Forum Replies Created
- AuthorPosts
Brad Johnson
ParticipantI just recently updated my horse expenses on a daily and annual basis, and my team is costing me $3.25/day. That includes 400 bales of hay, grain for the year, one vet visit for coggins/teeth/vaccinations, and shoeing supplies (I do my own). At that cost, the logging I do generates $40-50,000 a year in gross income. The net is considerably lower, and is tied into the other enterprises on our small farm (small scale livestock, sheep shearing, and workshops). That amount does not include infrastructure costs such as harness replacement, equipment repairs, but these costs usually do not amount to much as I do much myself or can get the work done at a reasonable price. The place that costs really get you is larger equipment buys like truck and trailer. Of course, I use the truck and trailer for many other purposes, such as moving farm livestock and equipment, but they are costly nonetheless.
Marketing wood products I produce in the woods has not been difficult lately. Hard and softwood pries have been up this year, as has firewood. I do not process any firewood, except for our house, but it has been selling here for $1200-1400 a load (8 cords). I pay $225 a load to truck it, so the margin on it is good. I can move at least 2-3 cords a day on my own (more when we both are in the woods with teams and tractor), depending on the skid distance, wood size, and ground conditions. That said, last year Bob and I moved about 450-500,000 bf of logs and firewood, but only about 100 cords of that was firewood (and still less pulp – just three loads).
I agree that the silviculture I am promoting on the ground is the most important part of my work, and it is what gets us the jobs in many cases. We absolutely cannot compete with mechanized guys in terms of cost or efficiency, but landowners with a long term perspective stand to gain significantly over time as our work promotes future value as well as ecological goals in their woods. We do use two teams of horses as well as small tractor with a winch, and the addition of the tractor makes us far more profitable. Also, it allows us to use the best tool for the job, whether it is working off the stump for stems that are hard to reach with the horses, forwarding over longer distances, or piling wood on the landing. I estimate that on some jobs I spend about 20% of my total time handling logs on the landing, and the tractor is perfect for that job. I have heard it said more than once by different folks that every animal logger should have a small piece of machinery, and I agree.
-BradParticipantDo you have a drag harrow? I like to train horses with a loose hitch on drag in pasture. It is safe and good, steady draft. Also is good conditioning for pasture this time of year, especially if you have spread manure first.
-BradParticipantI second Rich’s idea there – Pete would the one to check with. I think you would be able to bring your single or team this year!
-BradParticipantThis is a super intro to working with animals and small machinery in the woods. I started as a student in this program in 2000 and have been teaching there since. The instructors are great teachers and students bring all sorts of interests and experiences. And, you won’t find a more affordable workshop given what you learn and the incredible food!
-BradParticipantI have a DAPNet hook as well, and I will be putting some logs on it this coming week. I like the design overall, though did have the same question as Carl about having the pull off set to one side or the other. Also, I think both bolts ought to be grade 8 bolts, particularly for use with a team on larger sticks. I really like the handle.
-BradParticipantI am in Vermont, not Wisconsin, a ways from you.
-BradParticipantGeorge, Donn, et al,
Great conversation here. I agree with George that in the described situation a butt rope might have been helpful, along with the good reaction of the teamster and corresponding reaction (or not) from the horses involved. I think that this chat over the butt ropes gets at a larger issue, which when do we utilize a particular tool with our horses that can help aid our relationship with and reaction to them when working? Further, I think it might be pointed out that the complaints aimed at such a tool might be countered with the fact that while in a pulling competition in a ring a butt rope is frowned upon, in a real world, everyday working situation the aim of the task is very different. I strive to get the job done as safely and as efficiently as possible, and if a butt rope helps me do that then I will use it. My goal is not to win some scoot competition around cones, it is be a productive and efficient teamster with my horses. That is not to say that I disagree with Donn and others over the point that a well trained team may not need the aid, but I find that particular “frowning” to be a little pointless. To take it a step further, I could train my team to walk the skid trail with wood in tow without using lines. However, I choose to use lines in the woods, as do most other teamsters, as that tool is useful for many reasons. In short, my decisions on these matters will be made based on the team I have and my skill with them, to be as safe and productive as possible. If those at the fair want to frown on that, let them frown!
