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hi Thea123, welcome!

interesting insight in behaviour of cattle when facing their dead kin. i knew cattle could grieve but i didn’t know they mourn the dead! and i’m pretty sure they mourned the dead! i knew elephants mourn their dead not only after immediate death, but also years later. i wonder if the cows will remember after a year.

“Is it okay for cattle to eat only dry, dead, brown, grasses all summer in California? Do they need hay?”
well, i guess they could survive, depending on the quantity of the grass, but i don’t think they can fatten on it. historically, some cattle breeds were held in similar conditions without deteriorating condition. it depends a lot on local conditions, keep some hay just in case.

“What happens to a cow when her calf dies and she is full of milk?”
that depends on the breed. beef breeds, i think, should not develop serious problems when a calf dies, because they have milk production similar to wild cattle, which means they produce only enough milk to nurse a calf. i red in a magazine that primitive cattle, notably my country’s busha cattle, do not get udder inflamation when not milked. their milk production is similar to beef cattle.
in diary cows, not milking is a no-no.

[bivol]

hi!

sorry about the size of the picture!

anyway, here are a few videos about ox riding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wrdCO9qQkU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7YJSUMU504&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJpoCDsxBZ4

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yes i encouraged people to write everything they could and knew about. i forgot i wrote that. sorry!

personally i newer saw the nova scotian mechanism of adjustment of angle of draft, and honestly i didn’t understand it when it was explained.

but looking at various other head yoke designs, i noticed no other yoke has a system of control in the literal sence of work. it is the very design of the yoke that regulates the angle.

look at the pictures.

[IMG]http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-16721188.jpg?size=67&uid={D6D5DEEF-3B6A-45BC-9037-0BAEB03D93AB}[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/72256560@N00/88390593/sizes/o/[/IMG]

the oxen regulate the line of draft themselves, as the yoke is “balanced”, the point of draft is level to the point of spine where the neck meets the skull.

i noticed that (maybe it’s obvious, but…) oxen pulling with a head yoke in optimal yoke design always keep their heads in 90 degrees to the chain or tongue.

[bivol]

hi everyone!

concerning the first yoke, i think it has a few disadvantages:
1. the bows have a mechanism in the middle, and it could pinch the animal’s dewlap.
2. the hitch point it too high, causing the yoke to likely go up the neck and choke. even if you use the hooks on the bows to lower it, chains would still rub against the animal’s shoulders.
3. it has 3 peaces, and is as complicated to construct as the 3-pad collar, but not nearly as effective.

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hi!

for light draft you should use cows. a shorthorn cow would be ideal. they are dual purpose breed, so they have good muscling, give milk, but not so much you don’ know what to do with it. and if she gives too much, get an extra calf.
cows have numerous advantages over oxen, given they do mostly light work and have good feeding.
first, you get milk (to drink, make cheese, nurse a calf), calf (to eat, sell, or turn into a working cow or ox), and meat, when they grow old. and ofcourse, work.
i heard cows are easier to train than oxen.
but the biggest advantage is that a cow makes her own replacement, so a long useful working life is not that important.

good luck!

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vicki said:[HTML] One advantage of the neck yoke is that, as long as the animal has the proper neck size, it can be put into the yoke; so animals can be quickly switched off or paired up as necessary–a plus if an animal goes lame or dies, or on extended journeys like the great westward migration on the Oregon Trail, or for training a green animal alongside an experienced one.

In contrast, head yokes which have horn boxes need to be fit to the specific animal–no biggie for someone like my friend Bud, but it takes some time and tools, and needs to be modified as the horns grow; and the yoke is usually not reusable on different cattle. These require head pads and straps–usually leather but perhaps felt, but not readily available in the North American frontier, or in some parts of the world. Same with collar or pad systems.
[/HTML]

i believe you are looking at the head yoke issue through the nova scotian eyes. please look at what i wrote in the first post on thread. i said all but nova scotian yoke:rolleyes:

nova scotian head make for, after my opinion, less than o,1% of the total number of head yokes in the world.
other specifically carved yokes include: in france, oxen are still, though in small number, used for show and sometimes for work. there, the majority of cattle are harnessed in head yoke,and of that small number only a fraction works in a specifically carved yoke. after my opinion 20 yoke of oxen is overestimated.
others include austria, or germany. the head yoke was banned there in the 20′, and is today a rarity to see. actually, i’ve seen only once a yoke that could be a specifically carved yoke. maybe 5 yoke.

