reel speed more matches my ground speed.

Pretty hilly on my place in central MN for a baler and wagon and really do not like baling on the ground these days, I am afraid I am kind of stuck with using the tractor for this job.

[back-forty]

The 6foot Van Brunt drill that I use is a single disc opener model on steel wheels and I do have hills on my farm. I also have a custom made 4foot grain drill with the grass seeder that I will pull a old 44inch brillion type cultipacker behind and this combination pulls a little harder than the 6 foot drill alone and is great plenty for my team.
The 4 foot drill was made from a 8foot model that had the rope activated clutch lift mechanism while the 6 foot is a manual lever lift, two levers for each half of the drill. I really like the mechanical lift option but the manual model has easier and better tongue angle adjustment and the levers allow for easy adjustment on the depth of planting.

[back-forty]

I use a 6 ft grain drill to plant about 20 acres per year and would not go any bigger than that with a team.

[back-forty]

I use a 4 bar JD side delivery rake with a dolly wheel and a 5 wheel Farmhand wheel rake, both hocked to my forecart. In the alfalfa I like the wheel rake, with the slow ground speed of my horses there is very little leaf loss. In heavy canary meadow hay I find the J.D. rake less prone to plugging. As most every one else is saying I try to rake only hay dry enough for baling.

[back-forty]

Looks like the I&J mower? High on my wishlist but unfortunately not within my budget.

[back-forty]

I mostly use mine for mowing along the fence lines on my lower meadow pastures so the option to offset the tongue on the swisher trail mower works well. I have also used it to clip pastures. You defineately need some type of skirting on the front to protect the horses. I have also used a 60 inch swisher finishing mower to clip pastures, a cleaner cut on the grass and I am considering changing the tires to a larger diameter to achieve a higher stubble length.

[back-forty]

It was already mentioned earlier in this thread but I would also encourage you to put up a outdoor padock of some sort and let the horses be outside as much as possible. I live in central Minnesota and even witht the winters here my horses are outside the vast majority of the time. They need a good wind break and to be kept dry other than that they do fine and are much more content out of doors. Ventilation or lack there of and resulting humidity in the barn are more detrimental to their health than being outdoors.

[back-forty]

I was hauling the roundbales along the shoulder of a snow packed township road so did not have deep snow conditions like you might have logging. When I used a heavy bridle chain on both runners on the skid they bit thru the snow pack to the grravel and the team ended up pulling harder on the downhill with chains than on the level without the chains. I was using a 6 foot long skid frame hooked the behind the forecart so bale could run up on cart without the use of the chains. I may simply make up some form of rigid hitch between cart and skid to utilize braking with the pole rather than have different bridle chains dependant on the conditions. I find that the connector links for rear tractor tire chains that I can buy at the local farm supply store work well for the bridle chains as they can be released with the chain still under tension and only cost about $7 each.

[back-forty]

What size of link is typically used in the bridle chains? I was hauling appoximately #1500 roundbales recently with my team and on the downslope used a chain on each runner of the slid. With a chain on each runner the team actually had to pull the load downhill so on the next load I used only one chain and it worked better but with only one chain there is no redundancy if something happens to that chain. I am thinking about making up another set of chains with smaller links to get the same braking from 2 smaller chains that I get from one.

[back-forty]

I have a molly mule, my first. I agree that she seems to need a routine. If I handle her every day she is at the gate and a pleasure to have a round. If I get lazy and just toss the hay over the fence into the feeder with out going in the the pen to spend a few mintues with her her attitued becomes more indifferent. I guess I can not blame her, from her viewpoint if I did not have the time to go to her to say hi one day why should I excpet her to behave differntly to me the next.

[back-forty]

Sickle mowers if in good condition will work fine for the first cutting but if you do not havest off the cut material and leave it lay they are very prone to the second cuttings when attempting to cut the new regrowth and the earlier cut vegitation that is laying down.

I use a 44inch rough cut swisher trail mower that I pull behind the forecart. The engine and blade noise are significant so you need to ease the team into it. It is also difficult to reach the disengaement control on the mower so I keep a rope tied to the hitch pin so that I can pull the pin and disconnect the mower from the cart if needed. I have not had to do so but would not want to find myself in a situation with a neverous team in front of me and a brush mower running at full speed behind me.

[back-forty]

I use a 4 wheel farmhand rake hithced to the forecart and it works well. I was concerned that at the slow speed the wheel rake might not work as well as it should but it does a good job even in heavy canary grass hay.

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