-BradParticipantI have been very pleased with pricing and scale on the last few loads, particularly the hardwood. Hemlock still is so hard to effectively market here in VT. Yes, if you have perfect post and beam material then it is worth it, but the smaller logs are not paying well at the moment. It is too bad, as there is so much hemlock in some of the lots I work on…
-BradParticipantI am also a big fan of a butt rope, used everyday for work. Most of my time is spent in the woods, and I really like having the horses connected at the rear end. To be sure, it is useful safety measure, but I think it also improves the working efficient of most teams. When you are in the woods, in loose rigging, backing up over and over and over again during the course of a working day, every bit of time and hassle saved really adds up. I also leave it on when the horses are on the arch or bobsled, as it is just part of our routine together. I have had folks ask me why I bother using one, as my team backs up well and perhaps does not need the extra strap, but I continue to use it and always will. When I finally come up with my perfect team maybe I will abandon it, but I think that time is a long ways off. My horses are probable thinking it will be a long time before they have the perfect teamster as well!
-BradParticipantMark-
At the recommendation of a farrier friend, just ground down the hoof side of the shoe where it lies over the soft spot where the abscess was, so that the shoe does not put any pressure on that sensitive tissue until it hardens again. This also allows me to get he Banixx into that spot with the shoe on, without having to use the soak bag. May not be the ideal solution, but so far so good…
-BradParticipantAfter a week or so off from work, my gelding is all set with abscess. We opened up the abscess, releasing a bunch of puss and blood. He was putting weight back on it within 48 hours. Soaked each day, 2-3x a day with epsom salt and Banixx inside a large animal IV bag (they make great hoof soak bags). Infection is totally gone and tissue is hardening up nicely. I put his shoe back on to keep pressure off that spot, with shoe relieved with angle grinder. I think that will do it for now. Thanks to one and all for suggestions, as I am sure I will run into this again in the future!
-BradParticipantGeorge-
I am looking for a good hemlock market. Can you give me more details? Thanks.
-BradParticipantJesse-
I am primarily logging with my horses, and we always night graze, with fewer bugs and cooler temps. This limits the amount of forage they can consume, keeping them in good working shape. In my experience most folks allow too much access to grass for the horses, and as a result the have fat horses. When we did grow veggies, we used the same schedule, except the horse was in a tie stall during the day and harnessed for garden work from there. What part of the routine chews up that much time?
-BradParticipantEd and others-
I have had similar experiences both with my own team as well as with a team that I am helping to train with a landowner whose lot I am working. When I first got my gelding Bob, he was a total handful. His partner at the time, Pete, was steady and level headed in all situation, but Bob would rear up, paw the ground, and was always on the bit and out front with a load on. In fact, for the first month I had Bob I thought maybe I had made a bad purchase with that horse. I put both horses on Liverpool bits with chains, running Pete’s lines on the bit ring and Bob’s down the curb so he get more direction, and that has made all the difference in the world. Three years later, Bob now works in the bit ring with no problems. I think the success I have had with him is likely a combination of increased bit pressure from the bit and chain as well as more relationship with me, but the results are startling when I think back to where we started. I know some folks are totally against using a curbed bit, but I really think when they are used properly they can be a huge help. Some horses just need the additional pressure to work well. Bob now has a mare as his running mate, and they do well together, but I still use the surged bits so that when I need more pressure I can use it effectively. Also, Carl Russell helped me adjust he length of my check lines, which also made a positive difference for my team, especially with Bob. The team that I am training has a similar situation, with an older mare who is very headstrong, and a younger mare who has a very soft mouth. Again, the curbed bits have allowed us to give the right amount of direction to each horse, with some good results. Driving a machine in the woods could never be this interesting!!
-BradParticipantCarl-
I know that around here some foresters are recommending that in hardwood stands you leave the slash and top wood unchopped. The theory is that this strategy does not allow deer to browse the small seedlings as easily, sheltering seedling and increasing regeneration. Might be helpful in your case…
-Brad- AuthorPosts