ALL OTHER head yokes in the world are NOT specifically made for a single team. that means all oxen in peru, nicaragua, brazil, mexico, chile, and cuba,…
there the oxen are numerous, and used daily for tillage and transport.

and if you ask if it’s possible for oxen to work in a non-custom made yoke, just look at cuba. oxen are there the backbone of land tillage, and they do what it takes.
although they do everywhere.

the head yoke i meant was of either cuban or chilean design.
with cuban or chilean yoke various animals can be yoked together need be or for training the green one. only conditions are that the animals are aproximatelly the same size and have strong horns.

as for pads and straps, the material can vary. one can make a pad from many materials, for example from straw filled cloth or folded cloth, or palm leaves. as for straps, they can be of naylon, or rope. both work.

so, i don’t see any disadvantages to the head yoke in your reply.

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well i kinda missed the point. the dam part took too much space. what i thought to be new and revolutionary was the use of onager-donkey hybrid as sire. i think using it to a fjord mare could produce even tougher, spirited mule.
back in the days of ancient greece when horses and donks were tougher than today one mule is said to have lived 80 years. this should give you an idea where i’m aiming.

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some pictures couldn’t upload. so here is the propeller shaft transmission system

use this system to connect the rotary unit to the generator if you decide to have your generator near but not in the unit itself.

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hi deborah!

using animal power to drive various devices is nothing new. irrigation pumps or mills are old devices of man. and it is good to see someone who is interested in producing power with oxen.

honestly, i’m afraid i didn’t quite understand what you were trying to say. you have a winch in the barn and you want to pull some load up with a team and then release it and coupled to the generator it would produce electricity.

well, guess it does work, and for a school project it’s enough, but it looks makeshift to me, and if you intend to use it aside of your project demo, i’d advise you to pick another design.

most of animal powered machines is rotary based, means the animals walk in circles around the device. in case of an electricity generator the actual generator doesn’t have to be in the middle of the rotary.

here’s a page that could help
http://www.chakra.org/living/simpDec11_02.html

you can do something like this:

the idea i like about this mill is that the beam which the animal pulls is low on the ground, so there is no need to build costly supporting structure. you’ll get the idea from the picture.

in the middle there are only gears connected to the propeller shaft near the ground which leads to the actual generator nearby but out of the walking circle of the animals.

this is a shaft drivel bicycle. it has a cardan, or propeller shaft, to transmit power from the pedals to the wheel. use the same system to transport power from the center of the turn of the animals away to the nearby generators. the cardan shaft should be near the ground, the oxen will step over it. don’t think they’ll mind.

about yoking: i guess your oxen work in pair. retraining them to work alone could take time and effort. it is perfectly alright to use them as a pair, just tie the yoke with a rope to the center of the beam so they do not have to constantly pull in towards the center. the rope prevents them to walk in a straight line and keeps them on track. this is absolutely necessary. see the picture below to get the idea.

or you can put the generator next to the center.

this is an ox powered generator i googled up. the basic design is good, although a beam with a counterweight would help. you can see the gears which power the generator. with little extra labor you could get a permanent power unit.

and that’s bout it. i hope i could help!

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here is a link from a camel forum describing the vertisality and endurance of army camels serving in us army in 1850’s . it is stated that they endure hardships in work, weather and feed far better than horses and mules, who don’t perform as well even if fed grain. camels are far stronger than mules, biggest carrying up to 1000 pounds. they are also fast. what suprised me the most was that their feet (camels can’t be shod) held up even on hard roads.

anyway read and enjoy!

http://camelphotos.com/trainer/viewtopic.php?t=17

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olo6lnwOj9o

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if you want to learn to drive oxen from behind this topic could be

helpfulhttp://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=777

[bivol]

hi!

also, a thought on head yoke… does it cause frustration to oxen when they can’t move their head? for example you can’t let them stand an hour in the village…:(
that’s the only real drawback i can think of when comparing these two types. other drawbacks originate in choice of cattle.
i’d certainly use the head yoke on hilly ground rather than neck yoke.

working in head yoke have more natural body position than oxen in neck yoke… see below…

[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/interchangeableparts/2811921312/sizes/l/[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlehman/356442884/sizes/l/[/IMG]

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“after looking at pictures and reading the breeds description I’m fairly certain that milking devon and the German Rotes Höhenvieh (Red Low Mountain Range Cattle – a not very proper term to translate the mountainous regions in the middle of Germany) share a common ancestry.”

yes that’s absolutelly true… they both belong to the group of breeds i call “celtic cattle”. my guess is that they were cattle of celts, who once inhabited british isles and germany and france. cattle, being valuable, survived the demise of their masters.

they are medium to small in size, mono-coloured, usually red or black. you could also mention the salers, dexter, keltenvieh…

actually i was going to make a thread on cattle breeds….

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@Howie 5241 wrote:

P.S. If you want the best you should have bought a pair of Milking Devon calves.

well, milking devons are not for everyone, especially if the teamster has little experience.

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